HMS Vanguard by RMC - FINISHED - Amati/Victory Models - scale 1:72

[RMC]

Well Jose, reasonably well so now I am glad to have done it, but it was all a bit of a pain. Cutting the material accurately was time-consuming and quite difficult.

[Kevin]

Lovely work and great photo's

[RMC]

Thanks very much for the encouragement Kevin.

[RMC]

The cross trees are now fitted. The photo shows the top gallant masts dry-fitted.  The sheaves and the blocks are fitted to the top masts where necessary, and this was a mistake.  The shrouds have to be fitted over the cross trees and the sheaves and the blocks already fitted make things difficult.  Moreover the sheaves were fitted accurately according to the plans, which does not leave enough room to fit the shrouds and the stays. Had I shifted the sheaves up about 3mm (possible to do) there really wouldn't have been a problem.

 

This is progress to date. The more I see how large the it is, the more I have no idea what to do with the damn thing when (if) it's finished.

 

 

Below are a couple of the cross trees fitted with sheaves and blocks. The gap between the bottom of the sheaves and the cross trees is 3 or 4mm.  Unfortunately six loops of shrouds (1mm thread is specified) have to fit there, as well as the stays. I am using fractionally thinner Syren thread (0.86mm but I am serving it - which will make it close enough to 1mm. I guess it will turn out in the end.

 

 

 

There is a bit of good news though - the ratlines for the lower masts are finished.

Edited July 27, 2016 by RMC

[Jdieck]

I think the netting worth the pain Bob.

On the sheaves, I installed them higher but had to install the blocks on eyelets rather than tied around the mast. That is giving me good room for the shrouds and stays.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Jdieck

[RMC]

I wish I had had your foresight Jose. Regarding the netting, by the time I was doing the third one I had almost gotten the hang of it. Had I to do it again, I would do a far better job. Too late now .....

[RMC]

Progress has been made on the topmast shrouds. I have gradually found a fairly easy way to space the dead eyes which had caused me quite a bit of trouble. The following may help others who have also found difficulty.

 

First, often when I inserted brass wire spacers through the upper holes in the dead eyes, the wire would fall out at the crucial time. It's very frustrating. Now I use plastic covering of copper electrical wire as a stopper.  It fits perfectly and solves that problem.

 

 

Second, in making any adjustments, the deadeye tends to rotate, so that the holes are in the wrong position. A piece of wire bent so that it will go through the two lower holes enables you to twist the deadeye to the correct position. Once that is done I use a a pair of spring tweezers to pinch the two shrouds above the deadeye ready to knot them together.

 

Incidentally, the quality of many the deadeyes supplied is quite poor. The holes are all over the place: about a quarter are unusable: and about half are just adequate.

 

 

 

 

Here is a set ready to take the lanyards.  (I have made slight adjustments to these since taking the photo.)

 

Edited July 30, 2016 by RMC

[RMC]

The lanyards for the deadeyes on the fore topmast are now essentially done.  I will not finally tie them off for a few days to let every thing settle down. As well,some adjustments may be needed once the shrouds for the main and mizzen topmasts are done. While quite time-consuming, the process has gone smoothly.  The method described in my previous post has worked well, though in writing this of course, I'm asking for trouble.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2016 by RMC

[RMC]

The lanyards for the fore topmast deadeyes are now tied off. They have come out fairly well.

 

 

 

The shrouds for the main topmast are complete. I decided that I would cut off the thread for the ten lanyards all in one go.  This was not a good idea. Somehow I stuffed up the measurement and cut them all off about 15mm too short. I still may be able to use them, but tying them off will not be easy at best.  The extra 15mill would make all the difference. I am loath to discard the thread as I am running a little low on that particular Syren thread and getting some more will take 2 or 3 weeks.

Here are the main topmast shrouds in the works.

 

 

Edited August 10, 2016 by RMC

[RMC]

Progress has been made on the top mizzen shrouds. The dead eyes are quite small, and as a consequence the job has proven to be rather fiddly. The last set of lanyards refused to behave and it took me as long to tie them off as it did the other three sets combined.  Once that was done, one of the other sets of shrouds became unacceptably limp and needed to be redone. I did not rejoice. Incidentally, the only way to make the Syren thread stay in place while tying the lanyards is to make it soaking wet.

 

Here are some of the steps towards completion.

 

This looks a bit like a dog's breakfast, but it does work.

 

 

 

 

I have finally tied off the lanyards and am waiting for the glue to dry on the knots.

