Roman Quadrireme c. 300 AD by Sharpie - Scale 1/48 - Partial Cutaway

[BANYAN]

Hi Sharpie, an interesting build you have going here; I'll follow with interest. Unfortunately, in this area I know about --- well zilch actually -  so I am a bit of a voyeur on this build journey.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[*Hans*]

Sharpie, you're doing a really fine job over here, with all the research! I think this will become a quite accurate model - although there is no real ancient model to compare it with.

 

I saw a picture somewhere (don't know where it was - appearently not in this topic)  where you were talking about an airpump - but to my opinion this is just a waterpump.

 

 

You might have noticed I am busy on the Trireme at this moment. It is build in the usual kit-style, not plank on frame, not to the most accurate ancient methods like yours, and with a lot of my own input in it. What a luck I have no ancient vessel has remained....

[Sharpie]

Thanks Banyan and Hans! The lack of any surviving ancient Roman/Greek vessels is one of the reasons why I like building them-- it leaves a lot more from for personal preference and aesthetics than a well-documented ship like the Victory.

 

Hans, the pump mechanism was in this thread. You're probably right about it being a bilge pump, not an air pump, since the rowing compartment is designed with screens to  provide ventilation as well as protect the rowers from arrows and such. I suppose it might also have come in handy in dealing with smaller leaks when the hull sustained damage in battle.

I'm following your trireme build log with interest. Really looking forward to seeing all the oars at that scale!

[BANYAN]

I understand the sentiments you express re the greater sense of personal achievement with researching and building ships that are not so well documented  Sharpie.  I am researching a build for our club (HM Colonial Steam Sloop Victoria); a ship which by pure dumb luck we located the only existing plan (single sheet - waterlines, half breadth and profile but no general arrangements etc) that we are aware of (privately owned).  We can locate nothing in our Government records or in the UK (NMM or the Colonial Office) as we have searched high and low.  Except for a couple of photographs, a couple of lithographs and the Contract we would not have much to go on.  Luckily using the contract we can determine a lot of the fittings of the ship, but it is pure conjecture on their configuration and arrangement   A rewarding challenge as it is all coming together nicely.

 

Good luck on the research for this one, I have always had a bit of interest in this era of ship building and very much enjoy novels written around this period of history.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Louie da fly]

Sharpie, I agree about the lure of the unknown. Its exciting to try working out how something might have been, rather than have it all spelled out in black and white.For me, the speculation and experimentation is one of the most interesting facets of this hobby.

 

The pump might still be an air pump - apparently on the Olympias reconstruction the lowest oarsmen had trouble with overheating (and also with dehydration). I'm currently researching a Byzantine dromon, and air access is still one of the major problems that nobody knows the answer to. The general opinion is that dromoi, which were fully decked above the lower bank of oars, must have had a lot of gratings in the deck, and probably air scoops and pumps. But nobody knows for sure. On current theory there just wouldn't have been enough air for the lower deck oarsmen to keep going.

 

By the way, in Olympias, they weren't able to tension the hypozomata sufficiently with traditional materials and had to use steel cable. Yet another of these unknowns - how did they do it back in the day?

 

(I looked up the Ancient Greek meaning of hypozomata - it's a bit strange. Hypo is "under" - as in hypodermic syringe. But zomata is a plural word - the singular is zoma, and it means something that is girdled - like a tunic with a belt, for example. Why they'd use a plural word for a single cable I don't know, unless it indicates a cable made of other ropes twisted together? In Ancient Greek times it would have been pronounced somethinglike hoopoZOMata (emphasis on the third syllable), but by Roman times the pronunciation may well have changed to be more like modern Greek - eepoZOMata.) 

 

Steven

Edited December 1, 2014 by Louie da fly

[Sharpie]

A little more progress today. So far, I've installed two rows of planking on both sides, and I'm in the process of cutting/bending the third row.

