Thistle17

When I retired I was looking for some satisfying work and happened to join Habitat For Humanity as a site supervisor. As the "newbe" I wasn't always given the prime work of building new houses. I got my fair share of rehabs. One was a 100 year old two story monster. I won't begin to relate the problems with construction and material differences compared to modern times. Everything was a contest and a compromise. Two by fours were really two by four inches (sort of, they had dried out so much they were not quite a full dimension). I can sense what you are encountering. As a home owner I have never resolved the conflict of macro work priorities balanced against the love I have for ship model building. No less that it is a business endeavor!!! Joe

Mark your second reference iis quite helpful and more so supported by your text. Thank you. Joe

I viewed progress on the gun tub carriages and beginnings of the frameworks for mounting the carriages and subsequently for the guns. At this point we have a question for anyone out there that served on a vessel like this. In studying the geometry of the mounting we have come to the conclusion that the carraiges were mounted to the swivel frameworks, not the guns. Our study of the photos we have does not reveal to us how the guns were secured to0 the carriages.We have to assume that the guns were easily attached and removed so how was carriage securing dealt with? While the gun tub work progresses I have decided to start the final fairing of the hull. It has been a hard lesson in construction as we used full bass wood sheet of 2 and 3 inches to "plank" the hull. Even though the bulkheads were fairly benign in terms of contour the result was that the hull has a number of valleys and/or end sheet butting that needs a good deal of fill as well as fairing. Although I have a lead on a product used in fiberglass hull fairing I have been reluctant to buy even a quart to experiment with. In the mean time I have resorted to our standby product Rage, Easy Sand. Its one limiting behavior is that it has an open time of just about 5 minutes so one has to work quickly and in small batches. It is advetised as sandable in just 15 minutes but I find the sanding gums up the sandpaper quicker than if one waits a bit longer. Nitro Stan glazing compound is being used to fill in the smaller imperfections but as related earlier in tends to shrink so multiple applications are needed.

If you go to the Trucolor web site you may find a retail outlet near you. May is the operative word. They do not have a wide distribution. The second problem is that the retailers do not stock all colors. I have spoken to the manufacturer sales department (some time ago) and they will ship. What is needed are some really good color charts with TRUE COLOR which they were considering. Do not have any update on that. Joe

We have advanced a bit farther in the build of the gun tub. Jim our project manager has taken the tub which was outfitted permanently with the modified inner catch/ammo trays. He has been working on the 50 caliber gun carriages. We continue to glean tid bits of information about the Patriots Point PBR. We have been told of late that the guns are not real but apperantely resin cast. No wonder they don't look exactly like our 1:6 scale units. Here is a mockup of the tub with guns.We will be removing the handles aft as they were not "handled" from that point. I would add that the tub now easily supports the scale figures that are planned for the model. Joe

So impressive Rusty. Perhaps you could be persuaded to speak to your advancement at our next video conference???? Joe

Sam your models are exquiste! I have often admired the 30 footer that is exhibited at Rock Harbor in Cape Cod. I have seen that vessel perform in rough surf and am so impressed at the boat's ability to survive broadside heavy waves. And the brave, brave souls who strap themselves in and go out in seas that make one's jaw drop ro save lives. Please let me know of the plans you have for her as she is one special craft that I would like to build. Joe

We have all heard that a picture is worth a 1000 words But to some extent that is failing us and driving some do overs. This has been the case as we advance through the elements of the gun tub. The latest do over has been a modification of the inner tubs/that either hold ammo or catch spent shells. I am in the process of modifing them to make the width about 1/2 inch narrower. The left hand unit has been reduced. What drove this is a more detailed study of the machine gun trunion/mounts (see entry of 9/27). They are the elements that protrude above the tub flange. In our latest study we find that the model guns we have do not mount to the shaft through the gun body. The guns rest in a carrier and that carrier has flanges that support pivot points for both guns. The gun mounts must be spaced to accomadate the trays. We arrived at this by scaling one of the pictures so as the gun profile was the same as our 1/6 scale guns. Had we left the inner tubs at the original width the spacing for the supports in relation to the inner tubs would have been way off. That is probably not very clear possibly this will show up when we get closer to final sub assembly. Joe

Aeropiccola had a kit that had a sail and spar plan. I am not sure of the scale. This kit may no longer be available through normal channels as they may have closed shop under that name. Also I would only use this reference if available as a starting point not as a defacto standard. Joe

As an experienced woodworker for some 50 years I would strongly and I mean strongly recommend that the ripping and crosscut techniques demonstrated in this video not be practiced. This machine is as dangerous as a full size table saw. Always, always use push sticks. Never use the fence as your stop guide for continuous cutoffs! Always allow for any ripping or cross cutting "relief" prior to the infeed side of the blade by using clamped blocks to the fence. I do not want to explain why I write this! Joe

