Stavanger by mikegerber - Scale 1:15 - RADIO - Colin Archer design

[captainbob]

Ah yes, that's why there needs to be a float test before everything gets covered up.  And again and again, when you are satisfied, you seal the insides.

 

Bob

[mikegerber]

Hi all

Thanks to all visitors for showing in and all the assessments with the like button.

 

@Patrick

Thank you for the nice comment and encouragement.

Do you still have your RC boats? or maybe the one or the other photography?

- about a possible post I would be very happy.  

 

@ Bob

I also thank you for your comment. Yes, 'Stavanger's ' inner surface I have sealed with epoxy and fiber glass tissue. (see also below and post no. 121).

 

As I have mentioned in the last log, the invisible hairline cracks in the wood of the keel were the reason for the water penetration. As the first corrective action, I have treated the keel wood inner side with an Epoxy layer – and after all, the big planked areas were seald from the beginning.

 

But also the external coating has to be waterproof, this means the teaching of the lesson of swelling and shrinkage (see in last post). Therefore I decided to grind down the existing primer generously and to treat the whole outside of the hull with the real stuff!  PRIMOCON (from International) is a one-component primer used in yacht building for the underwater area on all kinds of surfaces - as far as my assumption that what is good enough for the originals for the "little" is right. I have finally used acrylic paint to the final coating.

 

Best regards

Mike

 

Below: 

Work flow as described

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[captainbob]

Looking good, mike.

 

Bob

[Omega1234]

Hi Mike

 

As requested, (I don't intend to hijack your post), here is one my RC models, although it is incomplete. Here's why.

 

All of my RC yachts are stored in various states of neglect in the garden shed. I'll see if I can get some photos later. However, you may recall in an earlier post that I mentioned one of my models had been lost (presumed sunk) in the local river. I was heartbroken, not only because of the cost of the lost equipment, but also because she was fully detailed inside and took more than 24 mths to build. Nonetheless, I immediately set about building a complete replacement copy of the boat so that I could sail it again. Over time, I lost interest in building the replacement model and I chucked it in the workshop, where it's been gathering dust for the past 20 years. The photos of the incomplete replacement boat are below:

 

Cheers

 

Patrick

Edited August 18, 2015 by Omega1234

[mikegerber]

Hi Bob,  hi Patrick

 

For this time, only a briefly touch. I will check back in September on this log, giving you feedback and continue the reports - until then ...

 

... holiday!   

 

All the best,

Mike

[Timmo]

Mike, I've just realised your stunning log is here. The Colin Archer is looking fantastic and there's a wealth of detail in your build log. Well done. I look forward to learning lots more from your and the fine folk here as you progress.

[captainbob]

Have a good holiday.

 

Bob

[Omega1234]

Hi Mike

 

All the best for a great vacation!

 

Look forward to your next post when you get back.

 

Cheers

 

Patrick

[Mirabell61]

 

Hi all

Thanks to all visitors for showing in and all the assessments with the like button.

 

@Patrick

Thank you for the nice comment and encouragement.

Do you still have your RC boats? or maybe the one or the other photography?

- about a possible post I would be very happy.  

 

@ Bob

I also thank you for your comment. Yes, 'Stavanger's ' inner surface I have sealed with epoxy and fiber glass tissue. (see also below and post no. 121).

 

As I have mentioned in the last log, the invisible hairline cracks in the wood of the keel were the reason for the water penetration. As the first corrective action, I have treated the keel wood inner side with an Epoxy layer – and after all, the big planked areas were seald from the beginning.

 

But also the external coating has to be waterproof, this means the teaching of the lesson of swelling and shrinkage (see in last post). Therefore I decided to grind down the existing primer generously and to treat the whole outside of the hull with the real stuff!  PRIMOCON (from International) is a one-component primer used in yacht building for the underwater area on all kinds of surfaces - as far as my assumption that what is good enough for the originals for the "little" is right. I have finally used acrylic paint to the final coating.

 

Best regards

Mike

 

Below: 

Work flow as described

 

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Mike,

 

looks like this "Primocon" stuff is the right way to deal with. I`ll look out for that one.

I remember priming my former actual sailing Dinghi with a white 1 component primer before putting the antifouling paint on. When scraping / replacing the antifouling appr. every two years, all came off, but not that primer, it seemed to have been married with the gelcoat. Unfortunately I did`nt save the empty can or wright down the name, now I`m desperately looking for a good primer to stick to the shiny aluminium foil of my model`s plating. Ordenary primer comes off to easy together with the paint covering it

 

Enjoy your holiday...

 

Nils

[mikegerber]

Hi Mike

 

As requested, (I don't intend to hijack your post), here is one my RC models, although it is incomplete. Here's why.