Bow planking:

 

Stern planking:

 

The fit of the planks is pretty good, but not perfect. However, this part of the planking will be covered on the exterior by lead sheathing, so minor gaps caused by the bevel being slightly off aren't really a concern as long as they  aren't visible from the inside.

 

This is the first plank I've had to bend prior to fitting it onto the ship. I just immersed in hot water for about 30 seconds and clamped it to a scrap piece of 2x4 with the desired curve. It seems to have held the curve well, even though I've read that basswood has poor steam-bending properties compared to other wood.

 

 

I also started work on the ram, but I may end up throwing it out.

 

 

The problem is that the phosphor bronze sheet only comes in one thickness (0.008" or 0.2mm), and I can't seem to do a decent job of bending or layering it to create the thickness of the horizontal fins. I'll probably end up using copper instead, since it will look very similar once the patina forms and is available in much thicker sheets or strips.

 

Good luck on the research for this one, I have always had a bit of interest in this era of ship building and very much enjoy novels written around this period of history.

 

cheers

 

Pat

 

 

Thanks Pat. Have you read the Hellenic Traders series by H. N. Turtletaub (Harry Turtledove under a pseudonym)? I quite enjoyed the series, as it was full of well-researched details about the ancient Mediterranean, and especially ships, during the time period right after the death of Alexander the Great.

 

Sharpie, I agree about the lure of the unknown. Its exciting to try working out how something might have been, rather than have it all spelled out in black and white.For me, the speculation and experimentation is one of the most interesting facets of this hobby.

 

The pump might still be an air pump - apparently on the Olympias reconstruction the lowest oarsmen had trouble with overheating (and also with dehydration). I'm currently researching a Byzantine dromon, and air access is still one of the major problems that nobody knows the answer to. The general opinion is that dromoi, which were fully decked above the lower bank of oars, must have had a lot of gratings in the deck, and probably air scoops and pumps. But nobody knows for sure. On current theory there just wouldn't have been enough air for the lower deck oarsmen to keep going.

 

By the way, in Olympias, they weren't able to tension the hypozomata sufficiently with traditional materials and had to use steel cable. Yet another of these unknowns - how did they do it back in the day?

 

(I looked up the Ancient Greek meaning of hypozomata - it's a bit strange. Hypo is "under" - as in hypodermic syringe. But zomata is a plural word - the singular is zoma, and it means something that is girdled - like a tunic with a belt, for example. Why they'd use a plural word for a single cable I don't know, unless it indicates a cable made of other ropes twisted together? In Ancient Greek times it would have been pronounced somethinglike hoopoZOMata (emphasis on the third syllable), but by Roman times the pronunciation may well have changed to be more like modern Greek - eepoZOMata.) 

 

Steven

 

Michael Pitassi does address the ventilation problem in Roman Warships, proposing various configurations of large gratings on the deck as well as wooden screens next to the rowing benches that are above the level of the gunwales. But with a dromon, I can see air supply being much more of a problem based on my limited knowledge of them.

 

As far as the Olympias' hypozomata, I don't think they were even able to try using natural materials, since they couldn't find an adequate supply of hemp rope, and no synthetic materials had similar properties. The steel cable wasn't an ideal solution either. Because steel cable isn't very elastic, it would apparently slacken when the ship flexed one way, and snap taut when it flexed the other, leading to concerns about it potentially breaking and injuring the crew.

 

Concerning the plurality of zomata, this excerpt from John F. Coates lecture clears thing up a little: "The second piece of evidence concerning strength was about great ropes, 47 mm or so in diameter, and nearly twice the ship's length. Two were rigged in each ship when on active service, and two more were carried aboard as spares. A decree laid down the number of men required to rig them in a trireme. The inscription about them is unfortunately damaged, but the space occupied by the missing number indicates that it was probably 50. They were important pieces of kit because their export from Athens was a capital offense." 

 

Here's a link to the rest of the lecture.

