dafi
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Just found these wonderful pictures and that add to the topic of lost rudders as a small flavor :-) HMS 'Trafalgar' losing her rudder-head in a north-easterly gale off Malta, 1 February 1852; PAI0863 http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/150803.html HMS 'Trafalgar' sailing into Malta Harbour with loss of her rudder head after a gale, 9 February 1852; PAI0864 http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/150804.html XXXDAn
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Grandfather, what big hands you have ...?!? Magnificent work, as usually! Chhers, Daniel PS: Is there still a mast foot of the big one missing?
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The sketch of Turner shows Victory after Trafalgar with all the bulkheads undernbeath the poop still stripped after Trafalgar. Also some 1900th pictures show the same. XXXDAn
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Got worried, nice to know you back :-) XXXDAn
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Moderators: Is there any possibility to copy this interesting discussion either to Building, Framing, Planking and plating or to Ship's Deck Furniture, Guns, boats and other Fittings. (Good question - is it considered hull or furniture?!?) Like this it we would be jamming this marvelous report and the discussion would be found more easily too :-) If not just delete this message Cheers, Daniel
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It is simply easier to measure the circumference: Just take a piece of rope and wrap around. For the diameter you need a tool like a caliper. XXXDAn
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Before facilitatied emergency steering one should retrieve the rudder ;-) XXXDAn PS: This way of steering with the pendants imho is only applicable if pintles are ok and only the rudder head (or the tiller including the spare one) is broken.
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Here are some pictures aut of my Harland Seamanship, showing the steering by the chains and other stories. XXXDAn
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I think Evan summoned the case nicely. The most important was the saving of the rudder. Even though Dave mentions the lock, history is full of broken or lost rudders - another example is the Cutty Sark in race with the Thermopylae, where she lost it in a storm and the need of several days to fix an emergency rudder under these conditions is still one of the great stories of bravery in seamanship. In my understanding the first purpose was to keep the rudder nearby the ship to recover the material. The chain is usually tied close to the stern, keeping the chain out of the water and out of the way and providing by the ties a kind of breaking point to give more line to keep the floating rudder as clear of the hull as possible. Once recovered it for sure was a first option to be used as steering help, but for reasons of lever forces, it was handled by some spars that were set outside as Evan described. This and many more options are nicely shown in the Harland´s Seamanship. Also Nares, Sheet Anchor and Ketch Anchor etc have big sections about replacing the rudder, so it was a well known and especially dangerous issue. Emergency systems contained the use of gun-carriages, barrels, old sails - an interesting and very exciting topic :-) XXXDAn
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This is common in AOTS and I think it was thought as a mere simplification which results in those stupid errors. AOTS Victory has the same issue - same wrong pattern, all planks exactly 6 meters, split planks in between the coamings and not respecting that the butts should be atop a deck beam. I am even not mentioning that some decks have straight planks, other have curved ones ... XXXDAn
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The loss of the rudder was one of the reasons for the loss of the HMS St. George (1785) at X-Mess 1811 at Thorsminde. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_St_George_(1785) The rudder was found some 200 years later and is in restoration at the museum. Has anybody seen it or has clear pictures? Does it have a turbulence groove? XXXDAn PS: THe german wikipedia is much more detailed: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_St._George_(1785) http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Defence_(1763) Also the museums site is quite interesting: http://www.vragmus.dk/uk-version/marin-arch-uk/rudder.htm http://www.vragmus.dk/uk-version/index-uk.htm see "Photos and find two of the rudder :-) http://www.vragmus.dk/uk-version/marin-arch-uk/methods.htm
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@foxy, no you wont! Even though using some parts that I produced in my dim and distant past, you already found your own way to make this model your own! Anyway fork and knife or even better Nelson´s knife-fork it is up to you first ;-) Thank you Ian, Mark, Popeye and foxy :-) XXXDan
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Thanks you Sirs, very kind! My small piece of cake found a temporary home in my Trafalgar shrine, beside the tankard displaying the battle lines, the Nelson magnifying glass, the photography of Nelson´s ghost and the the piece of original oak*** of the HMS Victory. Cheers and shiver in deverence, Daniel ***from ecologically certified dismantling ;-)
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Wonderful build! A pleasure to see :-) XXXDAn
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we call it wurstegal* :-) There is Bratwurst**, Bockwurst***, Hanswurst, Wurstwurst and naturally Currywurst. Brockwurst must be one of foxys invention - a hybrid of Brat- and Bockwurst; Sounds promising, I will try and tell you :-) :-) :-) Prost, Daniel * no matter what sausage ** fried sausage *** boiled sausage
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Perpendicular! :-) XXXDAn
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Thank you José! Cheers, Daniel
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Thank you foxy and Mark :-) @mtaylor Do not worry, those are among the most important words to know!!! Prost, Daniel
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Always a pleasure to see the outcome of your endeavors :-) Love it, Daniel
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Thank you Ian and Popeye, me too, looking forward for the whole cake ;-) Cheese-chokolate-layers, yummy :-) XXXDAn
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Alle Jahre wieder (Every year again), also known as "every decade the dafi manages to finish something" ... ... my small slice of in between meal is served ... ... and lives ... ... while you can hear the chant "By the deep 17" ... ... the lieutenant and his midi are listening carefully ... ... and whisper it further with the speaking trumpet. In the same time the crew ... ... with her own calm ... ... and sangfroid ... ... brings up a new rope. And as the story was so great, here the whole picture :-) Now only missing a new passe-partout and some good pictures, cheers, enjoy and have fun, the dafi
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Here is the picture of the made mast of the Great Britain from Greenwich, nicely seen at least 8 parts. and the Victory with different structure Just one small question: Did the Vasa have made masts? I always believed it to be pole masts. Even the much bigger Victory had pole masts when build in 1765. Cheers, Daniel
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Love what you are doing and to be honest - you are beyond just using some etch parts, you developed your own style :-) Nicely to be seen on the parts that I did not touch myself! Just one thing - do think twice about using the thinner plastic spars, especially on the bows. Here is a comparison in between the Heller spar and a wooden one of the same diameter. Cheers, Daniel
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