 

While waiting, I decided to see if I could do anything to improve on the stun sail boom irons provided in the kit. Like Arthur (aew) I think they are not really satisfactory. Unlike Arthur, soldering is a completely alien concept to me. I bought a length of 2mm brass strip to play with. Here are the results. Nothing has yet been glued, so comments/suggestions are very welcome.

 

This is one of the irons from the kit. The hole for the boom appears to be far too large. (The yard has not yet been touched up.)

 

This is one of my experiments. I used a pair of round nosed pliers, a hand held vise, and a fairly fine file.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2016 by RMC

[RMC]

Thanks Arthur, I'll give it a try.

[RMC]

Help needed - top gallant shrouds.

 

I am having difficulty finding the appropriate way to attach the shrouds to the top gallant masts.

 

 

One source suggests they are tied on using clove hitches which seems odd - or are they attached in the same way as all the other shrouds?

 

An added problem is that the holes provided for the shrouds in the cross trees are too small for the required 0.5mm thread. I did not have the foresight to check before mounting the cross trees to the masts. The Syren thread I am using is supposed to be 0.45mm and that did not fit through either. All of this necessitated enlarging the holes to 0.6mm while perched up a small ladder so that I could see what I was doing.   This is not recommended.

 

For those not at this stage - check the holes in the cross trees BEFORE you attach them to the masts!

Edited August 23, 2016 by RMC

[RMC]

The stun sail boom irons look as if they will come out surprisingly well. I have only done the irons for the main yard so far, but so far so good. (This is, of course, the kiss of death.)  I have put dummy hinges on as Arthur suggested, following as best I can the illustration shown in Petersson.

 

I first blackened the brass then used gel CA to stick on the hinges for both irons (copper electrical wire (approx.0.75mm)) and for the inboard irons a clasp (a flat piece of brass strip recovered from waste from the kit's brass etchings). It wasn't possible to fit a clasp to the outboard irons.

 

In gluing the fittings to the irons it was best to cut off a piece of wire/strip longer than necessary - it makes it easier to position it. Then once the glue is set, cut off the surplus.

 

 

Here is how they turned out.

 

 

PS: I would be grateful for advice regarding the shrouds mentioned in my previous post.

Edited August 26, 2016 by RMC

[AON]

this is from Rigging Period Ships by  Lennarth Petersson, Chatham Publishing, 2000 

[Jeff-E]

Hi ,

 

Fantastic build. With regard to your question about the topgallant shrouds according to Longridge and I quote "the topgallant shrouds are of 4-in rope on the fore and main mast, and of 21/2-in rope on the mizzen. the mizzen has two shrouds and the other masts have three. The first pair is doubled over in the usual manner, the third shroud goes over the mast head with an eye splice."

 

I know this is for the 'Victory' but should be the same for this ship

 

Hope this helps

[RMC]

Thanks very much Jeff - it solves the problem for me.

 

Alan: I looked at the illustration in Petersson but it isn't very clear - and I had some conflicting advice.

[AON]

FYI - Anatomy of the 74 Gun Ship Bellona by Conway , page 96, plate 12, agrees with the rope sizes for the Victory.

See attached image

 

The only other reference I can find for the Topgallant Shroud connection to the mast is for American Schooners date early 1800's and they are similar to the Topmast Shrouds.  There is a step in the diameter of the mast creating a shelf that acts as the stopper so they do not slide down.

 

I wonder if all ships with this rigging were similar?

[RMC]

Alan: I certainly hope so.

 

Fortunately the top gallant masts are only dry fitted at the moment so that I can attach the shrouds off the model without too much difficulty. Had they been finally fitted (and I was just lucky I hadn't) it would have been fairly difficult and rather nerve wracking to do it.  Thanks for taking the trouble to help.

[AON]

image is the one mentioned above

from: Rigging Period Fore-and-aft Craft by Lennarth Petersson, Chatham Publishing, London, 2007

pg 81

American schooners

[RMC]

Allan: My Petersson is the 'Rigging Model Ships' 2000. It doesn't have this illustration.  Thanks again.

[RMC]

While doing my best to avoid tying ratlines I finished off the hand ropes on the bowsprit.  I was concerned to get the same tension on both ropes and came up with the following solution.  I'm sure it has occurred to others,but perhaps this may help.

 

First a loop was tied to the thread that would hang down from the fore stay.