 

All of my RC yachts are stored in various states of neglect in the garden shed. I'll see if I can get some photos later. However, you may recall in an earlier post that I mentioned one of my models had been lost (presumed sunk) in the local river. I was heartbroken, not only because of the cost of the lost equipment, but also because she was fully detailed inside and took more than 24 mths to build. Nonetheless, I immediately set about building a complete replacement copy of the boat so that I could sail it again. Over time, I lost interest in building the replacement model and I chucked it in the workshop, where it's been gathering dust for the past 20 years. The photos of the incomplete replacement boat are below:

 

Cheers

 

Patrick

 

Hi Patrick

 

Thank you for the photos of the "replica" - But how did you bring in all this RC stuff with a full interior design - that borders on magic!   

 

... and yes, absolutely. I remember concerning the fatal story of your loss - it's me a warning!   

 

til soon ...

Mike

[michael mott]

Beautiful work on the hull Mike, The sealing looks good.

 

Michael

[mikegerber]

Hi Bob, Patrick, Timmo, Nils, Lawerence, Michael, all visitors

 

Thanks a lot for your feedbacks and suggestions, all the visits and likes!

 

During the holidays, finally I found some time to analyze the anchor windlass mechanics ...

 

... as far as I can see:

1) 1. Gear (reduction approx. 5:1)

2) 2. Gear (reduction approx. 2.5:1)

3) Break wheel

4) Chain traction wheel

5) Winch/rope drum

7) Ratchet wheel

8) Crank

9) Bearing stand

 

 

 

Long I have searched in vain for a decoupling mechanism between chains traction and rope drum - conclusion: There is no (see photo below where the chain is off placed while using the rope drum) ...

 

 

 

 

 

... so the basic principle is now well understood. Nevertheless, I would like to ask you, whether someone is out there on MSW who knows further more about this windlass type. In particular I'm interested in the following:

 

- Execution of the bearing stands (only bad visible on the pictures)?

- Ratchet wheel mechanism?

- Break system?

- Brand or patent of the windlass?

- Drawings?

 

 

... and finally the obligatory holiday image (Atlantic, Brittany, France).   

 

Til soon and best regards,

Mike

Edited September 2, 2015 by mikegerber

[Omega1234]

Hi Mike

 

Sorry, I can't help you about the windlass, but it'll be magical to replicate it in all its detail. I've got no doubt you'll do it justice.

 

I love your holiday snap. Proud father and daughter...with what can only be described as a very interesting and large kite! Nice!

 

Thanks also for your earlier query about my RC yacht (sorry I didn't respond immediately). Here's how I did it. The aft cockpit was removable and was used to store the rudder servo, receiver and its batteries. The midship area (which housed the engine room on the real yacht) was removable and used to store the 5 nicad batteries for the sail winch. Lastly, the foc'sle was used to house the large sail winch, with the drum itself being situated above deck.

 

Worked ok, but, it was all a bit of a juggling act, that's for sure!

 

Cheers

 

Patrick

Edited September 2, 2015 by Omega1234

[IgorSky]

Hi Mike!

Maybe you try to ask about it here - http://www.colinarcher.no/

 

I'll try to ask your questions in the Colin Archer group FB.

 

Best Regards!

Igor.

[mikegerber]

Hi everyone

 

Thanks a lot for feedbacks, suggestions, all the visits and likes!

 

@Patrick

... as always I'm pleased about the dialogue with you – thanks for the info from your RC shipyard.

 

@Igor

... thank you for your feedback - i had of course already discovered www.colinarcher.no on my internet searches. But still up to now, I hadn't found the courage to "knocking on" there with my questions – on this, I have to give myself a "jerk" – will tell you about ...

 

In the meantime I have made some thoughts about the RC layout, so that I can close the deck in a further step without having a bad conscience.

 

At least theoretically, I'm almost certain that it would have to work, controlling all sails on one single sail servo (s. sketch below). Therefor I need a long servo arm, thus different rope lengths can be realized. Here, an analog sail sevo with a torque by approx. 250Ncm will fit quite well.

 

What I don't know yet, whether the servo speed can be controlled by the above mentioned RC technology?! All maneuver have to be done slowly (Scale-speed).

 

Maybe a RC specialist on MSW knows more about this? – Suggestions are very welcome to me ...

 

Regards

Mike

 

Below:

- RC layout

 

[IgorSky]

Hi Mike,

I always look forward to updates in your log!

I found out that one of the last skipper of the boat was Johan Jørgen Petersen.

I wrote the privat message to him in FB, but I received no answer yet

 

Best Regards!

Igor.

