US Brig Oneida 1809 by rlb - The Lumberyard - 1:48 scale - POF - Lake Ontario Warship

[rlb]

Thanks Dowmer. 

 

While I was looking at photos of headrails, I saw one or two versions of a simple scroll figurehead, one of which was kind of similar to Chapelle's.  Oh well, I wanted the star!

 

With the sun making an appearance through the window, here's the current billethead.  It fits on the stem now just about the way it needs to--

 

Though it looks like the bowsprit is resting on the billethead, there is a very slight gap, as there should be, between them.

 

Continuing with the starboard headrail now, after taking off material to thin it down, it's held up to the bow to evaluate its shape.  (The cheeks have also been glued in place to help in judging the curve of the headrail)--

 

It's still needs much thinning down, but there is a worse problem.  It drops too low over the hawse holes (hidden in shadow).   I could possibly cut off some of the upper end where I'm holding it with the tweezers, but then I don't think the curve is going to look right at the aft end.

 

I cut another piece, with a slightly flatter curve, worked on it for a while and here it is--

 

This also still needs much thinning down, but I'm satisfied with the basic shape. 

 

That being the case, I marked the port side headrail on a piece of my diminishing stock of Castello Boxwood--

 

Ron

 

 

Edited February 23, 2020 by rlb

[shipmodel]

Hi Ron - 

 

As always, I truly admire your perseverance, commitment, and craftsmanship.  Please keep up the great work.

Your carving of the scroll is beautiful, clean and crisp.  I tried a complicated headpiece on my Oneida, but couldn't carve small enough to do it.  I ended up just using a simple volute scroll.  In any event, since she was built in the small undeveloped hamlet of Sackett's Harbor, and in a hurry to launch before the British, I'm not sure that she would have had anything complex.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

Dan

[rlb]

Thanks Dan.  And thanks for the photo!  I like your simple volute, and you're most likely right that there wasn't the time or manpower for anything 'extra' under the conditions the ship was built.

 

Ron

[Martin W]

Great work, Ron.  Your skill with handtools is impressive -- I have to admire the precision you attain.  And that billethead especially is a charmer.  I personally find 5 pointed stars almost impossible to get symmetrical.

 

Could you say a bit more about your ebonizing technique?  What is quebracho bark extract, and where  do you get it?

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Thistle17]

How did I ever miss this build log! In reading earlier posts I can only say that I appreciate your sense of the what elements of your work bring satisfaction and those that don't that haunt you. I can relate and at times i find it a curse in this model building pursuit. Nonetheless your work is inspiring and a joy to now follow. Your work is excellent.

 

If you are ever in the Rochester area we have a small model group. Our web site is www.modelshipwrightguildwny.org. Although we have members from Syracuse and Buffalo (and even Lisbon Portugal) it would be a trek to have you attend one of our meetings. You may be interested to know that the Niagara Model's group will be holding an open house in June of this year just over the border. They have some fantastic modelers. We plan to attend. Look under the topical heading dealing with model club news and events to learn more.

Joe 

[rlb]

Thanks so much, Martin.  Yes, the stars are a challenge!   Back on page 2, post #51 about halfway down that long page, I go into more detail about the ebonizing.  I'm very happy with the color it makes; a very rich neutral black, not too warm or cold.  And since it's not paint, the wood still looks like wood.

 

Thanks Joe, glad you found my log.   I grew up in Spencerport, and my parents still live there, so I am back a few times a year.  I'd love to drop in on one of your meetings if the timing works out!

 

Ron

 

 

[rlb]

A small update.

 

Work continues on the cheeks and headrail.  The primary cheek pieces are glued.  The headrail is dry-fit, still some fine tuning to do.  And the upper cheek piece as it connects to the scroll is roughed out, and dry-fit.  It also needs some further shaping work--

 

Ron

 

[Trussben]

She looks good Ron, but it was better seeing her in real life the other day.

 

ben

[rlb]

Hi ben,

 

I thoroughly enjoyed my visit, seeing your workshop, your finished and current builds, and talking ship modeling, wood, books and tools .  It was inspiring, and I'm looking forward to doing it again sometime!  And you pushed me over the edge--a Byrnes disc sander is on the way to my home!

 

Ron 

Edited March 3, 2020 by rlb

[Trussben]

I too enjoyed the visit, you will not be sorry with the Byrnes sander purchase.

