Dr PR

Beautiful!

Just think how noisy it would have been on the bridge when that gun fired! I lost my high frequency hearing and got ringing in my ears (tinnitus) on the cruiser I served on from standing watches on the bridge when the guns were firing - and it was an enclosed bridge. The gun in itself is a masterpiece. The ship as a whole is looking good!

Valeriy, I am glad to see your are back at work! These destroyers are from a period of rapid change in the design and role of the destroyer. I certainly will be following your build. I always learn from your work.

This is a beautiful ship, and it is worth the time/effort to visit San Francisco just to see her. I have been aboard a couple of times and would like to go back again. There are other historic ships there too - and of course San Francisco and a lot of good restaurants. It is a great place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there!

I have been soldering things since I was a kid (more than 60 years) - mostly electronics. I remember my father using a 1" square cross section soldering "iron" that he heated on our kitchen gas stove to work on sheet metal. I have used acid core solder, resin core and liquid flux. I prefer the liquid, especially the citric acid based flux. It smells like orange juice. You can even use lemon juice! What I like about the liquid flux is that it draws the solder into the joint as it evaporates. We have used it on extremely fine parts - 0.05 mm and smaller. And it cleans up with tap water. I use a variable temperature soldering iron with a small point tip. I also have a soldering gun for soldering massive objects, and a resistance soldering unit. I am still learning to use the resistance unit. It has the advantage of not staining the metal surface with solder, and the heat is localized within the solder joint. I use wet paper towels as heat sinks to prevent heat from a new solder joint from flowing to a previously soldered joint. Water absorbs a tremendous heat of vaporization (540 calories per gram - far more than most other substances) before it evaporates, so it makes possibly the best heat sink. I have always ignored the "rule" that you should heat the metal and not the solder. If you put a dry soldering iron tip against a piece of metal the heat flows slowly from the iron to the metal, and can even cause oxidation at the heated point. This allows the heat to spread to more distant parts of the work (bad). I wet the tip of the iron with a drop of solder and apply it to the joint. Heat flows rapidly from the iron, through the solder, to the joint. I apply the solder to the joint at the iron tip and when the metal is hot enough the solder melts and flows into the joint. This is where the liquid flux really works well.

I have one wooden POB model ship that is 53 years old that was glued together with Duco cement (or a similar wood glue from the 1960s) and it is still holding together with no problems. Nitrocellulose has been used in wood finishes on guitars and finishes for metal musical instruments for more than a century. It was also used for photographic film. Of course guncotton is nitrocellulose, and it is used for rifle powder and used to be used for the powder charge in large naval guns. So don't set your model on fire or expose it to a strong shock or the nitrocellulose might explode!

I have been using Duco Cement or similar glues for at nearly 70 years and it keeps forever. It contains acetone and other volatile chemicals, so if you live in California you should worry that it will cause your ears to fall off. I know it isn't "fashionable" these days, but it works very well with wood. It does dry clear, but it leaves a visible film. It sets up in about 20 seconds but doesn't form a strong bond for about an hour. It hardens fully in 24 hours. I have used PVA and it works, but I end up throwing most of it out because it hardens in the bottle, even when kept capped. I never use CA (cyanoacrilate). It turns to rock in the tubes before I get around to using it. If I do get to use it the necks of the tubes clog after a single use.

Bill, This is par for the course. There are as many answers as there are people. And that is the way it would have been in the 1400s. Unless you have actual plans for the vessel you are building you should just pick whatever looks good. 80% to 90% but not more than twice the beam.

I have done quite a bit of research on schooner rigging. Here are two posts that should answer some of your questions. Schooner sail plans and rigging. This shows many sail plan options and defines a lot of the terms: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25679-topsail-schooner-sail-plans-and-rigging/?do=findComment&comment=750865 This post discusses where all the rats nest of rigging gets belayed on deck: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/30234-topsail-schooner-belaying-plan/?do=findComment&comment=862302

The margin boards (edge planks) along the sides of the hulls (part of the waterways) were bent in this case. That was a project in itself because planks do not "want" to bend on the long dimension. I boiled them to heat them all the way through (it is the heat that softens the wood, not the water) and them clamped them in place. I used multiple margin boards along the length of the ship. It would have been a lot easier to start with a wide piece of wood the proper thickness and cut the curved board from it. I ended up doing this for the cap rails. On the three ships with wooden decks I served on (1960s and 70s) the margin boards were fashioned in this way by carving them from wider planks. The actual method of planking the deck varied from century to century and place to place. The type of vessel (military, commercial and yacht) also influenced the planking method. The "nibbing" method I show was popular in the 1800s and 1900s, and perhaps part of the 1700s. It uses straight planks. I think the technique Allen shows is called "hooking" and it seems to have been popular in earlier years. The planks were often curved, and had to be much wider at the "hook" end. It has the advantage that the margin boards or waterways are much simpler and have no nibs. Another method that is popular with fancy yachts had simple margin boards/waterway planks. The deck planks curved along the outboard edge and were nibbed into a plank on the centerline of the deck. This center plank had sawtooth-like nibbing.

Here is a note about this build. I have been swamped with work for several projects I am involved with in our community, and I had an eye operation in November (came out perfect - both eyes correctable to better than 20:20!). The latest work was staining/dying the Syren blocks to a darker brown color. But things delayed that and now it is winter. The stains have strong odors so I can't work inside, and it is far too cold outside. So that work is delayed until spring. There are still a lot of details to finish on the hull before rigging the masts, but I don't have the time right now. I will continue when things warm up outside. I just have to build that workshop extension to the garage!

