Thistle17
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I handed off the form to Bill our resident expert at computer design and who also has access to laser etching and to my utter surprise he produced the gun tub in an amazing short time! And to add to the surprise he elected to use styrene sheet for the tub surround dispensing with a good deal of sanding and filling with the stave approach. In addition he was able to add the bolt holes for further realism. I am sure to many of you that would have been a logical material choice. It certainly was for Bill as his Civil War scratch models employ this material. The challenge now is to outfit the tub with the inner mounts, back rest, ammo cache, spent ammo receiver etc. Unfortunately we only have the Maryland Silver rendering of the tub inner details so there will have to be some "poetic license" determination of dimensions and placement of elements mentioned. We do have the 50 Caliber scale guns so that will be of some help. Joe EPSON044.PDF
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Launch day for the Falmouth Pilot Cutter is coming up soon
Thistle17 replied to Chuck's topic in Nautical/Naval History
What is it about wooden boats? Every time I see these vessels since I was young(er) it stirs my heart. In case you haven't seen the Acorn to Arrabella videos on you tube they are worth every session. To me it is testimony of having a dream and going after it. Sigh!!!! Chuck yes indeed, for we arm chair sailors, dreamers and modelers it would be a wonderful scaled project. Joe -
skipper1947 I do not have direct knowledge of this model however here is a kind gentleman Reni Hoelzle - Krick Modelltechnik <r.hoelzle@krick-modell.de>) (that did work for Krick just a few years back. He was quite helpful in my pursuit of parts for the Atlantis by Robbe. They bought the rights for the kit from Robbe. Now the reason I am relating this is that I took a commission to rebuild a static model of Atlantis. You can visit my build log on MSW at I had to rebuild a good deal of the deck furniture and some of the hull components as they were missing. I would ask Krick if the kit comes with laser cut parts and what the materials are. In my build log you will see what was so displeasing to me. Also ask Pat Matthews (on page one of my build log) he is a pretty savvy individual. Hope this helps. Feel free to ask more or PM directly. Joe
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We finally got around to fabricating the gun form shown in the picture attached. The form is 7" in diameter and 3 1/8" high. We did experiment with alternate methods of creating the tub surround i.e. a veneer wrap, thicker staves and the like but finally reverted to the original thinking of two layers of 1/32 staves with the outer staves offset from the joint area of the first layer. This is now being fabricated off site. In addition the fabricator has design processing capability and access to laser fabrication to make the tub flanges (rings) and as he says with the bolt patterns included. A test fit of the form indicates we will have no problems with fit into the existing support ring of the model. Joe
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Simply amazing in itself but when one works to imitate it in physical form what a reference! The other edge of the sword however is can I ever hope to make such clean crisp joinery as the 3D model? Joe
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Great way to introduce yourself Bob. Ah that Viet Nam era! I was actually drafted during that era and only, just only, did my deferment keep me out of the fray. They actually pulled the notice back as I was working on sonobouy radio receivers for General Dynamics out of college. I often think I may not have come back save that twist of fate. Joe
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As we say in America Michael..."Your killing me!!!!!". Stop it I can't take it any more! I have no hope of ever attaining your ingenuity and execution. Joe
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Try Gilmer Wood Company. They have billets that one can machine. Their supply varies from time to time so you will need to revisit to get your desired billets. Joe
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Fairing the inner bulkheads isn't fun no matter how one approaches it. I didn't find anything to like about it on Cheerful save I could say it was done. I am not looking forward to this aspect on this model even though you make the outcome worthy of the pursuit. The cap looks superb. I am assuming there is a outboard detail to be added in the future to the cap??? She is a beauty Rusty!!!! Joe
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- winchelsea
- Syren Ship Model Company
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Shown below is a typical gun tub for the model. It is the best close up image we can find. Now I think this is mounted on a MK II but as best we can tell from the drawings we have it appears identical. Combined with our drawing file and this photo we are going to fabricate the gun tub as follows. We have produced 2 very accurately diameter discs out of 3/4' MDF that will form the top and bottom of a form. The center alignment hole has been accurately placed and will help in alignment when we bolt the 2 forms together. Now the overall height of the gun tub to scale is 3 1/8" inches tall. To fashion the gun tub we will sandwich in between the top and bottom discs separators (of slightly smaller diameter than the two discs of 7" diameter) to achieve the 3 1/8" height. The assembly will be bolted together. The two disc edges will be refined so as to limit the possibility of glue adhesion. One thirty second (1/32") basswood will be machined into staves and mounted to the form. The staves will be edge glued. Clamping bands can be used to achieve conformal shaping of the flat stock onto the form. The overall outside diameter is 7 1/8" Hence a second layer of 1/32" will be repeated. The gun tub rings can be fabricated in a number of ways but the preferred method is to have them laser etched from either suitable thickness plywood or laser board. We think this will work and will be working this over the next week. In looking at the gunner in the photo one cannot help but wonder about his hearing problems as a result of his placement. Did these guys sacrifice themselves or what??? Joe EPSON039.rot (2).pdf
