flying_dutchman2

@allanyed, @Bob Cleek, @Bill Hudson, @reklein and @Gregory I thank you all for the information and advice. I will definitely get a draw plate and look into model RR nails. The long black nails I presently have so few of were used for my Marklin model RR which I purchased in the 70's and 10 years ago sold all of it on eBay to someone in China. Marcus

@allanyed, @Bob Cleek, Thank you both for the info. Marcus

@allanyed Thank you for the detailed information. I will look up the name you gave me. I have not tried a draw plate and I know I should have been doing that a couple of ships back. Smallest scale I built is 1 : 48 and larger. My Fluit, the Zeehaen is 1:37.5. The built I saw it on was from a meber by the name of Ondras. I've seen builts where the tree nails are too large and it looks horrible. I saw how Tosti did it with his Clipper ship and that was very cool the way he did it. Dutch ships in the 17th century used big black nails of various sizes. Several pictures from the Statenjacht Utrecht book by Ab Hoving shows how it is done. I visit friends in Holland every 2 to 3 years and then visit several maritime museums. Many models on display have black nails. I have used this as well on the Utrecht and a small Dutch merchant ship called a Boyer. I am running out of the nails an I've been researching an alternative. In the US they are called "bank pins". I will try the draw plate and bamboo. Marcus

I saw on a built little wooden pegs created by a hollow 0.65mm needle to be used on the hull of a ship. Where can I get something like that and are there other diameters? Thank you in advance. Marcus

@Dr PR Thank you for the lengthy information, especially the method of how you got to the answers. @amateur Thanks and I will check Witsen. @allanyed I will let you know. Marcus

@Bob Cleek, @allanyed and @DelF Thank you all for de detailed information and I downloaded the spreadsheet from Danny Vadas. Also downloaded the spreadsheet from the Schooner thread from Dr. P. Furthermore, because I only build Dutch merchant ships from the 17th century I asked the same question on a Dutch model site (www.modelbouwforum.nl). They refered me to books written by Ab Hoving, a member here, and an expert on Dutch ships. I have all his books I am going to compare the British ship measurements to the Dutch ship measurements and see how much difference there is. Thanks again. Marcus

What are the rules for determining the thickness of rope for standing and running rigging and what formulas do you use to get to the dimensions? Especially large ships such as man-of-war, Pinas, East Indiaman, etc. When I scratch built the Utrecht, the Boyer and other smaller Dutch ships, I guessed the rigging and the results were good. Now I am building a larger ship en cannot guess the rigging anymore. Books I have: C. G. Davis, The Ship model builder's assistant G. Biddlecombe, The art of rigging (pretty good explanations lots of tables but not how they got the numbers) R. C. Anderson, The rigging of ships in the days of the spritsail Topmast 1600-1720 W. zu Mondfeld, Historic ship models (reasonable explanation) M. Roth, Ship Modeling from stem to stern (very extensive explanations) D.Steel The Art of Rigging (1796) - Are there other books, Excel spreadsheets, and URLs where the given question is discussed? - What are the math formulas with answers? - Can someone give me and write down an example? - How Do I read figures in tables? For example in Montfeld's book on page 308 and 309, Running rigging sizes. Mainmast, Main Course, Tye for 16th/17th century it is 50%. -50% of what? - Where did this number come from? - What is the formula used? Then on page 308 (Montfeld), in the lower left corner there are a few sentences explaining that the figures refer to the thickness of the main stay, 0.166% of the diameter of the mainmast at the deck (100%) Again, how do I read this? It is confusing. Thank you in advance for answering my questions Marcus

Ab, Very nice. Will spent more time this weekend looking through the details. Thanks for the link. Marcus

WOW, One of the best and most detailed "read" I have ever experienced here on MSW. I have several books on rigging and they don't even come close to the details you give on various items on a ship. Like some have said, "write a book about it" and I would be the first one to buy it. Marcus

@Dr PR Thank you so much for the detailed explanation and the spreadsheets. I will give it a go with the Fluit en come back here to comment about it. @allanyed Wil let you know if it works for Dutch ships. Marcus

@shipman Thank you for the wise words. Actually, I obsess about everything and after that, I take it in stride. It is only a hobby. I am not doing any life threatening work. You would figure I would be good at it as it is my favorite exercise of building a ship. @Gregory and @ah100m Thanks for mathematical formulas and I heard from others that Mondfeld is wrong in many ways. I do like the diameter of the "mainstay" formula and thanks to giving me examples with how you got to the answers. Marcus

LOL, I have the book and cd and I am building the Zeehaen from that book. I am looking at the table and you are correct, it is extensive. How embarrassing, I should have checked this out. (goes and hide in the closet) I am still interested in how to read the rigging tables in Montfeld's book. Marcus

@Gregory Yes, this will help and thanks for the math formula. I created a ropewalk last year and still need to purchase materials. If I bought all my rope from Chuck (have in the past) than it would be a expensive endeavor. Marcus

Next question. How do you determine what is the right size of line? Historic Ship Models by Wolfram zu Mondfeld cover standing rigging sizes from 16th through 19th century on page 272 and 273 and running rigging on page 308 and 309. How do I read this information? 40%, 16%, etc. What do the percentages mean? Thanks Marcus

Thanks for all the suggestions. @Justin P. I do not know the diameter of the real rope. I wish I did because than my job would be much easier. @Jaager Love the simple explanation and will give it a go. @allanyed No British vessel, I built only Dutch ships. There is much more info on rigging British ships than on Dutch ships. Marcus

On my last 2 scratch build ships I have guessed the thickness of the different types of rope used. Now that I am working on the Fluit, the Zeehaen, I think that guesstimating the thickness of rope is out of the question. Is there a formula one uses to figure out how the thickness of rope is calculated? For example : x = scale of the ship y = real size of the ship z = thickness of rope Taking in account the year and nationality of the ship (1639, Dutch), or this does not matter? I know the scale is important which for the Zeehaen is 1:37.5. Thank you in advance. Marcus

I like how you built your bowsprite, something I am working on for my Zeehaen. Not an easy item to create. Marcus

Beautiful and well executed. Clean lines. Marcus

I just noticed this built and I like the figures you added. It makes it so much more realistic. Excellent craftsmanship. Marcus

Kees, as always, excellent craftsmanship. The book you used for your bilge pumps, what is the name and author of that book? Marcus

I just noticed this built and she is beautiful. I find fluits some of the more unique vessels. Yours looks really good and the hips are nicely curved. Marcus

Beautifully executed. You do excellent work. I love the lines of this ship. Have to make this one myself one of these days. Marcus

I am a bit late to comment, but I so agree with the above. I hear lots of modelers say that the sails hide the rigging. That is a load of manure. When you don't include the sails, the model is not finished. Marcus

Ab, Little here and there. I take my time planking the hull. I made some mistakes early on and one can see that. I will be building more fluits in the future, such as the Langewijk. My goal is to master the buding of a fluit. Marcus

Beautifully built and I have to agree with the others is that the 'sails, look like sails'. All your models look very realistic and like they are made of wood, not card. Marcus