 

ben

[rlb]

Work on the starboard lower cheek bracket:

 

After my first attempt at the bracket, which I could tell (before getting very far) was not curved enough, I made a rough card template--

 

Using files, and a sanding block, roughed out the shape--

 

Test fitting on the model.  I am not happy with the curve.  It is still too flat, and not a good transition from the lower cheek--

 

Trying again, this one is better--

 

The three attempts, and using the third one, traced it for the port side bracket (or a fourth starboard try if needed!)--

 

Scraped the molding profile into the bracket--

 

And glued it in place--

 

I will move on to the port side cheek brackets, and then I need to finish work on the bowsprit and it's step.  The bowsprit will need to be installed with it's gammoning, before finishing the headrail work.

 

Ron

Edited March 7, 2020 by rlb

[Dowmer]

Ron, nicely done.  I like the curve of your final attempt.  It's taking shape nicely. 

[rlb]

Thanks, Dowmer.

 

Bees update:

 

I cut notches into the bowsprit to receive the bees, which exist at this point as the rectangles laying on both sides of the bowsprit--

 

 

Next the bees were glued on.  I purposefully made them just a hair too thick, so they sat just proud above the notches.  Then, when sanded down level with the bowsprit, it made my joinery talent look better than it really is!  The block slots were marked, the ends drilled and then cut out as best I could.  I don't have any files that can get inside a slot that narrow, so I used the chisel and knife from both sides.  The photo makes them look rougher than they do to the naked eye.  There are also some distracting grain streaks in the wood of the bees, but this part of the bowsprit will be stained black, so that's okay--

 

Next was making the bee blocks.  (Just love some of this terminology.)  I cut the slots, and glued simulated sheaves in the proper spots, port forward, starboard aft (We're looking from underneath here!).  I was careful to angle the front of the bee blocks where they meet the angled bowsprit cap--

 

Whoops.  When I glued one, and test fit the bowsprit cap, I noticed the block was wider than the cap, which looked odd.  Sure enough, after re-checking a photo in David Antscherl's FFM book IV (which I recently acquired), the bee blocks clearly don't extend to the cap.  The glue hadn't set yet, so I was able to pry the block off, and after altering both of them to be more correct, glued them in place on the bowsprit--

 

Here is the bowsprit, fit on the ship--

 

 

Finishing the cap is next, then the bowsprit seat/bitts (where the weight of the pin vice is holding down the end of the bowsprit at an approximately correct angle), and then a few more bowsprit details before it gets permanently attached.

 

Ron

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by rlb

[Ebomba]

Beautiful work as always, question, do you have a set of rigging plans for Oneida, if not what sources are you using as a guide?

 

Best,

Ed

[rlb]

Thanks Ed!  Good question.  I have a spar and sail plan for Oneida from Christian Bergh (via Chapelle), which gives me the mast and spar lengths, but not much beyond that.  From there I am using many sources to piece together the info.  Lees' Masting and Rigging to give me the tapering and other shaping info, (and when I get to it, multiple other rigging details), David Antscherl's FFM for various mast and spar details, Chuck Passaro's Syren drawings and instructions, as that is also a brig, for the rigging details.  I expect to use his Syren drawings (especially the belaying plan) as a main guide when I get to the rigging.  And, I peruse the MSW gallery of contemporary models, and member completed models, to learn whatever I can.

 

Ron

Edited March 8, 2020 by rlb

[rlb]

Bees confusion.

 

Last night I was tired and didn't feel like doing much, so I climbed into bed early with a stack of ship modeling books.

 

The first thing I looked at was Lees' drawing of a bowsprit, showing the sheaves in the bees in opposition to what I had modeled!  He had the port sheave aft, and the starboard sheave forward.   I had followed the FFM, which is the opposite.  What to do?  I didn't end up sleeping well.

 

In the morning ensued a search of everything I could find.  I just wanted to know how I should be modeling this on Oneida.

 

I looked at Lees, Petersson, Underhill, Antscherl FFM, Charles Davis, Chuck Passaro, the MSW galleries of contemporary and member models, Frolich's Cygne and Le Cyclope models (which can be seen online), and and Glenn Greico's model of the Jefferson (also online at the TAMU website).

 

All seemed to show the topmast stay on the starboard side, and the topmast preventer stay on the port side.  Okay.  Frolich's models showed the stays both in the forward holes (maybe a French thing), but the contemporary model of Thunderer/Hercules in the MSW gallery, and Grieco's Jefferson, a brig built shortly after and in the same general area as Oneida, show the topmast stay starboard forward, and the topmast preventer stay port aft.

 

Hercules/Thunderer--

 

Jefferson--

 

So I decided that was the way to go.

 

I removed the bee blocks and sheaves--

 

 

And reglued them.  Also, this time I centered the sheaves (vertically) in the bee blocks, not offset as I did before--

 

Hopefully I will sleep better tonight.