[*Hans*]

Thanks Banyan and Hans! The lack of any surviving ancient Roman/Greek vessels is one of the reasons why I like building them-- it leaves a lot more from for personal preference and aesthetics than a well-documented ship like the Victory.

 

Hans, the pump mechanism was in this thread. You're probably right about it being a bilge pump, not an air pump, since the rowing compartment is designed with screens to  provide ventilation as well as protect the rowers from arrows and such. I suppose it might also have come in handy in dealing with smaller leaks when the hull sustained damage in battle.

I'm following your trireme build log with interest. Really looking forward to seeing all the oars at that scale!

170 pieces or so - all 4 x 4 mm to be sanded round and flat - man! what a joy!

[BANYAN]

Thanks Pat. Have you read the Hellenic Traders series by H. N. Turtletaub (Harry Turtledove under a pseudonym)? I quite enjoyed the series, as it was full of well-researched details about the ancient Mediterranean, and especially ships, during the time period right after the death of Alexander the Great.

 

 

I am sorry to say that I haven't but that looks quite interesting.  I will have to hunt it down and have a quiet read (sounds like a relaxing Christmas break  activity

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Louie da fly]

Sharpie; Thanks for the link to that lecture. Some of the engineering was way over my head, but the information was fascinating.

 

Steven

[dgbot]

Sharpie, I am getting more books in lately.  My sister does not mind so long as they are in my room.  Plus I use the Kindle app. on my tablet. Everything from Mark Twain to Alexander Kent.  I have all the Bolitho novels at a fraction of the  cost. Plus I do not have to find room for them in my library.  If your series is on Kindle I might make a go for it.  The only physical AL books I have are those that concern ship modeling along with history.  The Swan books sitting back home are a precious treasure.  I think David A did the wise thing by not offering them in digital form.  I love the smell and the feel of a good well done book.

David B

Edited December 5, 2014 by dgbot

[*Hans*]

 

 

 

 

 

As far as the Olympias' hypozomata, I don't think they were even able to try using natural materials, since they couldn't find an adequate supply of hemp rope, and no synthetic materials had similar properties. The steel cable wasn't an ideal solution either. Because steel cable isn't very elastic, it would apparently slacken when the ship flexed one way, and snap taut when it flexed the other, leading to concerns about it potentially breaking and injuring the crew.

 

 

 

A material which could have been used was human hair. This was also used for the big catapults  

 

By making a long string of it and then lay it double and twist it (simply with a stick through it) man could reach a very high tension on the rope.

[Sharpie]

The woefully slow progression of planking continues off-camera, but in the meantime, I finally finished the ballista! (Well, sort of-- see the bottom of the post.)

 

I had to make the arms a bit thicker than I had planned, since the torsion skeins are very tight.

 

 

 

I managed to get the winch and trigger mechanisms to work, but I had to get a little creative (i.e., inaccurate) on the trigger. I figured it was worth sacrificing a little bit of accuracy in return for functionality.

 

However, I was unable to successfully test fire the ballista, since the winch dowel that the string winds around broke under tension, and the articulated elevation adjustment joint came apart. I'll try to fix this by replacing the elevation joint with a slightly thicker piece of wood, and soaking the replacement winch dowel in CA glue to strengthen it. Once I get it all back together, I'll try to take a video of it firing, but no guarantees. 

[Vivian Galad]

Hah! Waiting on the video. Nice work till here.

[BANYAN]

That looks great Sharpie; and a working model to boot (well sort of )

 

When remaking/replacing the winch dowel (axel/spindle) have you tried a much harder grade of wood and ensuring the grain is in the transverse direction ( I expect you have but just in case) -  a really hard wood while more difficult t shape may provide the strength you need without oversizing too much?

 

cheers

 

Pat

[mtaylor]

And a working ballista on top of everything else.  Wow!      Sometimes I think we really are an obsessive bunch.   

 

Instead of a wooden dowel, would some brass rod painted wood color work?   Not that I'm also obsessive... 