[Mirabell61]

Hi Mike,

 

that diagram with the sail sheet guidence Looks great, I wish you so much that it will work as planed...

is there any slight "backpull" intended with rubber band or so, in order to Keep the Sheets from sagging and getting hooked up somewhere when going through the wind with the Stern ?

 

Nils

[captainbob]

In the meantime I have made some thoughts about the RC layout, so that I can close the deck in a further step without having a bad conscience.

 

At least theoretically, I'm almost certain that it would have to work, controlling all sails on one single sail servo (s. sketch below). Therefor I need a long servo arm, thus different rope lengths can be realized. Here, an analog sail sevo with a torque by approx. 250Ncm will fit quite well.

 

What I don't know yet, whether the servo speed can be controlled by the above mentioned RC technology?! All maneuver have to be done slowly (Scale-speed).

 

Maybe a RC specialist on MSW knows more about this? – Suggestions are very welcome to me ...

 

Regards

Mike

 

 

Mike, With my boats I always preferred the sail winch with a drum.  Different sails with different line length requirements are handled by different diameter drums which can be stacked on top on each other.  I also felt the drum worked slower and was more controllable.

 

Bob

Edited September 4, 2015 by Cap'n'Bob

[cog]

Bob,

 

Could you, perhaps, clarify that for me ...

Cheers

[captainbob]

Mike hope you don't mind.

 

Carl, A string on the end of a long arm moves fast.  A string coming off a drum, since the string it closer to the pivot point, moves slower.  The length of the string that comes from the servo is determined by the distance from the pivot point so more string will come off a large diameter drum than from a small diameter drum for the same number of turns.  Jerry Todd used both arms and multi diameter drums to control his First Class Sloop of War.  It is a good read if you are interested in radio controlled boats. 

 

This is the build by Jerry Todd.

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/3244-first-class-sloop-of-war-constellation-in-136-scale-by-jerry-todd-radio/page-4

 

Bob

Edited September 6, 2015 by Cap'n'Bob

[mikegerber]

Hallo again ...

 

@Igor

... yes, Johan Petersen is a well known name in so many report about RS14 - and thank you for the initiative on FB – that would be really great, if he would get in touch ...

 

@Nils

... Thank you for your feedback and the question. As far as I can, I had played through that topic intellectually, that you mention (elastics, circulation sheet, a.o.). I have to say, that I can speak to this topic only from real sailing experience, and not as "RC-Sailing-Pilot", therefore my previous design is to consider only as super provisional.

 

I have excluded the circulation sheet system for me. It seems hardly feasible without RC sailing experience. Another disadvantage is the additional weight of the necessary substructure.

 

For my planned system, I will use elastic cords if necessary to the single sheet ends of main- and mizzen sail. At the servo arm all sheets will led on roles and operate in "Roll cages".

 

Further, I intend to led jib- and fore sail sheets double (Ps and Sb) . Therefor they are fix mounted only at the Clew of the appropriate sails. This sheets behave more or less like a kind of circulation sheet – what is given slack at one end, is taken taut at the other end and on the servo arm this sheets also run around on roles.

 

In addition, I will lead the sheets tightly at the insertion fairleads on the front wall of the cockpit. So I hope that at a jibe-maneuver the sheets only beats slack over deck and not below deck – either way before jibing a maximum of taken taut will be necessary, if I will not endanger the rig (and the crew).

 

@Bob

... Thank you for share your valuable experience – I see, I have to rethink once again thoroughly the thing with sail winch vs. sail servo and I will also take to heart Jerry Todd's logs.

 

Bob, Nils ...

... you see, so far my theory – it is well aware that the practice will instruct me to a better - probably I have to approach me to a valid solution step by step.

 

@Carl

I hope, that it is possible in the further course of my reports to clarify a thing or two – and thanks for the visit, it's good to know you in the audience of this workshop ...

 

Best regards,

Mike

Edited September 6, 2015 by mikegerber

[Mark Pearse]

Hi Mike,

 

just a detail on the rigging plan: the sheets of the jib, the outer headsail, need to go around the forestay, which will be at the stem of the boat. They may have a permanent stay at the end of the bowsprit, as this sail would probably be dumped as soon as the weather got difficult, & it certainly would not have had it hanked on to the stay, but I would be pretty sure that they would have had a stay at the stem as a permanent thing so these sheets must go outside the stay.

 

Just one comment on the issue of extra weight within the hull itself from the RC equipment, it is possible that this boat had some ballast in the hull & not all of it in the keel. It makes a hull roll more kindly, with less whippy action. I have no idea if they did or not, as in this case the ballast would need to be fully secured from coming adrift. So maybe you don't need to be concerned about not have all the weight as low as it can go in the hull. 

