dust extraction

[peewee]

Now that I have my Byrne's disk sander it has become obvious to me that dust and its pitfulls needs to be sorted. Not to mention I share the workshop with the admirals glass making.

 

What do others use for their dust extraction? Currently it is only dust that is my concern but I am sure chips will be creates in due course.

 

Regards

Ian

[mtaylor]

I'm low dollar on my solution.... a shop vac that gets moved from one tool to another.. Others used a bigger system with hard piping, etc.

[jud]

Might add to the shop vac system, another home grown system that uses a fan to circulate the air in the room. Place a furnace filter inside a shroud to force the fan discharge or intake through that filter, then clean or change often. That should trap most of the dust that the vacuum can't get. You might even find that running the home grown system, when the vac is not needed, has it's advantages.

jud

[nobotch]

I hook up a self built cyclone separator between the dust/chip prodiuction site and the vacuum. This saves me dust bags (none at all needed) and keeps fine dust filters (if present) from clogging up too quickly.

 

I built my cyclone according to the scaleable plans of Bill Pentz's model (for those interested in building one: it helps a lot to read Bill's build-instructions on his website here and here).  Its geometry is well calculated and the cyclone is very effective. But there are also simpler models of separators (less effective, let more fine particles through to the filter), like for example the Thien baffle Matthias Wandel shows here.

 

I took this picture of my cyclone a few years ago. Now the cyclone and the shop vac sit on a plywood board with 4 small swiveling wheels

[peewee]

Cheers all. I like the idea of homemade

[testazyk]

My even more low dollar solution--I do major cutting and sanding either outside or in the garage because you're right, the dust gets everywhere!

[Landlubber Mike]

I have my workshop in my basement utility room.  I have a shop vac attached to my Byrnes power tools, and recently bought this Rikon air filter which was on a big sale recently at Woodcraft:

 

http://www.woodcraft.com/product/857601/RIKON%203Speed%20Air%20Cleaner%20with%20Remote%20Control%20Model%2062100.aspx

 

 

I know that you are in the UK, but maybe they have a comparable product.  This unit is made to sit on your workbench or suspended from the ceiling.  I have limited bench space, so this weekend I hung it from hooks screwed into the joists in my utility room's ceiling.  The shop vac does a good job of pulling out most of the wood dust, but I feel better knowing that the filter should hopefully take out the very small dust particles that the shop vac didn't get.

 

As Jud said, you can make your own as well.

[robnbill]

All those are good ideas. Han I was planning my workspace I knew I have to install a good dust collection system. So each of my machines is piped thorough the duct work to the machine. When a gate is opened on the system the collector automatically comes on. I also installed two ambient dust collectors like Mike has (Delta brand on mine) and they recall the air in the shop to remove fine dust that did not get sucked into the collector. 

 

The cyclone certainly makes the shop cleaner since it removed the majority of the dust created when using a tool. However it is the fine particulate that does not get removed since it leaves the blade while it is away from the cyclones suction that causes the most issues for health as well as the fine dust that collect on everything. Ambient collectors go a great deal forward in removing that from the air. 

 

On mine, I can set them on three different speeds and a timer so they can be turned on and continue to run after I leave the shop. The cyclone runs while the tools is running. The ambient collectors continue to run after until the dust is no longer in the air. Together each part of the DC system operate well and keep the dust to a minimum. 

 

One other thing to keep in mind, While PVC makes easy work of running a pipe between the Shop vacuum system and a tool, it also creates it's own hazard. As the dust moves through it a high speed it creates a static charge. Under the right conditions this static can cause s spark that can ignite the dust in the system. Running a ground wire through the pipe end to end solves this problem.

[nobotch]

A well designed cyclone lets about 10% of the smaller than 5 micron sized particles through to the filter. Of course, no dust collection system will deal with the dust it did not capture, regardless if hooking up or not a cyclone between the machinery and the blower / shop vac. This sounds trivial, but picking up the dust right where it has been produced is essential (as close as possible to where the blade tip or sandpaper makes contact with the wood).

 

Since dust collection does not get more efficient than the design of the hood is, there is still o lot of room for improvement there (more openly speaking, it is generally a very poor design. The older, and also the smaller the machine is, the worse the design regarding dust pickup is, Proxxon, Byrnes and similar saws are no exception. Festool claims to have better dust collection but they don't make many (or any) tool really fitted for model making, and I don't know how much better they really are, but they seem to be better designed than other hand held powertools. Also Saw Stop also seems to have done an excellent job there. (I'm not affiliated with any of the mentioned companies).

