Golden Hind 1580 by rschissler - Mamoli - Galleon

[Nisseofsweden]

Hi, Im right now also building the Mamoli kit "Golden Hind" but its short of material for 2.nd planking and I need to get more.

 

According to the instruction its 1x4 mm in material "LN".

 

But what does "LN" stand for?

 

Yours

Nisse of Sweden

[demonborger]

THe cardboard folder the instructions come in should have what the abbreviation stands for.

 

If i recall correctly LN refers to walnut, but note that there are various different types of walnut that exist,

[rschissler]

Nisseofsweden:  Plan on getting a lot of extra wood, in a lot of different sizes.  I was short on several sizes, plus some of the dowels too.  Also, I found the quality of the wood somewhat poor, especially in the smaller sizes, which also meant extra wood purchases.

 

LN is walnut. 

 

Good luck, and let me know if you have any questions. 

Edited April 27, 2015 by rschissler

[rschissler]

Here are the masts, minus the tops and upper trestletrees on the main and foremast.  I thought all  the caps for the kit  were too oversized, so I reduced them significantly.  I made the masts as shown in the plans, but think the diameter of the lower main and foremast seem oversized in relation to the hull, and don't seem in proportion to the uppers.

[rschissler]

I installed the two little inner deck railings with the decorative strips.  I deviated by not including an upper red and white stripe strip.  I did this so that it would blend with the outer railings I previously changed.  I also used 1.5mm x 1.5mm posts instead of 2mm x 2mm the plans called for.

Edited May 7, 2015 by rschissler

[rschissler]

One dilemma I faced was whether to add mast wedges.  The plans did have anything and there was a little gap around the masts, when installed in the deck.  For such a small scale item, I couldn't see doing anything too elaborate.  The main mast is 8mm diameter at the base, and the others are even smaller.  I searched and asked for some ideas here on the forum, but didn't really find anything that seemed suitable for the small size. 

 

Anyway, I got an idea to use 3/4" wood banding material for cabinets and shelves, some that I already had on hand.  I'm talking about the kind with the peel away adhesive backing, not the iron on.  I cut off a one inch piece and stained it, then cut off a small strip, with the grain vertical.  I used a brown marker pen to touch up the cut edge.  Then I peeled off the cello backing and wrapped it around the mast base. With the adhesive backing,  It was easy to set in place and wrap it around.  I even used a knife to make a few cuts around it.  I think it looks convincing to pass for wood wedges, and I'll say for 1580, it probably wouldn't have had the canvas coat covering it, that later ships did.

[rschissler]

Another dilemma I had was what to do about (literally) the golden hind?  Isn't it a deer of sorts?  A lot of the paint was off of it and it had a very large base attached to it.  I thought it would look sloppy to put it up there like the plans had it (maybe looking a little too dramatic as well?), so I though to at least cut off the base.  However, the metal was very hard and brittle, and I ended up breaking off both the front and back legs in the process.  The broken pieces seemed too difficult to try and fix, while still grinding off more of the excess.  For the front legs, I got the idea to use the legs from some HO scale figures I had.  I modified them and glued them on with epoxy.  Also, I ground down the rear legs, so that I could have the hind resting on it's body, rather than it's legs.  I also created some separation between the ears, with some additional grinding.

[rschissler]

I made the channels.  There were premade channels in the kit, made from mahogany, but I thought they were a little too thin at 1.5mm.  Instead I made my own from 2mm thick walnut.  You can see where I used one of the stock channels as a template, but added extra wood to fit the  curve of the hull, and also to make the  outer profile straighter, but still allowing a bit of a curve to the edge.  I also drilled holes to accept cut lengths of steel nails, to give them some strength and stability.  I also drilled mating holes in the wales, making sure not to drill clear though the hull in the areas that would show though the inner bulwarks.  I then used epoxy to glue them in place, and painted them to match the wales.  You can also see the slots I cut in the sides of the channels, so the deadeyes would have the proper angles to the mast.

Edited June 6, 2015 by rschissler

[reklein]

I really like your build on the GH. I finished Billings GH a couple years ago and sorta mudled through t. My friend thought enough of it to buy it from me for a good price. I had a lot of trouble with wood quality and replaced most of it using the printwood parts for patterns. I also had a little trouble  getting the right configration for the gun carriages and I think I used Wolfram zu Monds book as a reference. I particularly like your paintwork which is so nice and sharp and colorful. I rigged mine with full sails which I paid to have sewn for me buy one of my wifes quilting freinds and used acrylic paint for the heraldry. There was a real sense of accomplishment on my part when I finally finished it.  

