San Francisco 2 by Shaz - FINISHED - Artesania Latina - Wood

[Shazmira]

I considered cutting them before the second layer, that way I could hide any errors. The problem was my instructions and plans do not have any details on where they are supposed to go. I decided I would do as you are planning and cut them after I put the strakes on. I figure that way I can get them centered and in the correct place. But now I am thinking I will lay out the strakes and mark them on the hull, cut the port holes, then attach the strakes. I am worried that working around those strakes might cause me to cut the holes improperly or damage the strakes themselves. My kit was short one length of the wood those strakes are made of, so I can't afford any mistakes with the pieces I have.

[Shazmira]

Well thanks to a couple of snow days I managed to complete my planking ahead of schedule. I am not tickled pink with how it turned out, but I think it is serviceable  for a first attempt.

What it looked like when I went to bed last nite

 

Decided to stain this morning...hate it!

 

Spent the day sanding off the stain....ugh, almost as bad as planking lol

 

Beginning to look better, but I am still working on it

 

 

 

[Shazmira]

Still sanding away to get rid of the dark streaks in the wood so I can restain again. Tonight though I am marking and cutting the other 22 lower gun ports. I thought I would wait, but I am intending to stain and poly the hull before I start adding pieces to it. I think I will achieve a nicer finish to the hull that way. So I am cutting the gun ports now so I dont mess up the finish later. At least that is my plan, hopefully it all goes according to plan. Keeping my fingers crossed anyway.

[realworkingsailor]

Nice job with the second planking

 

I always say, when you're not sure about a certain finish (paint or stain or whatever), make a sacrificial square of the same material so you can test the outcome...before putting yourself through what you just went through. Hope you get her all remedied to your satisfaction nonetheless.

 

Andy

[russ]

Robbyn:

For a first attempt the hull looks very good. Watch how much you sand, though. That planking is only so thick.

 

Russ

[Shazmira]

Andy, I did test the stain on a small piece of the mahogany, used red mahogany stain and I liked how it looked. Unfortunately it is kind of like painting a room. a little looks good, but when the whole room is done you don't like it. I really liked it on the sample I did, but when I stained the whole shop I thought it looked much too dark and ugly for my tastes lol. It was probably more historically correct than the light finish I have decided to go with. But I am a woman, and you know how women are, we constantly change our minds, and we like things just because we like things .

I find it amazing that for all I learned from reading things on this site, I still find myself making some of the same mistakes I have seen others make!

Oh well, at least maybe I can learn from my own mistakes.

Yes, Russ, that second planking is soooo very thin, and I messed up on the tip of my stern and went too deep, luckily it was only the last 1/4 inch, so a bit of wood putty will hopefully correct that error.

[fish]

Robbyn,

Planking looks great. I think you just passed me up, maybe I need a couple of snow days

I am thinking the same as you with the gun ports, my only concern is that the glue for the rubbing strakes will hold once you stain or seal the hull. Now that you are ahead of me I guess that makes you my Guinea pig

 

Aaron

[Bedford]

My two bob's worth, stain should not preclude wood glue adhesion because it works by getting into the grain so as long as the stain is not one that seals and finishes then it should be alright. Having said that, I have never stained a hull as I work on bringing out the natural beauty of the timbers involved. Robbyn, I am not a woman but I like what I like too

 

If not, what I have done in the past where I have applied the finishing coat out of necessity before all parts are attached is the sparing use of araldite epoxy and if it is a structural joint then cross hatch the surface with a craft knife first.

 

I know the moment has passed but when I do second layer planking I simply apply PVA aquadhere sparingly to the plank then run my finger gently over the plank to spread it thinly and offer the plank to the hull and rub the plank along it's length from centre to end several times which creates what is known as a "rub joint". the rubbing pushes all air out of the joint so the fluid glue holds the plank almost by vacuum. It only takes a few minutes of checking and pushing and re-rubbing to get the bond to a sufficient strength to hold the plank. Then run a knife edge along the exposed edge of the plank to remove excess glue that would interfere with the next plank and continue. I find second layer planking quite enjoyable and fast except for the obvious need to cut the planks to taper and have never had to use anything to secure the planks in place.

 

Steve

[Shazmira]

Steve, gee, what a way to burst a girl's bubble

I was not thinking about the glue not holding if I stained and clearcoated first. So thank you for throwing your 2 cents in,  I think you just saved me a major headache down the road.

According to your post it is ok to apply the stain as long as it is not a sealant? If I am understanding that correctly then I will go ahead and apply the stain once I have the port holes cut, but I will NOT apply the clear coat,

Aaron, I am not sure I like being your guinea pig lol, as for snow days...after having 2 of them I am feeling a little cabin fever begin to set in And I have to admit, living out in the country relying only on a wood stove for heat definitely has its drawbacks! It took only a couple trips, in the middle of the blizzard, to the woodpile to keep the fire roaring and warming for me to stop enjoying that romantic notion.