 

 

Thread was then tied (two half hitches) to one of the hand ropes and threaded through the loop. It was then tied to the other rope. The hanging thread was then tied to the fore stay providing  the appropriate tension to both the hand ropes. The loop enables the adjustment of the tension of the thread so that it is the same for both hand ropes.

 

 

On the painful subject of ratlines, here is progess on the fore topmast shrouds.

 

The top gallant shrouds shrouds are also in the works. I have fitted the shrouds to the fore top gallant mast (this was done off the model). I intend to drop them through the holes provided in the cross trees, and to finally make them off below the dead eyes on the tops. (The top gallant mast in the following photos is dry-fitted.)  

 

Is there a better way of doing all of this? Suggestions very welcome.

 

 

Edited September 2, 2016 by RMC

[glbarlow]

Where did you find the curved pieces for the cap rails?  I cannot locate them in my kit.

[RMC]

Do you mean parts 99, 100 and 101 - the forecastle capping rails? If so, they are on 1.5mm ply sheet 2412, the one with the stern facia for Elephant/ Bellerophon.

[glbarlow]

Referring to the small, short curved pieces that connect the longer rails where the hull changes heights.  I see them on your model but can't find them.  It seems that like the larger curved piece connecting the poop deck rail to the deck they would have to be on a 5mm sheet but I don't see them, nor are they numbered on the plans.

 

Thanks for replying, you have a great model.

Edited September 4, 2016 by Glenn

[RMC]

Glenn: I think you mean part 180 - the poop rail end pattern. It's on 5mm walnut sheet 2421/B.

 

Arthur: If you can spare the time would you send me a copy please? I'm afraid my approach to the build has been more hindsight the foresight and it's come back to bite me more than once. There are still some bits and pieces that are yet to be attached and your list would still be useful.

 

You may still have my email address.  If not I'll PM you.

[glbarlow]

No, not part 180. I have the poop rail end. Refererring to the cap rail itself. It steps down just where that rail handle ends, the drop is curved. And about ¾ inch from top to bottom. I thought it easier to attach a photo. I don't know why it's upside down, lol.

 

Thanks again for the help

[glbarlow]

Never mind - I finally found in your log that you created that by bending some 1x5mm board.  It just seems surprising to me they'd create such an obvious curve on the model and not provide a part to fit it.  And as significantly the neither manual included with the model nor the plans ever say or show anything about it.  My Pegasus had a similar height shift on the hull and there was a part for it.

 

Not cool Chris Watten and Amati, not cool

 

So now I know I need to make something.  Thanks for the trouble...

[RMC]

Arthur: It's in the PM. Thanks again.

[RMC]

The ratlines for the fore and main topmast shrouds are now finished. Those for the mizzen are still to be done.   At this stage I think I will put on the top gallant masts for the fore and the main. All the related rigging for them has been prepared, and doing the mizzen ratlines doesn't bear thinking about at the moment. I will be going away for a while in a couple of weeks, and may wait to do them until after I return - though it does provide an incentive not to come back.   Here is progress such as it is.

 

The fore.

 

The main. A dab of paint is needed on the ends of the brass wire, and I just noticed the the fifth ratline from the top needs adjusting.

 

 

This is how it all looks at the moment.

 

Edited September 13, 2016 by RMC

[RMC]

The top gallant shrouds are supposed to be tied off  below the lower deadeyes on the cross trees. This didn't seem all that satisfactory, though I couldn't see an alternative.  I looked in Petersson who shows (p.11) them tied off to a thimble which is lashed to a fitting (I don't know what it's called) attached to the futtock plates below the lower deadeye. I thought doing something like this at this late stage would be impractical. So the only thing to do of course was to have a look at how Arthur had done it - and there in his log was an excellent  Petersson solution. (I think I dimly remember something about imitation and flattery.)

 

First a loop was tied around the futtock plate - he mysterious yellow thing in the photo is an alligator clip keeping the loop taught -

 

which was tied to a brass ring (the blackening came off in the process - touching up is needed.)

 

 

 The lashing was attached to the rings.

 

Rings had been attached to the shrouds and the lashing was threaded through the rings. None have yet been tied off.

 

 

 

 

The result has been adequate. Doing the thimble fitting earlier in the build would have been easier and would have resulted in a far better job. I have only done the starboard side so far, and there is still some tidying up, and minor adjustments to be made. Once the port side is done the lashings will be tied off, being careful to make sure the masts are not pulled out of true.

 

 

Edited September 17, 2016 by RMC