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Test of Byrnes table saw
Thistle17 replied to michael101's topic in Modeling tools and Workshop Equipment
Let me suggest we continue a dialog on this. Firstly there is a note somewhere either in MSW on fence alignment or elsewhere and I just have forgotten. In that note it suggests one tighten the front lock down and then apply slight pressure to the rear lock down to provide "out board" clearance for the stock as it is pushed past the cutting edge of the blade. This implies there is some bias to the fence parallelism to the blade and not the slot???? Secondly, I have to ask in regard to the mitre perpendicularity, when you say you have a 1 degree error how and what are you measuring it. With my best square I have measured the mitre perpendicularity to the blade and with in my capability I do not see any deviation. I have noticed it can be "easy" to have the test piece move while cutting as the finer tooth blades do offer some side thrust to the work piece. I would also check that the blade is mounted correctly/cleanly on the arbor. Joe -
Great work Rusty! As I look over your shoulder at the gun port detail it looks like you have foregone the red paint detail around the ports and have have done what???
Joe
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Hello there: The Winchelsea is stalled as I am remodeling an area on the first floor for my wife's art workings. Cabinets are in, template made for the desk top and I pickup the doors and drawer fronts today. I have yet to make the boxes for the 7 drawers. But all is not lost, Cheerful has grown on me once again. I started her up while I was gluing in Winne frames. I am actually working on deck furniture and planking as we speak. Bill and I are also working the PBR so that leaves me little time at the moment.
The other reason I haven't plunged into her is what you said to me sometime back. This modeling takes practice! I have learned so much with Cheerful that I want to get a bit farther with her before I jump into Winne. In doing Cheerful I see now where I could have done a better and those lessons and lessons to come will be applied to the big guy. On top of all that I had to have a hernia operation last week so I am a bit sluggish with all the above. The doctor opened me up pretty good and I am still walking around with about 11 staples to be removed next week!
Joe
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Ah there always is so much to do. Making the area for your wife though time consuming is rewarding.
Nothing wrong with working on two at a time. I’ve switched back and forth on numerous occasions.
Yes the dreaded hernia surgery. Was there a couple of years ago. Hope you heal up soon.
Take care Rusty
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Yes Mark thanks it slipped my mind. I will repeat for all these drawings are more or less renditions of the major components and as such have no measurements, cross sections etc. On the other hand the Navy drawings are quite detailed including all dimensions and detailed cross sections that in some cases even define the bolt hole patterns and the like. What has confounded us a bit is to decide what vintage of the model we would undertake. As we have numerous photos from on line ( that are in the field or state side) and other sources, including Patriots Point excellent photos, it has almost become a "TMI"(too much info) situation. So we have leaned more to the "as built" configuration. Now the build posture has been from the outset, to construct a waterline model that will be placed in a diorama like setting at the museum where we meet. The setting will be a dockside setting with all the scale artifacts that the museum has collected. With that framing the model will be as authentic as we can make it "topside" but will not incorporate "undercarriage" detail that cannot be seen by the public. I have related this before I just thought for new viewers it would be beneficial to repeat once again. Joe
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Just saw your post and would be indebted to you in regard to the color i.e. what do you signify by "OD". Secondly Can you say more about the forward gun mount comment you made. We are using two sets of MKI drawings. One is from what I call sketches from Maryland Silver that is now defunct and we did acquire drawings from the Navy that are termed "as built". The current state in the picture above is that is the lower support ring mounted to the false deck and we will be building the tub upwards from there to a height much above the skinned over raised deck area that surrounds the gun tub. As a matter of fact we are converging on this Tuesday to define the correct height of the tub. If you have MKI pictures etc. that may help us it would be appreciated. We will be adding twin 50s in the tub. Having said that we are aware there were a good deal of field "upgrades" to these boats and while we are mindful of that we have had to define a point in time that these vessels were more or less delivered to the Navy. We certainly would appreciate your continued feedback. Joe
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Here we are a month later moving a bit farther forward on the build. Our "chief engineer", Jim is headed for Florida in a week for two months, so on board now is Bill. Bill has a long history of model building and you may know that he has a number of models donated to the Navy and museums. He is a period ship modeler concentrating mostly on Civil War era vessels. Welcome aboard Bill! Today we managed to permanently install the forward gun tub support ring and continue work on the helm area interior compartments. In the ensuing weeks we will concentrate on completion of the gun tub and forward deck skin. The helm area will also be finished and readied for the helm station and radios etc.. The gun tub support collar will rise up from the support ring and will receive an inner collar (with a circular flange that is part of the rotating system that supports the twin 50 caliber machine guns. At this time we do not plan full simulation of the tub rotational mechanism since most or all is hidden. We will add realism through simulation of fasteners and the like. The gun tub is a bit involved and it seems at the moment more appropriately built at the model rather than farming it out as originally planned. Joe
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Hello Ron!