[WackoWolf]

Nice touch. I agree with Mark about maybe brass or some type of metal. But that's just me, your the BOSS and you do as you think is best.

[Sharpie]

Thank guys! 

Pat, I thought about trying to find one harder wood, but my local hobby shop only has basswood, and I couldn't justify placing n online order for a 0.75 x 10mm pice of wood.

 

I probably will use a metal pin when I get around to fixing it. It won't be very visible, so I could just oxidize the metal in the stove flame to darken it, and it will look fine.

I'll try to post an update on the planking in the next couple of days-- I'm almost to 3 rows on each side.

[Louie da fly]

Amazing stuff, Sharpie. That's a really impressive balista.

 

It's amazing the forces involved in such weapons, even at this small scale. I think a blackened metal spindle for your string should be fine - strong enough to do the job and thin enough to look right. At that scale know one will ever know the difference.

 

If you have any trouble, you might try contacting the Grey Company's Tossers, who have a long history of making trebuchets, onagers and springalds (though I don't think I've seen a ballista on their page). However, I haven't been in touch with them for years, so they may not be at it any more.

 

They even have miniature table top trebuchets colloquially known as cheesechuckers - see the section called "Models and Prototypes".  

 

 

Steven

Edited December 19, 2014 by Louie da fly

[Sharpie]

Thanks Steven!

 

Other (non-ship related) projects notwithstanding, I haven't accomplished much over the past week, but I was able to pick up the pace a bit today.

 

Here's an overall shot of where I am with the planking. The perspective is a bit weird, since the photo uploader insists on rotating it.

 

 

A better close-up of the stern:

 

 

I'll be adding a few more planks later today-- the rest of the third row and half of the fourth has been cut, bent, detailed and stained, and I'll glue them on as soon as they're fully dry.

 

 

It may be a while until the next update, since I have a lot of fairly monotonous planking to do. Thanks for looking!

[BANYAN]

That is looking great Sharpie; maybe santa's helpers can assist with the planking now their chores are mainly over

 

Look forward to your next progress report.

 

Happy Christmas

 

Pat

[Sharpie]

More progress! The photo's a little fuzzy, but it gives a good idea of the current state of the build.

 

 

Here's a slightly early photo from a different perspective.

 

 

I had previously been thinking of covering the hull below the waterline with lead sheathing, as was done on some merchant ships, but Michael Pitassi's Roman Warships points out that this would have been too heavy for a war galley. Instead, the lower portion of the hull will be painted black, to simulate the timbers being coated with pitch.

 

I also cut the 48 central lower deck beam supports.

 

 

I'll wait to cut the fore and aft lower deck beam supports until I'm ready to install them, so I don't have to worry about keeping each set labelled and sorted.

 

I got a package from MicroMark today with a plank forming jig, which is being used to form the central lower deck beams. It sure does make things easier to be able to fabricate 10 identical pieces at a time!

 

 

Finally, I accidentally broke off the sternmost part of the keel. Fortunately, it broke cleanly along the joint, so it will be an easy fix.

 

 

Thanks for looking!

[BANYAN]

She's coming along very nicely Sharpie (despite your best efforts to destroy her )

 

cheers

 

Pat

[tarbrush]

it's really looking great, I am enjoying following your unique build, ancient ships are just fascinating

[Sharpie]

Thanks guys! The latest progress is a little more visually impressive; I've added the first 9 lower deck beam/support assemblies, as well as the rowing bench and footrest supports on the starboard side. This gives a much better impression of what the size and shape of the finished hull will be. 

 

 

 

[Omega1234]

Hi Sharpie

 

Marvellous. I love those photos. The hull looks complex, simple, beautiful and strange all at the same time!!!

 

Well done.

 

Patrick

[Sharpie]

Thank you for the kind words Patrick! I really appreciate the positive feedback.