 

Ron

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2020 by rlb

[src]

Ron,

Always a pleaseure dropping in on your build. Good to see you back and  your usual outstanding workmanship.

Sam

[rlb]

Sam, it's a pleasure to have you drop in again.  I think I have built up a big enough head of steam to keep me going longer than my last couple of bursts.  I'm excited to be modeling again.

 

Ron

Edited March 13, 2020 by rlb

[rlb]

Work on the Bowsprit Bitts:

 

I started the notches for the crosspiece with the saw--

 

The notches in both the uprights and the crosspiece were cut out with the saw, a knife, and files.  The knees are temporarily glued together so they can be identically shaped, and the small piece you see next to the file will go underneath the bowsprit tenon, near the deck--

 

The shaped knees are easily separated with isopropyl alcohol--

 

Here are the pieces of the bowsprit bitts.  You should be able to detect the slight upward angle of the knees because the deck is sloping up at the bow.  Full disclosure, the uprights are probably a little oversized, and they should probably be tapered as they go below the deck, but I made them very early in the build, when I wasn't aware of such details, and I planked the deck around them.  I do not have a problem letting this go as is--

 

Here are the uprights, knees and cross piece dry fit--

 

There is one problem, which in this case, I do not want to let go as is.  If you look at the main bitts on the right in the above photo, you see the deck planking goes around them, and they correctly sit on the deck beams below.  With the bowsprit bitts, at the time I planked the deck I didn't think enough about how they would be made, and I planked over the areas where the knees should be.  This means surgery on the deck--

 

I will not carve this out all the way through to the deck beams.  Just enough so it looks like the deck is planked around the knees.  Here are the two shallow knee slots carved out--

 

And the knees dry fit--

 

Now the bowsprit added to get an idea of how it looks all together--

 

The bitts pieces were then glued together.  They were glued while fit on the ship, so looked exactly like the last photo.  Except for that little piece that goes underneath the bowsprit.  The glued up bitts were taken off, and the little foot piece was glued on, using the bowsprit to space it correctly--

 

So here's the glued up assembly--

 

 

This slides neatly into place, still unglued to the ship itself for now--

 

And with the bowsprit added--

 

It's good it's not glued in yet.  I realized looking at the photos that I had forgotten to very slightly round the edges of the knees, as was done on the main bitts knees.

 

Ron

 

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by rlb

[rlb]

After looking at the bowsprit in place, I wasn't sure I had it at the right angle.  The cap seemed tilted forward a bit.  I pulled the bowsprit out and laid it against the Chapelle drawing, and the angle of the cap to the bowsprit was spot on, so it seemed the bowsprit needed to tilt up a little.  That little chock I put down at the deck needed to move up to the top of the bowsprit tenon, and the bowsprit tenon/heel needed to sit right down on the deck.

 

Here is the chock piece moved to just under the crosspiece--

 

 

And now test fit with the bowsprit--

 

You should be able to see a slight difference in the two following pictures.  The first is before I changed the angle, the second, after--

 

Next I did a trial gammoning, just to get an idea of how to do it, and also to mark on the bowsprit where the cleat should go--

 

The cleat was then cut out.  Following Glenn Greico's model of the brig Jefferson, there is only one wide cleat, on the top of the bowsprit--

 

The gammoning is of tarred rope, so I made a test, one piece stained black, and the other a dark brown.   It's a little hard to see the difference here, but I like the brown better, it's not as stark, a little warmer--

 

 

So, gammoning cleat attached, rope ready with the eye splice in the end--

 

Ron 

Edited March 17, 2020 by rlb

[stuglo]

Beautiful work but where were you when I needed you when I struggled with my Oneida 6 years ago and wasn't even aware of this site. You inspire and will help others

[rlb]

Thanks, stuglo.  Well, six years ago I was right here!  If only you had found the site earlier.  I have great admiration for all those who worked at this ship modeling pre-internet, or at least pre MSW, as you have done.  Though I've always loved ship models, I had never even considered trying to build one--I wouldn't have even known where to start.  Then one day I saw a friend's Canoe that he had built from a Midwest kit.  Pre-internet I suppose I probably would have learned from him where a brick and mortar store was to buy the kits, gotten some advice, etc., and probably have given up on the first try.   Instead, Google was here, and so am I.

 

The Coronavirus precautions have shut down my office today, so I was able to spend some time modeling.

 

Here's the gammoning work--

 

The bowsprit bitts have been glued in, and the bowsprit is now permanently attached.  I didn't glue the bowsprit to anything, but with the gammoning done it's not going anywhere.