     Keep up the good work. Bill

[Kihon]

I'm astounded at this, so beautiful. It has inspired me to go back to mine that I started 15 years ago. I had never and still haven't made a wooden model ship and was a bit overwhelmed at it all but with more years of life experience etc behind me now, and this post, I think I could give it a go.

 

Please keep the posts coming.

 

As a note I cannot understand how the chain plates supplied in the box are supposed to be used, they look nothing like the illustrations in the plans.

 

Ciaran.

[rschissler]

Ciaran:  I noticed this too with the chainplates, as I have with a few other items from the kit--drawings and instructions not matching items in the kit.

 

Anyway, I've decided to make my own chainplates, since I think the kit ones are too bulky and odd.  I'll detail at some date.  Also, since I'm going to use triangular deadeyes, the round link in the kit won't work, so I'll have to make my own with that too.

 

Randy

[Kihon]

Great, I await your posts.

As you say some of the plans are different than supplied parts I noticed especially the crows nests so I'm going to try to follow your method.

Cheers

[rschissler]

Another thing I just changed were the three doors.  The kit came with metal castings for these, and no matter how much time I spent painting them, I always thought they looked crude and sloppy.  So, I pried the glued items off the model and made new ones from scratch.  The first and last pictures show the metal doors for comparison.

 

I started with 1.5mm x 1.5mm posts and glued them to small pieces of 1.5mm x 7mm  strip.  I did it this way because I knew it would be impossible to bend wood that extreme of a curve. This made the outer frame.  I only cut and filed the inner curve of the frame at this time, because I thought it would break from being so fragile. I painted the frame with the same yellow paint I used on the ship trim.

 

For the door itself, I glued strips of 1mm x 2mm strip together.  I finished the doors by staining and then applying some clear filler to fill the ugly gaps.  I then filed them to fit the frames.  Then I glued them to the frames, filed off the outer curve and painted that.

 

For the hinges I used some HO scale Grandt Line hinges, and modified them a bit.  For the door handle, I made from scratch with .012" brass wire. The bottom of the three doors is slightly different.  One in shorter, and one has to be at an angle somewhat to match the deck.

 

The door size reinforces my thoughts that that the listed scale of 1:53 for this kit, can't be right.  It has to be more like 1:64 or smaller.

Edited July 19, 2015 by rschissler

[Kihon]

Please say you'll be back with more details!

[rschissler]

Yes, I'm finally back!  Because of travel and some other things, a few months went by without dong anything on the model.  Also, I was entering an intimidating phase, involving the deadeyes and shrouds.

 

The kit came with round deadeyes and I knew that it really needed triangular deadeyes, because of the time period.  Commercially, 5mm and 7mm triangular deadeyes are the only premade ones available.  I needed some as small as about 3.5mm, so I was in a quandary.  Fortunately, Chuck of Syren was able to custom make all the deadeyes I wanted at whatever sizes I needed.  They are the type that are a kit:  they have to be glued together, then processed (rounding the edges in a Blockbuster) and stained. It took awhile to figure out what I needed, realizing that the processing reduces them by about .40mm in height. 

 

Shown by the first picture, I used a piece of line to figure out the proper angles to the channels, and the holes for the chainplates.  I used brass wire to wrap around the lower deadeyes, then twisted the ends, then soldered them and inserted in the holes in the channels.

 

The lower picture shows the piece of stripwood that I used to keep the deadeyes at a uniform distance.  I always hate models with upper deadeyes that are extremely uneven.  The lower clips have steel nuts taped to them to weigh down the lanyards, until I could tighten them up and put a drop of CA on last hole to secure them.

 

One difficulty with the triangular deadeyes, is that it is harder to tighten the shrouds around them, as opposed to round ones.  Maybe that is why shipbuilders eventually went to round ones?

 

Hopefully in a few days, I can update with the finished shrouds and  my scratchbuilt chainplates.

Edited November 19, 2015 by rschissler

[rschissler]

Here are my finished chainplates, triangular deadeyes, and shrouds.

 

The real ship picture shows a shot from one of the two (very different from each other) full scale replicas of the Golden Hind.  This is  what I decided to model my chainplates from.  You can see that it is just an iron strap with one bolt head securing it to the hull. 

 

The first picture shows the flat brass bar from Detail Associates and Amati fine nails that I used.  For the chainplates on the smaller deadeyes on the rear, I had to file down the diameter of the heads of the nails somewhat, so they wouldn't be wider than the smaller brass bar used there.  For attaching the chainplate straps to the channels, I originally planned to solder them to the soldered ends of the brass wire deadeye wraps that protruded through the holes in the channels, but I used CA instead.  I had to do some filing on the wire ends to get them the right angles to the chainplate straps.