 

I've finally reached a significant milestone in the planking:

 

 

(Don't worry, the rather embarrassing gaps between the first strakes and the keel will be filled when the bottom is smoothed out and painted.)

This is the last continuous row of planking on the starboard side (on the bottom at least). The subsequent rows will have a gap in the middle, which will be about 40-50% of the length of the ship at its widest point. This row of planking is also the last one that attaches to the short ends of the floors, which means it's time to brush up my scroll saw skills to cut the 60+ middle rib segments.

 

The rope that will be used for the hypozomata was completed a couple days ago. It's made from three ropes, each made from three strands of heavy quilting thread.

 

 

I haven't quite made up my mind regarding the hypozomata mounting and tensioning gear, but right now I'm leaning towards using deadeyes, based on the J. F. Coates lecture discussed earlier in the thread.

 

"How the hypozomata were tensioned remains a mystery. In the Egyptian ships the hogging trusses were plainly tensioned by twisting them together, making what is often called a Spanish Windlass. That is not a very efficient mechanism because in twisting the ropes they are bent into helices, so that bending stresses are generated which are about as great as the direct tension which is desired. However, it is clear enough that that was what the Egyptians did. In latter day sailing ships standing rigging was invariably set up by three-fold purchases in which the blocks were without sheaves but greased. They are called deadeyes. I think that method is more likely to have been used in triremes also."

 

I'm still not sure how they could possibly have tensioned a rope to 13.5 tones using deadeyes. They must have had a lot of people pulling on the lanyard. I guess it's conceivable that they might have used a team of oxen or something, but that seems unlikely, as the hypozomata were often replaced during a campaign. Any ideas?

 

If I decide not to use deadeyes, the next best alternative would be a sort of ratcheted windlass, which is the only other mechanism I can think of that would tension the rope without twisting it.

 

Thanks for looking!

[dgbot]

This is definitely a strange build. I am fascinated with it and the way you are doing it.

David B

[tarbrush]

I have no help to offer but I love this build log, it is so interesting.  your planking looks terrific!

[*Hans*]

To  my humble thoughts to get a pulling strength of 13,5 tons, only twisting could be a proper method. I also thought of making the rope wet, so it will expand, mount it as tight as possible and then heat it up so it will shrink again - thus creating pull.

 

Mind you - these are only pop-ups in my head. No written evidence.

[Sharpie]

Thanks David and John! I'm glad to see this much interest in such an obscure type of ship.

 

Hans, I agree. Having though about it a little, there's no way they could get that much tension just by pulling on a deadeye lanyard. Wetting the rope is an interesting idea. It certainly seems like it should work, and they may very well have done that in addition to twisting the rope.

 

I put together a quick "sketch" of an arrangement that seems feasible.

 

*Not to scale

 

It's very similar to a Spanish windlass, but borrows the removable poles from Roman torsion catapults. There would have to be an open slot running left to right across the deck, but it could be covered with a removable plank. The crossbeam on the pole allows more people to push on it at once, and the pole/crossbeam assemblies would be disassembled and stored in a rack below deck. (This is how it will be displayed on the model, unless I come across a better idea.) Once the hypozomata was fully tensioned, the wooden cylinder would be held in place with a short pole braced agains the keel, just like a Spanish windlass.

 

As far as the actual model, I've made a little more progress. Six of the middle rib sections have been cut (I cut them on a scroll saw in stacks of 6 or 8 to save time), and three have been sanded, stained and installed. Another 8 lower deck beams have been formed and stained, but haven't had the supports added yet. I'll try to post a photo in a day or so when I get them installed.

 

I've also started working on the grating that goes along the sides, which provides both ventilation and protection from arrows. The problem is that there will be a total of about 48 inches (1220mm) of grating on the ship, which means 720 pieces. I'm using Constructo 45mm bottom boards, with each board cut into two pieces with six slots each. There are 15 pieces per inch, and so far I've made about 2 inches… 690 more pieces is a long way to go.