Well Roger my first attempts to locate a copy of the book have failed. It is available on various sources for nearly $100. A bit pricey for our budget. Our county library system does not have it either. So for the moment that reference is not available to us. And yes Mark it is a search light. Last night I "tacked in" a plate that seemed to be of the correct size but after sizing it up against one of the scale 50 caliber guns it is a bit too wide to accomadate the outer support brackets so they end up correctly positioned in relation to the tub rim flange. So out it comes to be modified, reinstalled and readied for the twin gun try out later this week which is being done by another modeler. This "by guess and by gosh" way of modeling is a bit frustrating I must say. We are striving for a fairly accurate rendition but with such scant information at the detail level some interpretation is creeping in. Joe

Mark I am coming around to the same conclusions about in service versus "as delivered and subsequent field changes". Who would know better than the end users of what worked or needed refinement! After I submitted my entry last evening I happened to recall that I had a cell phone picture of a Tamiya PBR. Sure enough it is configured as the Patriots Point gun tub. Just a bit more evidence that makes us feel more at ease about our build configuration. Joe

Dry fit prior to final assembly of the inner trays came out reasonably well owing to the lack of structure stresses of the new substructures. The back rest has also been dry fitted. Without dimensions or scale drawings the juxtaposition of the back rest is almost correct when the photos we were given are compared. The support brackets will have to be adjusted to accomadate the difference. We have had a bit of luck as one of the members working on the model found in his archive of photos an oblique "head on" shot of the gun tub. Much to our surprise there is an added plate in the forward part of the gun tub, at rim level, that supports all the gun brackets and cradles for the 50 calibers. It is just behind the armament plate. We could not clearly see this in any of the other photos nor do any drawings even hint at this. This week we will be testing gun placement to determine the plate size and bracket locations and from then on I think we will be able to move forward with more certainty. Joe

You may have heard that RBG never said "umm" before she spoke. She always thought and then spoke. Well had I paused and followed good sense I would have done so on the catch assemblies and construted them as druxey suggested. So before I went for the polystyrene approach. I manged to build up the 2 trays as suggested. They assembled quite easily and have no distortion due to built in wood fiber stress.. Joe

Yes David you point out what I should have told myself. You would think I would learn from my past experiences. Admittedtedly this is not an endeared project for me. Out of duty and a sense of 'get er done' I am in a forced function mode. Again you would think I know better. Joe

Thank you Roger for that insight. It certainly makes sense. Unfortunately our contacts in the Navy are no longer available to us as we did try, pre pandemic, to reach them. So we muddle on. In the last few days I have attempted to fashion the tub out of 3/64" basswood and it was a huge disappointment. The height of the "catch or holding wells" was guesstimated to be about 2 1/2". Pre bending the basswood along its grain turned out to be a mistake. At that thickness the curved side acts somewhat as an archer's bow. The resulting tension distorts the assembly to such a great degree that it is a nightmare to assemble and the end result is unacceptable. I am now driven back to polystyrene as the preferred material. If at first you fail try, try again seems to be my mantra these days. Joe

Allan I had a brain cramp and incorrectly named this CA based product. It is Rapid Fuse, not Insta Cure by Dap! And here is the data sheet reference. You will see accetone is recommed. https://www.dap.com/media/4866/rapidfuse-wood-adhesive_tds_100118.pdf Sorry for the bad information. Joe

Another approach I was quite happy with was the use of DAP Insta Cure. There are two versions a general purpose one (good also for wood) and one used for wood. What I liked about the CA like glue was that one could lift the plank within 30 seconds if the result was not perfect and it could be repositioned again. I also found that it could be removed and relaid once again should a new one be required with just minimal "clearing" of the previous layer of glue on the false deck. Joe

The gun tub is turning out to be quite a guess work project. In a recent conversation with a naval officier I asked why we were unable to secure the gun tub drawings. He reminded me that the Navy Bureau we dealt with held a few drawings back. Given that it is related to armament we suspect they may have erred on the side of caution. So for whatever the reason the construction of the tub innards has become a head scratcher. With the aid of more photos The tub structure was assembled and a cardboard model of the tub shell casing and gun mount steel works was constructed. Admittedly it is crude but does seem to give an elemental sense of the tub innards. As there are two of these the cardboard model has been taped together and will be taken apart enabling the fabrication of both. Basswood is likely the material of choice. Further elements will be added to replicate those shown in the photo such as the cross members, gun trunions, sheilding and the like.The second photo while depicting the actual shell catch tray reasonably well it marginally shows its internal placement. Joe