 

The second picture shows shows an example of the deadeyes and chainplate assembly that came with the kit, in contrast to what I did for my model.  As you can see, the kit parts look very oversize and bulky, plus the single strap I used is more appropriate for the time period of the Golden Hind.

 

In  my last post, I showed the predrilled holes I made for the chainplate nails, by using the line to find the correct angles.  Even so, I had a adjust a few of the holes, to keep the chainplate straps aligned with the shrouds, when looking at them straight on. Also, since each chainplate was at a different angle and length, I had to fit each one individually.

 

--Randy

Edited November 23, 2015 by rschissler

[md1400cs]

Randy,

 

Just discovered your log. Beautiful, I also really like how you applied the decorative strips, looks as though they are painted wood excellent. In fact all of your details are first-rate. I will also follow along. I'll be back when I have time to read all of your excellent notations. Very nice build log indeed.

 

Cheers,

 

Michael

[rschissler]

I installed the three windows the kit called for.  Two on the transom, and another on a bulkhead toward the rear.  If you look at the first picture, you will see the green kit windows.  I thought these were weird and the proper windows for the time period would have been Tudor windows.  Tudor windows used diamond shaped panes of glass, inserted into lead frames. 

 

What I ended up using, you can see in the rest of the first picture.  On the plastic window frames, I cut away the sill and narrowed the edge, so it didn't look like a modern window.  I then painted them to look like wood.  I cut a piece of the mesh, and coated one side pretty heavy with Microscale Kristal Klear to form the glass.  It has the consistency and look of white glue, but when it dries it is gloss.  If too much seeped into the other "good" side, I wiped it away with my finger.  When dry, I then cut them to size to fit the window frames, and glued them into cutouts made on the ship hull.

[JesseLee]

Much better windows!

[Tadeusz43]

Hi,

Replica of Golden Hind in London

 

Tadeusz

[rschissler]

Hi Tad,

 

Nice picture of you next to the Hind.  I've always found it interesting that this replica, and the other one at Brixham are very different, as is my model.  I've read that the original Golden Hind sat docked in retirement for almost 100 years as a historical attraction, and yet no one painted a picture of it or made any drawings to preserve a historical record of it.

[Tadeusz43]

Hi,

I think Golden Hind in Brixham is not ship replica. 
It is  only a tourist ship constructed with visible modern adds not 
existing in original GH period. 
See rigging screw in shrouds and steering wheel on the deck.

http://www.geograph.org.uk/more.php?id=2665776

http://www.partworkmodels.co.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=269

 

Tadeusz

 

[rschissler]

I added the tops and upper shrouds.  In an earlier post, I showed how I made the tops, but hadn't painted them.  I decided to paint them to match the lower railings.

 

A deviation I made from the kit plans, was to attach the lower deadeyes to the floor of the tops, instead of the top railings of the tops.  I just thought that was a better decision, and don't think it detracts from it.

 

Yes, I know that I still need to attach the ratlines and futtock shrouds, but that and some more work on all the stays should complete the standing rigging.

 

--Randy

[rschissler]

Belaying Pin Dilemma?

 

While the kit plans call for belaying pins, and I've already installed belaying pin racks on my model, I debating whether to tear them all out for the sake of historical accuracy?  While  W. Mondfeld's book and other sources don't provide specific dates on the early use of belaying pins, the most logical time period seems to not be until the 17th century.  I don't know why ship builders didn't keep better records back in those days. LOL!

 

The  English ship Mary Rose sank in 1545, and parts of it have been brought up in the last several years.  If you search on the internet, you will find a quote of "belaying pins were found during the excavation of the Mary Rose,"  but is this a credible source?  Or,  is there anything to say they were used on the Mary Rose?  If you go to the Mary Rose official website, you will find pictures and information about objects that have been recovered, but nothing relating to belaying pins.

 

The Jamestown ship Susan Constant was from 1605, and I've seen a reference that said it had some use of divers pins for belaying ropes, but even that seems vague.

 

On the other hand, the recovered wreckage of the Swedish ship Vasa, launched in 1627, shows considerable use of belaying pins.  But, that was 50 years after the Golden Hind, not English, and part of the 17th century.

