San Francisco 2 by Shaz - FINISHED - Artesania Latina - Wood

[fish]

Robbyn,

 

Everything looks great, I haven't been saying much but I have been watching your build and uses your pictures for references.

 

-Aaron

[Timothy Wood]

I havn't checked on your build in a few weeks, I must say she looks great!  Keep up the good work!

 

Cheers,

Tim

[ScottRC]

Hello Robbyn,

Just checked in and saw the latest pics, lookin good.  May not be around for while because of work, so hope everything continues to go well.  Try to look in when I can to see the progress.

 

Scott

[Shazmira]

Tim Thank you sir!!!

Scott, have fun with work I am looking forward to the end of the semester and a bit of time off!!!

 

Aaron don't know how wise it is to refer to my log...unless it is for what NOT to do

Sjors, yes, I can see just the corner of the Syren box, peeking out in that picture...but NOPE...she is staying closed!!!

Bedford, I will have to remember that on the next kit. Since all the string thing is a totally foreign concept to me, I plan to do the SF as the plans and instructions show (when they say and show anything ) this way I can use her as a learning tool so I don't screw up the Syren!

[Shazmira]

Okay stays are all in place and finished. Time consuming, but not near as difficult as I thought they would be. Just like most everything in life. One step at a time, and in the end it comes together.

Tomorrow since I will now know the angle of my shrouds, i can do my deadeyes and chainplates!!!!

 

 

 

[Spiff]

Hi Robbyn

Looking good ! I cant wait to see my Golden Star with masts - thats when it becomes a REAL ship 

I will give you one little tip - I read about it and havent used it yet myself but intend to. Its supposed to be good to smear a little bit of (diluted) white gule on the rigging after installing, so that the string dosnt 'fluff'- (for the lack of a better word). I didnt do it to my first build and can see that just after I finished it the strings looked fine, but now its as though it as frayed a bit - not at the ends but all over. Have a hard time explaining so have just taken a quick pic (and its not (all) dust).

Maybe someone who have actually done this can verify?

[Sjors]

Hi Spiff,

 

I think the best way is to wax the rope with beeswax.

You can also turn it to every shape

It works excellent with me.

 

[Bedford]

I was going to mention the rigging "FUZZIES" because I could see it in the photo. The diluted glue sounds good to fix what is there. I use bees wax and run all cord through it before attaching to the ship. It works quite well. I even had black wax for my first build to give that tarred effect to the standing rigging but have not seen it available since.

 

I tend to knead it first to soften it and then wrap it around the cord and squeeze hard whle drawing the cord through it.

 

Gee Robbyn, all the tips that are comming to mind now that you have started rigging, sorry I didn't think of them before.

I have been told to wet all the cord and hang it out to dry with weights on it to take any stretch out of it but I only did that on my second build and since the first one, "launched" in '97 has not sagged yet I have not bothered on subsequent builds.

 

The wax or something simmilar is really recommended though to defeat the fuzzies, not candle wax though, you need something pure and acid free.

 

As for the fuse wire, yes it has become obsolete here too, no fuses in any house built in at least the last 15 years or more. Being an electrical fitter I have a reasonable amount of it lying around that I was going to throw out until I discovered its usefulness in ships.

 

It is not copper, it is a resistance wire which has a shiny coating and is a single strand. I would imagine there are still old houses in the US with fuses, maybe ask a sparkie. (electrician)  but I would think a very fine galvanised tie wire would work the same way. For that matter you could use a brass wire and a product I have seen on here but can't remember the name but it blackens brass.

[Shazmira]

As far as the fuzzies go, thank you for reminding me. I have been using the beeswax on other "strings" like my mast wraps. I did not use it on my stays as I plan to use brown boot polish on them and I didn't want to do it before I attached them as I thought that would be a huge mess. But then I forgot all about it when I finished. I will go home tonight and do that right away!!!

 

Sjors BEHAVE yourself!!!! The Syren must wait, just a bit longer!

 

Keith, I plan to do the Pinnace as well, that is what I asked for as my birthday present. I love the looks of both those little boats, and I did not want the longboat to be lonely and be dwarfed by all the other builds I have planned, so I want to get it a little playmate!

[Shazmira]

Ok need help. I understand how the dead eyes are attached to the chainplates, run through the channels and then nailed to the hull. Next step is to thread the next set of deadeyes that attaches to these on the chainplates...following me so far? 