I know the feeling jfhealy as I have not even attempted my Winchelsea until I have completed Cheerful. I made so many minor mistakes on Cheerful, only to rip them off and start again. This passion we all have has been a pursuit of perfection and frustration given so many references on MSW of incredibly fine work. I find in most anything I do the second time is the charm. For many reasons it seems to be so. So starting anew I am sure you will find it that way until you reach a new chapter and then it seems to start once again. The frustration that is. So for me I now do a practice run on a mock up or in your case maybe W1. Nonetheless with your determination and persistence I think you will get there. Joe

As we delve into references for the gun tub innards we find a number of different configurations for the gun mounts, the inner catch tubs and even the ammo feed elements. One can only suspect that there was quite a bit on "in field" retros and contrivences. Shown below in order is the Patriots Point forward gun tub followed by what is obviously a in field shot. In the latter one note the 50 caliber shell trays and the relative gun spacing. The tubular frame overhead here is likely weather shielding framework. In looking at the multiple pictorial sources one has to assume that it does not matter which side of the weapon shells are fed into the chamber. Not having a difinite reference we have decided to mimic the Patriots Point configuration.

Glenn I too am building Cheerful but elected not to post my trials and tribulations as the model has forced me to improve my skill levels along the way when compared to so many who have posted. I too replanked both starboard and port as my irst attempts were pitiful. You were not alone on this journey. In regard to the moldings I ultimately went the traditional way using jeweler files to fashion the countours in sheet brass. The only thing I did make the countours a knife edge by back filing one side of the stock. That seemed to help the profile scraping. I used boxwood as I found the cedar is a bit too soft. The only deviation in the scraping that I found to work better for me at least was the following. If the moulding width was to be 'x' in width I milled stock (strips that is) to that dimension in thickness. I then clamped the,edge up, in a homemade strip clamp such that the strip protruded from the clamp enough that my brass profiled scrapper would nicely "saddle" the protrusion. Light passes as you start to get a true run and then successive passes with a bit more attitude to achieve the end result. I then flipped the clamped stock and repeated the other edge. These were then ripped to the desired thickness. Just another way to do it. One more thing regarding decking. It is a bit of a 'sleeper' in terms of difficulty. Unlike the hull it stares at you and imperfections are so so obvious unlike the subtlies of the hull even when observing it from broadside. There are so many elements on the deck to work around and one has to be dead on to maintain deck plank symmetry. I started at the bow and worked to stern as my first attempt in reverse was off by mid ship. In confering with Chuck I also softened the bend of the planks forward and that worked much better. I did not nibb the margin or waterways as that seemed a bit difficult for me. Lastly check, check, check plank symmetry as you progress from the center line to the waterways it is too easy to lose. Joe

Pictorially the difference between the earlier gun tub and the soon to be new one (just the form) can be seen in the attached photo. This time I made a full form out of stacked MDF scrap. The glued up assembly was bandsawed to near diameter and then sanded on the shop disc sander which has a convenient way to make perfectly round elements. The new form is 3 3/8 inches high and sits on the sub deck. It will be wrapped in .030 polystyrene. Luckily one of our group had 3 foot long polystyrene stock so there will be just one joint. I am thinking of wrapping the upper part of the tub once again with .020 stock just from the tub top to the upper deck level and offset from the layer joint beneath. This should give the completed tub more integrity and it will also serve to place the bolt ring which will abutt to its lower limit. Again as soon as I finish this tub it will be handed off to have the cap and bolt ring design modified and sent off to our laser machinist. Both rings will be made from 3/16 inch ply wood. Joe

Our last posting made the press just about the time we all became accutely aware of the emerging pandemic. Both seem like a long time ago. In the intervening time little was done on the build as priorities turned elsewhere. Well just last week we felt comfortable enough to restart the project with a priority on the forward gun deck and tub. With the on again, off again mode we were in we quickly realized the gun tub diameter was incorrect. Somehow in our haste we neglected to understand its doameter until a composite sketch was drawn utilizing the Navy and Maryland Silver drawings. Sadly the earlier tub is just about 1 1/2 inches in diammeter too small. Not shown here is the new form constructed, as before, to aid the new tub build.The new tub is presently under construction utilizing .040 styrene. Once we are satisfied with the result it will go off to our Corel Draw guru to use as a guide to update the file for a rerun of the laser machining of the tub flanges. I am told it should be a straight forward update and we should be back in stride to complete the deck soon. I had quiered a number of MSW folk on conformal coating for the hull once we are finished with this phase. All suggest use of epoxy resin without glass fiber to fair the hull. That will be the next phase once past the tub detail. Joe

And thanks again for the update. Looking into this appraoch as I write this. Joe