 

By the way, static discharge igniting dust in a small scale dust collection systems (leave alone a shopvac based system) is one of those dust collection myths (you may want to read this here). And in any case, grounding a PVC pipe is simply not possible, you can put a wire in the tubing but it will have no effect.

 

One real danger of dust ignition though lies in the dust bin, not in the ducting of small scale dust collectors with 6"-ish ducts: when cutting through let's say a nail and the glowing debris lands in the dust bin you'd better not walk away when you believe the job is done. But then again, with small machinery as it gets typically used in model ship building this is very unlikely going to be a point of interest (I don't remember having ever used wood with nails in it when working on small projects).

Edited October 28, 2014 by nobotch

[robnbill]

Interesting on the PVC. I actually have a fine dust filter that filters the air leaving my cyclone to .5 Micron. When I installed my system ( well over 10 years now) I decided to put spiral metal ductwork in. Primarily because of the throughput since it is a larger circumference, but also because it was stronger than standard metal ducting.Outside of the Cyclone, I have Delta air handlers that filter ambient air down to 1 Micron. I have two hanging in the workshop since it is long and narrow. Each is set to change the air in a 20x20' room up to 18 times per hour. 

 

Also, since sanding is one of the worst culprits for dust, I have a 4'x3' sanding table that I can hook into the dust control system that pulls a strong downdraft on the top. So I can place the object I am sanding on the table and the dust is all sucked downward and into the cyclone.

 

My biggest concern with my shop was it is in deep the basement of our house so any dust that escapes would find itself throughout the house. I way overbuild the dust collection system so I could counter that. So far it has worked like a charm.

Edited October 28, 2014 by robnbill

[nobotch]

Bill, it looks like you have a very reasonable dustcollection setup. Bigger ducting cross section is goos as long as the blower can keep up delivering a high enough airflow speed in the "fat tubes". I don't think that you can have any overkill at all on dust collection. The big problem with dust is that we only really discover protection is not good enough when it is already too late. Those ambient air filters are a great addition, but they can not replace dust collection right at the machine or even better "at the blade".

[robnbill]

Agreed. I learned my lesson years ago cutting Cocobolo without proper dust and respiratory protection. Now I can't use that wood at all. Luckily the Hardwood store bought back the wood I had not used yet. This was my old house shop so my partner had to actually clean and wipe everything down before I could go back into it. I had become highly allergic to it.

 

So when I was building this shop out I actually had engineers at Penn State Industries  design the dust collection system. You are absolutely correct that too large of ducting with an underpowered motor would not work. There are also losses of suction at every bend and fitting due to friction within the system, so I looked to the professionals to help me with my system. They called my shop the bowling alley because it is long and narrow. 

 

Since the system is fully ducted throughout my shop, I also have drops that are sweeps so I can sweep the dust on the floor into them. I also have 4" flexible hose that connects to rolling sweeps and handheld to assist in cleaning around the benches and under saws where the dust still manages to slip by.

 

Penn Industries was great to work with and their design has worked well. I just installed the Sawstop with their under and overhead dust collection. They claim the high 90's  in collection. I will know once I start cutting the wood for the Eagle but that is a bit out since I am working on the rigging on my Connie now.

Edited October 28, 2014 by robnbill

[Grimber]

you can also reduce the dust spreading by just hanging some plastic sheeting  around the sanding/dust generating station(s).   even some shower curtains and shower curtain rods hung from the ceiling then have your shop vac running inside that plastic off area.  don't like looking for the opening in the plastic,  heavier mil plastic and cut in strips, making something like they use in walk in freezers.  Doesn't cut out all the spread of dust but can really reduce it, and its cheap to set up.

 

**edited**  oh if the plastic 'floats' around,  tape some heavy washers ( or anything with weight) to the bottom edges

Edited October 28, 2014 by Grimber

[Grimber]

if you want to do it fancy/professional you can get one of the slider tracks for the ceiling and the wire shower curtain loops .  hook them into the track sliders and then hang your heavy mil plastic.  would be like one of them privacy divider curtains they use in the hospital you can push back when not sanding.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Grimber

[mtaylor]

I saw a shop like Grimber describes except they used a damp bedsheet. Not soaking, just sprayed lightly with a spray bottle.  I've also seen this used in paint shops for cars.