 

hope you don't mind the commentary, best

 

MP

[mikegerber]

Hi Mark

 

Thanks for your comments and questions.

 

... yes, you are right as far as that the jib sheets run about the forestay, but “Stavanger“ has no stay in front (end) of the bowsprit. Three setups with different sizes of jibs are known to me in this context:

 

- normal jib

- storm jib

- “Handkerchief“  (sorry, I don’t know the exact term of this sail ...)

 

... however they have no stay. They carry themselves and in strong weather, normally the bowsprit will be fully eliminated and has its secure place on deck (s. pics).

 

 

 

sprit in secure place

 

... and yes I agree with you, I have a problem with the overlap of fore and jib concerning the geometry of my mentioned RC-Layout - ... the jib sheet which runs across the forestay – trouble!  ... my next model is probably a static one.   

 

... so, this problem is detected but not yet solved. How Bob has allready noted, it is Jerry Todd who shows us a possible approach in his "Constellation"-log no. 72:

 

(http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/3244-first-class-sloop-of-war-constellation-in-136-scale-by-jerry-todd-radio/?p=205356)

 

Maybe I have to check a adaption for my case ...

 

At this time, I'm very anxious to realize all additional parts as light as possible. If I'm right with my estimates and if I don't will punish the ballast keel, it will only stay about 2kg weight of material for deck, superstructure, masts, rigging and sails available after installing the RC system.

 

... what you're saying about the ballast will be correct for a local, low-hanging ballast arrangement. In terms of inertia, wobble and rolling action, I'm almost entirely sure, that I have done, with a long lead keel, a maximum in regarding of a optimized scale effect - so my hope (compare log Nr. 14).

 

til soon and best regards,

Mike

Edited September 8, 2015 by mikegerber

[mikegerber]

Hi everyone

 

Thanks a lot for feedbacks, suggestions, all the visits and likes! ... well, here is a quick update from the workshop. Concerning the forthcoming step of planking the deck, still some installations are waiting.

 

Colin Archers RS-boats all have self-bilge-cockpits. This self-bilge-system consists of two bilge tubes at the rear of the cockpit (s. below).

 

In an upright position the cockpit drained due to gravity. By heeling, a hydraulic vacuum will be created on lee which sucks empty the cockpit through water flowing past at the discharge opening.

 

I'm curious to see if this effect also works in scale. In the worst case I still can closing the tubes with resin.

 

Best regards,

Mike

 

Below:

- Self-bilge-system

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2015 by mikegerber

[IgorSky]

- “Handkerchief“ (sorry, I don’t know the exact term of this sail ...)

Hi Mike,

Please, look at this photo:

 

Best Regards!

Igor.

[Mark Pearse]

Hi Mike

 

nice progress again, she really is starting to look like a yacht rather than a model. Lovely stuff.

 

There may be no problem with the tacking of the jib around the forestay, if you let the sail blow across the boat as the boat tacks rather than winching the sail across, the sail blowing around will pull the sheets with it. It certainly works for a full sized boat & there's no reason it won't work that way here too. She will be slow to tack as well, which will possibly help.

 

Mark

[Omega1234]

Hi Mike

 

The idea of the self draining cockpit is a good idea, and it would be interesting to see if the movement of the model underway is sufficient to create the hydraulic vacuum necessary to drain the water.  

 

As an aside, (and this may be totally irrelevant), many years ago, my Dad built an RC cabin cruiser, complete with a flushing toilet in the main cabin!  Yep, that's right, it had a flushing toilet, which was fed by water being fed though an inlet below the waterline.  The force of the water moving past the hull fed the toilet cistern.  When the ball float in the cistern was raised sufficiently, the water flushed/drained away through another outlet above the waterline. Perhaps this was an example of the 'hydraulic vacuum' operating in reverse to what you're proposing.  But, as I said, it'd be great to see if your idea works.

 

All the best!

 

Patrick

Edited September 8, 2015 by Omega1234

[michael mott]

Mike the cockpit drains are a great Idea and as Patrick noted it will be interesting to see if the hydraulic effect works well on the model.

 

Michael

[mikegerber]

Hi everyone

 

Thanks for all the visits and likes!

 

... it is following a short update with more preparations inside the hull, as there is:

 

- Mounting of the main mast foot.

- Mounting of the mizzen mast foot.

- Mounting the cable hull with resin for the linkage of the tiller via wire.

 

Til soon,

Mike

 

Below:

- Various work steps

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mikegerber]

Hi everyone

 

Thank you for feedbacks, all the visits and likes!

 

... one more update about the preparation of deck planking. It concerns the edge mounts of the locker doors and various reinforcements in the area of the deck beams.

 

Til the next,

Mike

 

Below:

- Various work steps