[Salty Sea Dog]

Hi Robbyn! I think your ship is looking really good!  If you are wanting a color that looks a little deeper and richer than the bare wood, maybe all you really need is a finish coat. I'm a big fan of shelac because you can wipe it all off with alcohol if you don't like it and it sticks to anything. If you have some scrap planking, you might try wiping a little cooking oil or lemon oil on it and that would give you a good idea of what a clear shelac finish would look like. I'm in the same boat as Steve (sorry -bad pun!) and like bringing out the natural beauty of the wood with clear finishes whenever possible.

 

Did you get any of that freaky thunder snow where you're at? That was bizzare!

[russ]

Robbyn:

I would say that you should have a bare wood surface to glue to. I would not put any stain or any sealer anywhere you will need to glue something to the wood. The less there is betwen the surfaces being glued, the better.

 

If you have a way to add a fastener, that will help with the bond. For instance, using brass nails to secure the chainplates to the hull.

 

Russ

[Bedford]

I agree with Russ, bare timber should always be the best to glue to but as someone mentioned before, sample pieces. Stain an offcut and see how well you can glue something to it.

 

Further to the shellack topic, I didn't know cooking oil would emulate the finish, nice bit of info, thanks. Shellack is a golden hue, just for reference.

To emulate a clear finish dampen the wood with methylated spirits, you can do this on the job itself as metho is alcohol and will do no harm to the wood or glue and dries off very quickly.

 

Robbyn, glad I helped even if unintentionally

 

I have a female friend who saw my "Schooner for Port Jackson" and wanted to build a tall ship herself so she bought the "Bluenose II" she took one look at the instructions and put it back in the box never to open it again inspite of my offers to help and guide. She eventually gave it to me one Christmas. I built it and gave it back to her, she had done something truly selfless and I am sure extremely difficult for us when our world was completely destroyed. The model was a very small token of my appreciation.

It's nice to see a few female builders on here, perhaps I can use your example to get her to try again.

[Shazmira]

Spent today cutting in the gun ports on both sides,and a bit more sanding of the hull. Have now begun the lining of the inside of the bulwarks.

 

Steve, tell your female friend she should try again, and this time not to get overwhelmed by the instructions, but to give them a complete look over then to take each step as it comes. I'm sure of course you will have her check out MSW and all the build logs here that are of much more benefit than the instructions anyway.

 

Thanks to Crackers, Russ and everyone else chiming in as well. Honestly it is you guys that are keeping me building, even though I know that compared to some logs on here mine pales in comparison. But I intend to see this through and learn from each of my mistakes, I expect the next build to look better

 

[Bedford]

You go girl !!

Of course the first will have many mistakes but to be honest, you will be the only one who sees most of them. People who come to your wood heated house in between snow storms will see the overall model and be amazed.

 

I tend to recommend anyone building their first model goes for something late 19th century like a clipper ship because of the modern bow design, the bullnose bows are harder to do. I also tell them to just look at one step at a time and it will come together as you suggest. Didn't work though.

 

 

Steve

Edited February 24, 2013 by Bedford

[Shazmira]

Steve, for me, that modern design is just missing something...I think it is the stupid, yet romantic notion of pirates and all that draws me to the galleons. For some reason it is their shape that mind's eye finds most pleasing. I know when I was looking at kits to buy, it was always the galleons that I was drawn too. I am already trying to decide which kit to tackle next I know I want one that is bigger and more ornate but don't want it so difficult that it will be out of the realm of possibilities for me to complete.

 

Everyone, any suggestions on which model to tackle next would be greatly appreciated...and if I know how much I need to spend I can start saving now so I can purchase her when the SF is near completion

[hamilton]

Hello Robbyn:

 

Good to hear that AL are listening. I wanted to make the SF, but the more I read about the SF2, the less I wanted to build it! I took a good long while to find the original double-planked version of the kit, so as to avoid single planking in mahogany...

 

In any case, I'll continue to follow your build! Great work so far

hamilton

[fish]

Robbyn,

 

Are the dummy ports bigger than the precut gun ports in the bulwarks? It almost looks like that from your pictures. I haven't look at mine yet.

 

Aaron

[fish]

Yep, they are just a tad bit smaller.

[Bedford]

I appreciate what you are saying Robbyn, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

As stated before, my next build will be the Royal Caroline which is an incredibly ornate ship from 1749, I also want to build the Victory but neither of these ships are for the novice, you need a few down the slipway before taking these on.