First question, lower eyes...2 up...upper eyes 2 down. Is that correct?

 

Ok, big question. once the double set of deadeyes are all attached, I am supposed to run my shroud (?) lines from each of the upper deadeyes up to the masts.  I believe I attach the shroud line to the dead eye, the same way I did on the stays. Meaning I wrap the line around the deadeye and then serve the end, right???

 

That all seems logical so far, then I run into trouble. the plans and instructions say to run my shroud lines up through the space provided on my "crows nest" and I am supposed to take the shrouds up to where the widest part of my mast ends and is connected to the next thinner part of the mast (OMG I hope you understand what I mean). But what the heck do I attach the shrouds to??? Are they just tied around the mast? I mean wrapped and served?  Do I do them individually? or bring each strand together and then attach them somehow?????

 

There are no close up pictures in my instructions for this step, and the plans only show directions of the shroud lines coming UP from the dead eyes and then say where to end them on the masts.  I am so lost. I tried looking at other logs, but different kits seem to do them differently, or I am just not looking in the right place?

[trippwj]

Robbyn -

 

You don't ask much, now, do you?

 

The deadeyes are installed with the single hole at the top (upper deadeye) or bottom (lower deadeye). 

 

 

 

 

each pair of shrouds is a continuous piece from forward deadeye, around mast, to next deadeye on same side.  The part at the mast is then siezed, the shroud attached to the deadeyes and then the deadeye lanyard is installed and used to tighten the shroud to the correct tension.  Best approach (so I have been told) is to get the length correct for the shrouds then do the lanyard between deadeyes - able to ensure that the upper deadeyes remain at a consistent height that way.

 

Alternate sides, doing first pair on starboard then first pair on port. 

 

 

 

Hope this helps!

Edited May 3, 2013 by trippwj

[Salty Sea Dog]

I am by no means a rigging expert nor have I ever played one on tv (it scares me to be honest). I do have this picture from the old Model Expo catalog that may help though with a detail of the shroud tops. I just learned what a mizzen was not long ago!

 

[Spiff]

Wow - that picture Wayne posted is just plain SCARY

[gjdale]

H Robynn,

 

Not sure about your particular ship, but generally, shrouds are attached in pairs, ie one piece of line that goes around the mast and is seized at the mast to make two shrouds (on the same side). They are installed in pairs, two starboard then two port. Attach the upper deadeye to the shroud, using a jig to ensure that your dead eyes align in a straight line at consistent height. I borrowed an idea from EdT on this and found it worked very well. Here is a link to a page of my log showing the jig in action (it's towards the bottom of the page). The same page shows how I did the ratlines too, if that is helpful for your next step.

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/163-hms-victory-by-grant-dale-mamoli-scale-190/

[trippwj]

The last picture is actually of the Victory.  Some are actually quite a bit easier....

[Bedford]

Excellent tutorial Wayne. The only thing I would add is that I bend a piece of brass wire that will fit through the holes in the dead eyes into a U shape  such that I can feed it through a hole in the bottom dead eye and another in the top dead eye.

 

This holds them all at the same height when you are setting the length of the shroud.

 

Do it with the dead eyes the wrong way up so the single hole is at the top on the shroud table and the bottom on the shroud, ie two holes closest together, that way you only need a single brass wire to locate, if you try and do it with the dead eyes in the correct orientation you need two brass wires twisted together and exactly aligned to hold both dead eyes by two holes to stop them rotating as you apply tension.

 

Remember when bending the brass wire that when you rotate the dead eyes back to their correct orientation the gap between the two dead eyes will increas marginally.

 

Make sense ?

 

As for building a pinnace, all I can say is when telling your pupils, and friends for that matter, be very very concise with your pronounciation.

[Shazmira]

 

 

each pair of shrouds is a continuous piece from forward deadeye, around mast, to next deadeye on same side.  The part at the mast is then siezed, the shroud attached to the deadeyes and then the deadeye lanyard is installed and used to tighten the shroud to the correct tension.  Best approach (so I have been told) is to get the length correct for the shrouds then do the lanyard between deadeyes - able to ensure that the upper deadeyes remain at a consistent height that way.

 

Alternate sides, doing first pair on starboard then first pair on port. 

