18th Century Longboat by Mike Y - Model Shipways - 1:48

[WackoWolf]

Mike Y,

 

   If you could would you please give us a option of the Band Saw, the pro's and con's of it. Have been wanting to get one for a long time, but every time I check on one I find a lot of con's about it. Thank you. Lot's of pictures of it, inside and out if you don't mind.

[Mike Y]

Joe, too early to say! So far I like everything in it, apart from a requirement to screw the saw to some wooden base to make it more stable.

I really like the blade guide with three ball bearings, you can pull it down very close to the material, to have no flex in the blade.

It's pretty quiet and no vibration - that is why I preferred band saw to the scroll saw.

 

But to have a better view need to try it in action. Will post some review after a first bucket of sawdust

Edited June 28, 2014 by Mike Y

[gulfmedic1]

Floyd, unfortunately I do not have lots of pictures, all of them are in that log, but there are some on page 4 and 5 of this log.

I clamp rear ends of first planks together, with a strong plastic clamp (see page 4), that helps to keep the bend. When plank is drying, it keeps that bend perfectly.

Also take a look on a grain direction, plank is twisted easier in one direction than another.

At the bow, I fix the end of the plank with another clamp, that is attached to the stem and pressing plank to the false keel:

image.jpg

silly question what kind of clamps are those, i know the basic name binder clips but i cant find the ones with the extra metal piece on the side

[Mike Y]

They are a regular paper clips, of the minimum size I could find.

It is a brilliant idea from Floyd, see http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/611-easy-planking-clamps for details

They are very useful for planking!

[Nirvana]

Gulfmedic, in order to get two clips like that, you need three and use the "ears".

[Mike Y]

Completed main part of planking. Now the decorative top planks left, they would be a bit special and I will add them after a treenailing and final sanding of the hull.

 

The hull was just rough sanded, final smooth sanding would be done after treenailing. So please pardon that "hairy" look of the wood!

 

 

 

 

Currently experimenting with various treenail sizes. Probably will go forward with single treenail per plank, 0.8-0.9mm in diameter.

 

Half offtopic:

I was walking on one of my favourite islands in Stockholm - so called "Ship Island" (Skeppsholmen). There is a boat building club there:

 

 

They do teach how to build and maintain historical boats.. Some very fine examples are tarred and parked nearby:

 

 

 

One day, when the kids will grow up and I will have plenty of time, I will build such boat just for fun.. Very fine workmanship!

[jburchfield1@wowway.com]

So that's what the Longboat is supposed to look like after it's planked!  

 

Well, maybe next time.

[Mike Y]

Pops, it is also a lot due to the different wood - planking with boxwood is so much easier! It is elastic, but strong - so you will not skew it while gluing, it is still a plank with clear edges. Basswood planking is harder due to that.. Plus boxwood strips provided by HobbyMill are a bit thicker then the ones in the kit (because kit planks are getting thinner after initial cleanup. Hence, you have much more room to hide mistakes with sanding and scraping.

So next time - try planking with some hardwood. Would simplify the planking process and make it less nervous!

[Nirvana]

Mike,

Skeppsholmen is a very nice place to wander around, all the small coffee places and of course the variety of boats and their sizes.

For others who hasn't been to Sweden and Stockholm,   ....  yet, this is certainly a place to visit.

This island was the location for training of naval officers between 1879 and 1941.

 

As for the longboat, very nice Mike!

I have been away from the "shipyard" and have to attach the transom before doing any planking.

[gjdale]

Very nice planking job Mike. Thanks also for posting those other pics - very interesting, and some lovely examples of modelling at 1:1 scale!

[gulfmedic1]

They are a regular paper clips, of the minimum size I could find.

It is a brilliant idea from Floyd, see http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/611-easy-planking-clamps for details

They are very useful for planking!

got it thanks guys

[fnkershner]

Mike - As usual I would like a bit more detail on your planking. It looks perfect! So here are my questions -

 

Did you find you needed 12 planks per side like the instructions say?

Did you taper all of the planks?

Did you need to edge bend all of their or just a few?

The garboard stake - where does it end at the bow?

If I look carefully it looks like you had a drop plank at the stern is this true?

[Mike Y]

Floyd, I'm not sure about the plank count - because I still have a space for two planks remaining, where I will have a decoration wale plank. But I think it's closer to 11 - real planks turned out a bit wider then reference lines, and reference lines were done for 12 planks.

I tapered some planks in middle streaks, only at the bow. 

All planks were edge bent, but the bending was pretty easy, and done right on a hull, clamping wet plank to the frames.

The gardboard strake - hm, not sure how to explain, see the photo It ends much earlier then the bow.

Yes, one plank at the stern is terminated earlier, and there is a tiny drop plank there. Not ideal, but in the end looks ok, and I don't have any gap between frames, planks and false keel, everything fits together. I have a more detailed photos of the stern earlier in the log.

Good luck with your planking! Looking forward!