 

No sooner did I do this than I regretted it.  Now I have to blacken the forward part of the bowsprit in place, and I'm worried about how my ebonizing is going to work where I have to have a clean line dividing the blackened from unblackened area.   

 

Here is my discarded earlier mast attempt, now being used for experimentation.  On the far right is my first try.  I used some masking tape (removed at this point), and blackened up to the edge of the masking tape.  Unlike paint, which lays on the surface, the ebonizing seeps into the wood.  That part of the photo is a little out of focus, but sure enough, the blackening seeped under the masking tape.  In the middle is an attempt where I am going to use the Tung Oil finish to perhaps seep into the wood and make a barrier.   The same thing on the left, only here I have added some masking tape so that when I take it off before staining, the Tung Oil will have formed a sharper line, with a slight "lip"--

 

Neither of those attempts worked.  The masked version was the worst.  Though curiously, the left side of that one, where I didn't care (and there was no Tung oil finish!), had almost no noticeable bleeding!!  The attempt on the right side of the photo was better as far as the clean line I was trying to achieve--very little bleeding (though it was also against the Tung Oil finish!), but I hadn't managed to paint a very straight line.  I wasn't sure what to learn from this!--

 

The staining doesn't go deep into the hard pear wood, so I tried filing off the seeped areas--

 

That worked okay, but unfortunately there was some re-seepage when I tried applying some Tung Oil finish which was about half diluted with mineral spirits.  [I am considering this after all has been done--maybe the Tung Oil finish, especially when diluted, has the effect of "pulling" the stain.  Though why didn't it do that on the right test?]

 

Thinking about how that back edge had turned out so well, made me try to duplicate it.  I thought it might have been because I didn't try to paint right up to the line with the second part of the blackening mixture, and it had just floated in, meaning that I hadn't brushed the second application to that line, it had just mixed with the "pool" of the first liquid in that area, and that it somehow didn't bleed.

 

Below on the flat wood, the right side is where I tried to duplicate the floating in of the blackening , but at the middle/left, where it mattered, one little blip still bled.  After this, on the left, I tried cutting a line with a knife to try and give a hard edge, and maybe limit the seepage, and again floated the second solution into the first, instead of painting with the brush up to the line.  This pretty much worked.  Then I tried covering this with the more viscous, undiluted, Tung Oil Finish to see if it would stay okay.  I didn't get additional seepage.  (That is also what is shown reapplied to the earlier attempt on the mast.)  I seemed to have some clues to a technique that might work. [More experiments were surely warranted, but sadly not carried out because truly I am more hasty and impulsive than scientific]--

 

My technique on the bowsprit is going to be: 1) Incise a line 2) Paint the first part of the blackening (the Quebracho extract liquid) up to the line 3) Float in the second part (the rusty iron solution), and hope for the best.  Undiluted Tung Oil finish after.   This all would have been so much easier if I hadn't attached the bowsprit first.  Here incising the line--

 

Here blackened--

 

 It worked pretty well, just that one little spot aft of the bees where I went astray with the application of the first part.  I used a knife to (mostly) shave that away--

 

It's not perfect, but it's done.  You can also notice where I had applied finish to the inner part of the bowsprit before I did the gammoning.  The blackened part now also has a coat of finish, but the rest of the bowsprit does not.  I still need to attach some things to it--

 

I have more of this partial blackening to do on the masts.  Hopefully I'll improve my technique.  Why not be done and just paint it?   Part of it is the challenge I guess, but I also don't want these black areas to look different, in color or sheen, than the ones I've already done on the hull. 

 

And all that, from the bitts to the bees, was so I could do the gammoning prior to finishing the headrails.  That's next.

 

Ron

 

 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2020 by rlb

[stuglo]

I know the feeling about lack of patience but you have done pretty well. I'm a 70year old ADD (my wife just says its childishness). May I suggest that the problem of colour run can be mitigated when you put on the bands (the proper word escapes me) of wrapped thread or simulated iron bands. Also attachment of various rigging may hide this. I hope this assuages some anxiety because I have been known to obsess about such things.( PS. count 10 before reacting to a nonbuilder saying its "only a model!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

[src]

Ron,

Its coming along.

Regarding the bleed, refresh my memory, does the blackening react to the wood tannin in some way? If not could you do something like our scenic painters do? They will mask an area and then shoot a light coat of comparable clear over the area to be painted as well as the masking, then lay in their color. would that be an option for you  to stop the bleeding.

EDIT - I see you tried something like that. Missed it in my first read of your post. Although it appear you cleared up to the masking, maybe a bit of clear over the mask would help.