 

 

 

Hope this helps!

Wayne, thank you,  between you and the others I understand a bit more now. But I still have a bit of confusion.

 

I wish I knew how to put my own little drawing in, but i will just have to try and explain with words.

 

So I did my dead eyes correctly 2 eyes up(top) 2 eyes down (bottom).

GJ, I did make myself a little jig so all my pairs/sets of deadeyes will be the same.

Buck, that thing from ME would have been really nice to have read BEFORE I had my masts all assembled, definitely would make all of this part much easier.

 

Ok, let's see if i am grasping this,,,,ONE piece of string from first deadeye, up around the mast (serve this) same string back down to next deadeye in line (on the same side of the ship).  Shroud line is served at both deadeyes as well.

 

I also think I get that i do one pair on one side of the ship (Port or starboard), then do the corresponding pair on the opposite side (port or starboard). I do this so that I don't pull the mast to one side or the other I am assuming.

 

Wayne your instructions speak of a deadeye lanyard....I have no idea what that is

 

One last question...I hope....doing this in pairs of deadeyes works fine for my channels at the stern, which has 4, and the channel in the middle, which holds 6. However, my channel at the bow only holds 5 shroud lines, so do I do the middle one just from the deadeye up to the mast?

[Shazmira]

Now you just confused me further Bedford. You are making it sound like I do my shroud lines attached to a deadeye. Then I connect that deadeye to the one in the channel??? If I do that then I cant use the jig.  I guess I am not understanding how your wire (which sounds easier than the jig) works exactly...or when it works maybe is what I am trying to ask

[augie]

Hey-  you've gotten some great advice.  MSW works!

 

The deadeye lanyard is the line that runs between the deadeye holes and holds them together.  Make sure the knot that you use to start off is inboard so you don't see it from the outside of the ship.

 

There are times when there are single shrouds.  In that case I run the shroud from one side over to the other.  You may wrap it around the mast or not ---you need to see how it looks.  If you don't, just run it straight over and you may want to seize it to the shround next to it. 

[Shazmira]

Ok, so I am stupid!!!! I looked at Grants little jig...thank you for the link.  The jig I made I had copied from a different log and it only held the pair of deadeyes...made me believe I needed to do the lanyards between them first!!

 

So just call me an idiot.

 

Guess I wont be moving on as quickly as I thought.  This rigging thing is more complicated than I ever dreamed

But I will persevere

[Shazmira]

Alright....DOH!!! As someone just very wisely reminded me, I have in my possession one of the greatest tutorials on shrouds, and it even includes instructions for a jig! Thanks Augie!

 

Sjors, look out! I am opening the Syren box and reading the tutorial....

[Bedford]

This seems to have become confusing, I don't know where you are up to but - the two corresponding dead eyes should be as shown in waynes pictures so the three holes in the top dead eye should form the three points of an arrow pointing UP, the three holes in the corresponding dead eye below should form the points of an arrow pointing down. In other words when you look at the finished product the three lines of lanyard should be short - long - short.

 

The lanyard is the "shoe lace" if you will, that ties and tensions the two dead eyes together.

 

The wire jig is placed through a hole in the dead eye attached to the ship then after you have done the seizing of the shroud around the mast take one line down and around the upper dead eye which you now put onto the wire jig so you can pull a little tension on the shroud as it goes around the dead eye and heads back up itself. Then I sueeze firmly with my finger and thumb on the two sections of shroud that have now been brought together above the shroud dead eye while removing it from the wire jig. The squeezing and heat from my fingers makes the wax hold the lines together until I can get a knot around them and start the sieze.

 

Then do the second one as you suggested but I only tension one on each side at a time to help keep the strain even.

 

If there are an uneven number then as suggested by someone above, just run it over the lot and back down to the other side, trust me, no-one will ever realise you did that and it will look fine

[Bedford]

Just to confuse, sorry, clarify things

 

1 attach and sieze shrouds to mast

2 insert wire jig into SHIP dead eye

3 wrap shroud around top dead eye

4 locate top dead eye onto the other end of the jig

5 adjust shroud around top dead eye

6 secure shroud in place, if cord is waxed heat from fingers under pressure will suffice.