[fnkershner]

Mike - Thanks for your answers. One more question - Is the bow end of the garboard strake terminate in front or behind the scarf joint on the keel? Even blowing up your pictures It is hard to find your scarf joint. Also any chance you have a picture looking direct at the stern? I would like to see the termination of your planks end on.

[Mike Y]

Gardboard plank continues to the end of the stern.

Here is a close-up of the stern:

 

Please let me know if you want a photo from some different angle, I will make it in the evening. I'm not really sure what kind of photo you are looking for

[Chuck]

The plank should terminate at or just before/after the scarph joint if properly lined off.. The same is true more or less for the pinnace.   That is the second photo.  The last two are just general planking shots of teh longboat.

 

Chuck

 

 

 

 

[Mike Y]

It is terminating around the joint (though I made my own keel and stem, hence the joint is in a bit different place).

But Floyd asked about stern, and not sure I understood the question, because gardboard plank continues until the end of the hull..

[fnkershner]

Thanks Chuck that is just what I needed. I knew it was out there somewhere I just couldn't find the pictures.

 

Mike - The 2nd question is do you have a shot looking from behind directly at the stern.

 

By the way I don't believe you work. your speed of response is amazing.

[Mike Y]

Floyd, no problem, will make that shot today. 

 

P.S.: I just have an immediate mail notification for each reply in that topic

[Chuck]

Floyd

 

I dont have pictures dead on for the longboat but I think I have one for the pinnace.  Its very similar if not identical.  No stealers or drop planks.   They were not typically used on these small boats if ever.  But if you will be painting the underside it really doesnt matter.

 

Chuck

 

[Mike Y]

But Pinnace also have a very smooth rear frames, so no drop planks necessary:

 

On Longboat, they are joined on a very difficult angle:

 

But, of course, it could be done properly without any drop planks, I mostly screwed that area

 

[Chuck]

Yes I know....that isnt your fault...Take a look at the plans,  It may be hard to tell on the paper plans at the actual scale but the bottoms were flattened during laser cutting.  There is a tight curve there and the tolerances in the ME laser cutting is not tight enough to keep the curve you noticed with the pinnace.  Those sharper points were just cut away.   It happens.  They were able to do so on the pinnace I suspect only because of the larger scale.  Even though a tight curve doesnt exist for the reasons mentioned,   it should be there.   When fairing the bulkheads it should probably be sanded into the frames as much as possible. To mimic the tight curve - transition of frames, use the shape shown on the plans body plan.  Depending on the consistency of their laser cutting it may be more pronounced and absent in some kits more than others.  But the kerf they get while laser cutting is just too large to keep this detail.

 

 

Here are some images of those last three frames as they SHOULD appear and the body plan from the plans enlarged.

 

[Mike Y]

Yep, I already understood that, but too late

Would be good to add a bit of filler wood there, to make it smoother. Too late for my build, but maybe Floyd will do it?

[Mike Y]

Floyd, is that the photo you was looking for? Looking straight on the stern?

 

 

 

P.S.: there is a slightly wrong angle of a triangle thingy between transom and a keel - I know, will fix it

Edited June 30, 2014 by Mike Y

[fnkershner]

Yes that is exactly what I wanted. Thank you! I think I will add filler as suggested. I believe you are mentioning the stern post. One of the things I have learned from kits designed by Chuck is how to hide the ends of my planking in the Rabbit or the stern post. This discussion will be invaluable when I get there.

[Mike Y]

Things will slow down a bit, because I got a new and a looooong project - Oliver Cromwell - 1:48, POF, Hahn / Lumberyard

However, I will do longboat in parallel - especially since I have a lot of frames to produce, so when I would be bored - Longboat would be very useful to switch

[mtaylor]

It's good to have a background project, Mike.  Building the frames is, to me, a slow process... after cutting blanks, you wait for glue to dry. Then cut the frames and wait some more for glue to dry.  The Cromwell is a sweet looking ship. 

[Mike Y]

Time for an epic fail!

I had an idea to plank sheer strake in a anchor stock pattern, like the one I saw in Anatomy of Pandora book.

 

So I took a sheet of wood a bit thicker then regular planks, cut lots of pieces on a band saw:

 

Glued them together to shape all at the same time:

 

Then shaped them with files, knife and chisels until I managed to make a nice joints...

 

Glued shaped patterns on a paper strip to see how it will look like... (Ignore small gaps, final fine fitting would be done while gluing. Dots are just marks for treenails, there would be a real treenails later.)

 

And it looks ugly - too heavy for a light model of that size. Hope that experiment will give you a good laughs

 

So I wrote it down like a scarf carving exercise, and need to think again how to make a sheer strake. Still don't want friezes.

Probably just plank as usual and add some light moulding? Any ideas are welcome, even the crazy ones!

Edited July 6, 2014 by Mike Y

[mtaylor]

It's a pity that you didn't like it.  That is some very fine joinery on the scarfs.  So, I wouldn't call it an 'epic fail'... more like a learning experience as that skill will come in handy sooner or later.

[Mike Y]

Yes, it looks nice separately, but it definitely do not belong to the light Longboat Will think of something lighter.