 

The two real size replicas of the Golden Hind and most different models I've seen, show belaying pins in use.  However, I wonder if this is mainly because of navigational and modeling ease, or that there is nothing to say that belaying pins weren't used.  Other than some vague descriptions of the Golden Hind, there is very little concrete historical information on it's design and accoutrements.  That seems to be why there are such differences in the replicas and models alike.

 

While I don't mind tearing out the pin racks on my model,  I do question whether there is enough room to add all the needed kevels, staghorns, and cleats, to accommodate the lines that need belaying.  I did read that some lines on earlier ships where attached to railings and shrouds, so that might help.

 

--Randy

Edited December 22, 2015 by rschissler

[Tadeusz43]

Hi,

Evidence suggests that the pins were used already on Viking ships.

In the Viking Ship Museum in Roskilde, Denmark are shown on the model of the boat and on educational reconstruction of boat interior.

 

 

Also on Cog Medieval ships simple form of the belaying pins was used.

As show pictures taken on Cog replicas.

 

         Wissemara                                                                                                                                        Roland von Bremen

Merry Christmas and Happy modeling in New Year

 

Tadeusz

Edited December 22, 2015 by Tadeusz43

[rschissler]

Thanks Tadeusz for the Viking and cog pictures.  Except, instead I think I may be more confused. 

 

Maybe there is no clear cut answer,  and a ship from the late 1500's  having belaying pins can't be discounted?  Perhaps my plan should be to reduce the number of belaying pins as much as possible, and just have a few in the most likely places?  So, if I did that, where would that be, or what particular lines? 

[rschissler]

Here's something I should have noticed sooner.  In W. Mondfeld's book, which I have relied on almost exclusively, devotes several pages in the beginning of his book about having a plan to build a historically accurate model ship.  The section is titled "The Plan,"  and in it he outlines "a list of factors to show how an accurate and practical model construction plan should look."  Ironically, in this section are a set of drawings that are almost exact to the model I am building, of a small English galleon from 1588.  Interestingly, it also shows all the same belaying pin locations that are on my model plans.  If you have the book, you might take a look.  Mondfeld even has his signature next to some of the drawings.  The main difference between these drawings and my kit model is that mine doesn't have sails and staghorns.

 

Later in the book when talking about fiferails, he makes it sound like belaying pins weren't added until the 17th century, and includes drawings to show this.  So, that's a contradiction.

[rschissler]

While the kit doesn't have a plan for sails, I've decided to have loosely furled sails.  And since the kit didn't have any points to belay sail lines to  either, I made up some staghorns for the course sheets and tacks, and some braces.  While I had seen some pictures of staghorns with fancier curves than mine, I think they are adequate. The walnut pieces are made from 1.5mm thick stock.

[rschissler]

Like I said before, the kit is sail less, so I am adding sails.  And because of that, I have to create all the rigging for  the sails.  Here are my additions for belaying the main and fore sheets and tacks.  The main tack will go through the chesstree on the bulwark, then through the hole to a staghorn inside I created from my previous post.  The fore tacks will go through the two holed piece I attached to the knee of the head, then through the head area and belayed to a staghorn near the bowsprit. 

 

The rectangular hole in the bulwark is supposed to represent a sheave, which seems to be a 16th century thing, and that is where the fore sheet will go, belayed to a staghorn inside.  Though I don't show it in the pictures, a similar sheave is in the bulwark towards the rear, for the main sheet.

[rschissler]

Previous posts, I debated on the use of belaying pins in the 16th century, and whether to have them on my model.  Well, I decided to keep them.  Without any strong evidence or opinions not to have them, I decided to have them. 

 

So, once I decided to have belaying pins, my next dilemma was what to use for belaying pins.  The kit came with 8mm wood ones, and the picture below shows an example of one on them on the far left.  You can see that it doesn't look much like  a belaying pin should look.  While I've seen larger wood belaying pins that looked decent, the 8mm ones just don't cut it.  I tried modifying the wood ones, but couldn't get them consistent for such a small size.  So, it seemed like I would have to go with brass ones.  I had previously seen some 8mm brass pins from Model Shipways, and Billings boats, but I didn't like the shapes of them, so decided not to use them either. 

 

The second pin in the picture is a 5/16" one that I purchased from Bluejacket.  You can see that the top looks like it has been chopped off.  While the overall shape looks pretty good, I decided not to use these.

 

The third pin in the picture is an 8mm one from Amati.  While the shape of these aren't perfect either, I thought they looked the best, so that's what I've decided to use.

 

The fourth pin in the picture is an Amati pin that has been colored to hopefully look more like wood than brass and metal.

Edited February 28, 2016 by rschissler