 

Sam

Edited March 17, 2020 by src

[Martin W]

Hi Ron -- That's an interesting series of experiments on getting a sharp line on your blacking.  If the tung oil doesn't prevent the seepage, and if you're thinking of keeping the unblackened area natural and unstained, then why not use something blonde shellac, or varnish, or even polyurethane?  Maybe the blacking would seep under??

 

If you've already said this, forgive me, but where did you source your Swiss pear?  I've started shaping some masts & spars out of a hunk of maple I had, and decided they are much, much too light (pretty close to white).  I've always liked the mellowness of Swiss pear, and think it could be a nice match with the castelllo/boxwood I've used elsewhere, but haven't been able to find a source for modelling sized stock.

 

And let me join the chorus of voices singing praise for your craftsmanship.  Your joinery is beautifully tight and a pleasure to behold!

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[rlb]

Stuglo, the bowsprit and masts won't have the rope bands on this ship.  They are small enough to have been single pieces, not "made" masts built up of many pieces and thus needing the bands.  So no hiding!   Yes, "it's only a model" is a very irritating comment.

 

Sam, yes the iron gall mixture reacts to the tannin in the Quebracho bark extract, and to a lesser extent in the wood itself.  Both parts are watery, so they leach into the wood fibers, which causes the stain to bleed or "creep".   The masking doesn't seem to help much.

 

Martin, I got my Swiss Pear from Dave at the L u m b e r y a r d.  (I had to space that out because when I tried to post, something converted the word to "a wood supplier".  For whatever reason this site changed the text, I hope I am not violating some protocol by mentioning his business)  That was at least 7 years ago.  His website is still up, but I do not know if they are still in business. (I hope so, because I do not know where else to buy modelling wood stock now.) 

 

 

Ron

Edited March 18, 2020 by rlb

[src]

1 hour ago, rlb said:

Sam, yes the iron gall mixture reacts to the tannin in the Quebracho bark extract, and to a lesser extent in the wood itself.  Both parts are watery, so they leach into the wood fibers, which causes the stain to bleed or "creep".   The masking doesn't seem to help much.

 

Ron,

So if you brushed a very thin coat of clear over both the bare wood and the masking at the same time that might stop the bleed. I am a fan of shellac, maybe a 1/2 pound or one pound cut in this instance.

Sam

[Martin W]

Thanks, Ron, I've just placed an order.

 

If I recall correctly, a wood supplier did once advertise on MSW.  I used to have their site bookmarked, but have never ordered anything from them.  If this works, then I'll be thrilled, because in my view there can never be too many wood suppliers.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[rlb]

Thanks Sam.  I will try that out next time I need to ebonize.

Good to know Martin.  I see your text got auto changed also--unless you did that on purpose!  Strange.

 

I am now working on the head timbers.   The farthest one forward is tiny.  I have a strong feeling that this piece wouldn't be anything like what I am trying to make, but I am putting it where it shows on the Chapelle plan.   There are four timbers shown, and if I keep that number, and the spacing, this is what I get.  It is very small on the draft.

 

On the right is one that I started, then quickly realized it wasn't even going to be close.  The one on the left, with the little triangular bit on top (that fits between where the rails come together) is the shape I get when I start to fit it with the head rails on the stem--

 

And in order to hold things together while I check the fit, I have temporarily glued the head timbers together--

 

An early fit shows that the timber, small as it is, is too tall, and I think the headrail is also too thick at this point--

 

So I sanded some off the headrails, and continued to work on the tiny timber piece.

 

The next fitting is getting closer, I need to work on the bottom of it, as it's not sliding down on the stem and sitting on the hair bracket properly--

 

Now it fits about the way it should--in it's messed up way.  If I were a real perfectionist, I would do the billet head again, a little taller (now that the bowsprit angle has been adjusted upward), so that timber wouldn't have to be so ridiculously tiny--

 

It's really small--

 

Now that that piece is done, I unglued the head rails from each other, and again temporarily glued them, this time flat, so I could carve the relief pattern in them.  The second timber is starting to be roughed out.  It will have a more typical shape--

 

Here are the head rails carved.  I am not an experienced carver, and the camera emphasizes all the imperfections.  I may try to smooth the inner area of the lower one, which is starboard, because that's the side that I was thinking to have more visible when I display the model.  I carved the port side second, so naturally it came out a little bit better--

 

Ron

 

 

Edited March 19, 2020 by rlb

[smotyka]

Ron,

 

Thanks so much for your presentation as I hope to build an Oneida based on this build log.  Hope you continue with the masts - just gorgeous so far.

 

I ordered an Oneida back in January from the a wood supplier and they're a bit delayed right now.  They responded to me a few weeks ago thus they are

in business.

 

Edited March 20, 2020 by smotyka
grammar correctoin