7 remove jig and sieze top dead eye

8 align dead eyes so the three holes in them form arrows pointing up for the top and down for the ship mounted one

9 introduce the lanyard, tie a knot in one end and pass the other end through the side hole of the top dead eye from the deck side

10 run lanyard through side hole in ship dead eye from the sea side

11 run lanyard through middle hole in the top dead eye from the deck side

12 continue till you have it through all dead eye holes then run back to the top of the top dead eye and tie off around the shroud

[augie]

exactly what i was thinking  Shaun  .but atleast its better then AL pictures which would show nothing

Yes, kind of intimidating at first look.  But take it apart in your mind and, as you rig it one part on top of another, it will make sense.  Of course actually doing it is something else      .

 

I'm really glad Robbyn posted her questions.  She's a lot smarter than I am to do so.  But we all get there one way or another!

Edited May 4, 2013 by Augie

[gjdale]

Robbyn,

 

You've certainly had no shortage of advice so far, and I do hope you haven't found it all too confusing. It would be well worth your while spending a little time going over EdT's Victory log. While Victiory is a more complex build than yours perhaps, the principles are the same and Ed's work is outstanding, as are his explanations.

 

Good luck as you enter the spider's web called rigging.

[Adrieke]

oh after a bit of study it makes sense Augie, but its more thinking about how to get all that stuff rigged up without my clumsy fingers foiling up the parts that are already done. 

 

i do that alot like on the kom (but shhh dont tell) one of the rudders is broken off . i intend to fix it soon as most of the work that needs her on her side is done so i wont break it again

[Bedford]

You know that feeling you get when you are helping a student and the penny drops, they get it! They appreciate your time!

 

So do I

 

One of the biggest things to remember with rigging is that it is part of a complex machine. It all has to work.

The first ship is very confusing but the next will make sense and you will understand how it all works so it will be much easier.

 

Think about what each line does as you attach it, don't stress if you don't understand it, without sails attached it won't all make perfect sense and given the quality of the instructions they will not be accurate anyway, but you will get a bit of an understanding.

 

I have made three ships and the one I am planning now (you've seen the masts) has no plans or instructions, it is all out of my head except for hull profiles. I will rig it to my understanding of rigging and it will work. Remember that the ships were designed by naval achitects, not sailors. I would imagine that as soon as a new ship put to sea some of the running rigging was changed, relocated, to make it more user friendly so even the best plans from original construction could be wrong an hour after she puts to sea.

[Shazmira]

Just a verbal update atm.I read through Chucks instructions in the Syren instructions.  Sorry Sjors, I only removed the instructions and plans (in case I needed to refer to them) then I quickly closed the box back up. I held my breath so I wouldn't smell the wood, and I plugged my ears so I couldn't hear the Syren call    I have finished installing the chainplate deadeyes, and am now preparing the shroud lines. Once I have them served I will post a pic.

[Shazmira]

My high tech little chainplate jig. 

I know, I know, I should have made proper chain plates, but you know what....I didn't want to fuss with them. I have seen others just use the galvanized wire on their builds, and personally I think it looks fine on this ship. Only concession I made was to use some black, jewelry beading wire instead of the galvanized since paint always makes it look bad, and I have no blackening agents.

 

first set of shrouds in place

 

Now, before I go any further as just doing the foremast took me 3 hours...does this look acceptable, or have I done something completely wrong? Toatally amazing to me how in a close up picture there are so many fuzzies visible. I ran each shroud line through the beeswax 6 times.

 

[gjdale]

Hi Robbyn,

 

If I understand your question, you are asking if you've done the shrouds at the mast top correctly. Your method looks fine, however I'd make two observations. Firstly, the first pair of shrouds (ie the lowest at the mast top) should be on the Starboard side (hard to tell from the pictures but looks to me that you've done the first pair to port - I could be wrong). Second observation is that shrouds should be black, or at least very dark brown/grey to simulate the tarring of these lines. If you're planning to colour these later, then please disregard this comment.

 

Re your deadeye jig, I'd recommend having a go using EdT's method as illustrated in the link I sent you earlier. It is no more difficult to do than what you have used so far, and I think you will find it easier. I've just realised though, hat Ed hasn't yet re-posted that section of his log. I think I have a copy of the relevant pages from the old site, so I'll have a look and send them to you a bit later today. Just need to wait until the wife wakes up - I'm an early riser and she likes to sleep late on weekends - I'm sure you get the picture.