 

Steve

[Shazmira]

Aaron, yes, my upper gun ports are 8mm x 8mm and the lower are 11mm x 11mm

[Shazmira]

Kept busy today, finished lining the bulwarks

 

Worked on the pieces for the bow

 

Got the false keel attached

 

Then spent some hours doing some painting of small metal parts

[Shazmira]

Now I am quite stuck. I am trying to assemble the rudder pieces (I think that is the correct terminology) But I don't have a clue how to do this properly. I can;t figure out how to "make" my hinges at all. If I just try to squeeze the channel around the wire I can't seem to get it tight enough to hold the wire in place. I don't believe I am supposed to glue the wire in, then the rudder would not move on the hinges as it should. My pieces for the hinges are too long as well, and extend over the end of the rudder. I suppose they can be trimmed off if I need to.

Please someone tell me what I am missing here....

 

This is the parts the instructions call for

 

These are my parts

 

The instructions say to make the hinges using 10mm of the provided wire, then to attach the 3 hinges to the rudder at the notches. But it is obvious that the hinges are longer than my rudder. But does appear by the instruction photo that they may have been trimmed to length. But how do I use the wire to make the hinges????

 

 

 

[fish]

Lol, when I looked at the instructions I saw this page and was scratching my head. I hope someone chimes in who has the answer cause I don't...thank Artesania Latina!

[src]

Robbyn,

Just discovered your build. Its coming along nicely. Looks like you got your stain problem fixed?

What!?!?! your not watching the Oscars?

As far as your hinge question about the hinges. THink about your hinges on your house or cabinet doors. the hinge knuckle which would be the brass strips need something to pivot around. That would be the hinge pin or your wire bits. I have not had to do this yet on my build, but I think you will need to glue, epoxy or solder your pins to one half of the knuckle and then drop it into the other half so gravity hold it in place. 

I hope this helps I know I am not explaining it as well as I should. I can see it in my minds eye, but am having trouble converting that to words.

Sam

[src]

Robbyn,

I did a down and dirty mock up of what I was trying to explain. I believe this is the correct way. It is possable that the pin goes pointing UP and the rudder drops over. On the old MSW there was a tip in the building tips forum that showed this as well as a cool little tool to make the crimp, its gone for now. Good luck, hope this helps.

Sam

 

 

[Bedford]

Hi Robbyn.

Ok, this is a common problem and you will find most models have it. The hinges are mass produced and not model specific.

I don't use brass rod as they suggest, I use some of the brass nails supplied with the kit instead and cut them to length. the head of the nail sits at the top and prevents the pin dropping out. This is probably quite accurate too, look at your household door hinges.

 

Yes, cut the hinges to length as best you can so the nail holes seem sensible.

 

I re-form the hinges by putting the nail in the hinge pin part and using different pliers I have which are a bit specialised. You could get a nipping tile cutter and file or grind it down till it creases the hinge around the pin better and then while still holding it with them you force the brass down on a hard piece of timber or metel that is as thick as the keel and reshape the bends to fit better. Do the same with the other side of the hinge for the rudder.

 

I will try and get some pics to explain better.

 

Note, you may not need to do this but to soften the brass and make it easy to bend heat it til it is going a pinky red colour then quench it in water. Now you will appreciate the coals in your wood fire!

[Shazmira]

Sam,love your mock up, thank you very much for the visual aid...I always learn better when I can see it. After I posted my question I sat down at the table and scratched my head for a bit while looking at the parts. Knowing the concept was one thing, putting that knowledge into something that works was something else lol. I ended up doing pretty much what you said, only I glued the bottom half since the instructions put both parts of the hinge on the rudder, and the second loose side of the hinge to be nailed to the ship...hope that makes sense.

 

First I opened up the hinges flat so I could get a sharp bend.

 

Then I slid the "pin" in the channel and crimped it with a pair of wire cutters...very gently so as not to cut the soft material

 

That seemed to give me a much tighter channel to hold the pin, so I tried attaching the first hinge, with the aid of a drop of CA glue to hold the bottom of the pin in the lower hinge half

 

Seemed to work so I did the other two hinges in the same manner

 

Carved down the tip of the rudder a bit in order to get the handle on...will need to paint that...but not sure what color

 

[russ]

Robbyn:

You have made a fairly good job of the rudder hinges. The materials they give are not all that great, but you have solved it well enough. It will look good in the end. Nice work.

 

Russ

[Shazmira]

Bedford, I never thought about using the nails....I think that would have worked much better and allowed the hinges to seat up in the gaps cut into the rudder better. I considered heating up the brass, but had no idea how hot would be too hot and didn't figure I could afford to mess up a hinge, as I have no idea how I would get a replacement part. I wish I had a tool that could get me a tighter bend (corner) on the hinges. I think then they would lay in those gaps batter as well. So tell me, is mine okay, or should I take it apart and redo it?

[russ]

When heating brass strips, just heat until it glows red. Then take the heat away and let it cool. No water.

 

Russ