I too am a member of Model Shipwrights of Western NY. Sam and I have been conversing about you over the holidays and I indicated that I would also try to reach out to you. His last reminder prompted this note. I am on MSW under the "handle" of Thistle17. I have always loved that day - sailer/racer almost had an opportunity to restore an original wooden one but didn't act fast enough on her. I now look back and muse "What was I thinking?"! I was then diverted from restoring a 17' Chris Craft Sportsman that I stumbled on at Cape Cod. Again I was pulled away from a head long plunge and lots of $$$$$ by one who knows better than me. Any ways I am now relegated to the work bench building models. Its safer and less expensive.
I am working on the Syren Cheerful and Winchelsea. I too have a MS model of Niagara sitting on the shelf waiting for ts turn. I might mention that one of our members has many pictures of her as he too has built this model. I think I can reach out to him to see if they are captured electronically.
In the mean time we invite you to join us this season when we resume formal gathering starting in March. If you give me your e-mail address I can copy you on minutes and agendas. Also do visit our web site for past endeavors modelshipwrightguildwny.org.
Joe
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Joe
Thanks for the note. I look forward to meeting and discussing the art of model building. I started building a few years ago when I retired and found I actually I had time to do something other than work. The Niagara is my third project, the last was the Baltimore, which took me over two years to complete.
My e-mail address is ronkamin@gmail.com.
Ron
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I am stalled on working this endeavor as I am remodeling a first floor work area in our house for both my wife's art works and my model building. In doing so I had to move some 1970 ish model kits from a well known US manufacturer. It was striking to open the box of Rattlesnake and examine the dormant kit. I mused to myself, in today's light, that the kit should go to the "auction block" or elsewhere. Indeed the industry has come a long way in nearly 50 years especially so in the last 10 or so. But Chuck, I think I speak for all modelers when I say you have advanced this wonderful "passion" to a level that may not be achievable in a full production environment. And it is hard to see how it can be surpassed! You are truly gifted and the fact that you share your gifts is remarkable. Joe
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Given good weather and your ability to attend our March meeting it would be delightful to see your project. Hope it works out. The choice of wood is going to make such a warm looking model Rusty. Joe
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I have been ordering ahead even though I have yet to launch head first into this project as I am setting up an artist work area for my wife. We share a common work room and my wife has been patiently waiting for her area for far too long. In any event I just received the full resin set of parts Syren offers. They are astounding in replication and detail. Although his supplier continues to work at improvements these are the best I have seen from any supplier to date. Joe
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Atlantis by Thistle17 - FINISHED - Robbe
Thistle17 replied to Thistle17's topic in RC Kits & Scratch building
One never knows when you take on a project for someone else how it will be received and what will come from the interplay along the way with the client. I must say in this case the outcome has been beyond any thing I would have imagined. My wife and I have become quite friendly with the client. I doubt that is the rule in such undertakings. It has been delightful knowing the person who is one of those rare people that each time you meet it is a joy. How good is that! Just had to say it. Joe -
You all are to be complimented on your teamwork and excellent execution of this very detailed model! Joe
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In furniture making a 1/32" is easily handled without lament. In model ship building it can be dreadful. I have learned the hard way that tolerance build up, even with careful machining on very good model machines can creep in so easily that I have had to adjust my mentality from one project to the other. By golly you are human after all!!!!! Joe
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Bob this pursuit has its own way of making oneself a harsh critic of their work. This forum offers us all superb references for "how to and perfection". It is both a blessing and a curse. In building Cheerful (which is still in process) I learned so much and have improved immensely. You are way ahead of me (maybe that is not a good reference point)! Joe
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My long departed German friend taught me to be neat and orderly and clean up before one leaves the shop. I have high admiration for him and his works. He apprenticed in Germany to a wood carver and that rigor was among his first lessons. Nice discipline! Joe
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Superb execution Mike. You are another hard act to follow. And thanks for the tip on the sanding forms and paper. I am always fashioning up homemade ones that are barely adequate. Joe
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It doesn't show much in the pictures once planked.
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