On smaller topsail schooners the topgallant yard often just had a halliard, or a halliard and lifts. The clews of the topgallant sail were fastened to the topsail yard arms (end of the yard), and the topgallant followed the angle of the topsail as it was set with the topsail yard braces. The topgallant sail was often lashed to the yard on deck and then hauled aloft where a crewman released the sail and attached the clews to the topsail yardarms. The arrangement shown in your drawing is interesting in that the topgallant yard is aloft but no sail is attached. It is possible that the sail was brought out of the sail locker when needed and hauled aloft to be attached to the topgallant yard. With the topgallant set the vessel was pretty "lively" and susceptible to capsizing if a strong squall hit it broadside. There are numerous accounts of this happening. So the topgallant was used only in light winds when necessary to get more speed, and it had a simple rig so the yard and sail could be dropped to the deck very quickly when the wind stiffened. Even the topsail posed this hazard in really strong winds on some vessels. The British considered American topsail schooners to be over rigged and used a smaller sail area on their schooners, until they observed that the American vessels (often smugglers or privateers) could run away from them with ease with all their canvas set. The Brits eventually came around to "over rigging" their topsail schooners to get more speed. And they lost several of them in high winds.

CH, The basic technique for "nibbing" deck planks into the edge planks is pretty simple. The purpose is to avoid points on the planks at less than 45 degree angle - these were weak and prone to catching on lines and such and breaking off. Basically, the plank is trimmed to about half the plank width at the nib on the outboard side, and then angled back to where the plank encounters the edge board at the outboard side. Now we are at the point where many people have ideas about "how it should be done." On modern ships the nib seems to be half the plank width. On some older wooden vessels it may have been 1/3 the plank width. And the nib end may be perpendicular to the plank edge, or perpendicular to the edge board side. Who knows how many other ways it has been done? If anyone has a good document telling how it was done for a particular period I would like to see it. Here is how I did it. I was pretty anxious about doing this because it was my first attempt. To my surprise, not only was it easy, but the nibs came out perfectly symmetrical port to starboard for the full length of the hull! Here you can see how the plank end was first marked at half the width. Note that the paper "grout" was wider than the plank edge so it stood proud of the plank. Later it was shaved down to plank height and sanded smooth. Then the plank was positioned with the forward end at the trailing edge of the previous nib. Then it was trimmed at an angle from the half width mark at the forward end back to where the outboard side of the plank encountered the edge board. The edge board was marked with the outline of the nibbed plank and cut so the plank would fit into the notch in the edge board. This picture shows the nibbed plank and the notch in the edge board. I used black paper at a thickness of a scale 3/8 inch for the "tar" grout between the planks. Some people use black pencil, charcoal or black marker for the grout. It depends upon the scale width of the grout. This picture shows how the black paper "grout" wrapped around the end of the plank. Here is a picture of the final deck. Not bad for a first attempt! I can live with this. Here is a link to the build log with more details: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/19611-albatros-by-dr-pr-mantua-scale-148-revenue-cutter-kitbash-about-1815/?do=findComment&comment=603771

If you click on the picture you will see options for the position of the picture in the column (left, right or nothing) and to change the size of the picture. If you put the picture to the left margin the text will wrap around the right side. I just enter Carriage Returns (ENTER key) until the cursor moves below the picture. Always put a blank line (ENTER) immediately after the picture. This behavior changed a bit a couple of years ago with an upgrade of the forum software, so some old posts may have some misplaced text around pictures (they need the extra blank line below the photo). Always save the post and then look at it. You may have to edit it (click on the three vertical dots at the upper right of the post, and select "Edit") to add an additional blank line or two to get the text to the position you want it.

Wolfram zu Mondfeld's "Historic Ship Models" (Sterling Publishing, Co., New York, NY, 1989) has four pages (134-137) of information and details about chain plates and how they changed over the years. I found this very helpful.

Deck planks or hull planks?

If you are using very small diameter wire just cut it with a hobby knife and a chisel blade (square ended). Fasten the drill bit in a vice and support the bit and wire coil before trying to cut. It really doesn't matter if the cuts run straight down the drill bit because all of the rings will be the same diameter in any case. For soldering use a tiny bit of liquid solder flux in the gap (use a small paint brush). Then put a tiny bit of solder on the soldering iron tip and touch it to the joint. The flux will pull the solder into the joint. You should be able to pull the soldering iron tip away and have it carry any excess solder. You may get a tiny "spike" where the tip pulled away, but that can be removed with a file. Or wipe the soldering iron tip clean on a wet sponge and touch the joint again to carry away more solder. I can't see a resistance soldering iron having any advantage in this case. You need two separate electrical circuits at the gap between the two pieces to be soldered in order to generate current flow and heat in the gap. The tiny ring is a low resistance loop between the ends to be soldered so there would be no potential difference between the ends of the ring and no current flow in the gap. The heat would be generated between the soldering tip and the metal ring, and not in the gap between the ring ends. This is no different from just using an ordinary hot tip soldering iron.

Kieth, Thanks for the explanation. This arrangement is new to me (as are a lot of things about schooner rigging). I understand why the leeward stay was slacked to allow the sail to catch the wind. And I see how your stays function as a backstay to transfer forces to the mainmast top. Marquardt (The Global Schooner, Naval Institute Press, Annapolis, Maryland, U.S.A., 2003, page 179) describes your fore and aft running stay that leads from the fore topmast down to the main masthead and then to the deck as a "schooner stay." However he seems to be talking about a stay the runs from the fore mast top to the main mast top, and not from a point near the top of the fore topmast. I was thinking of the running backstays used on some schooners where the stays were secured to points behind the mast and outboard at the bulwark. In this way the stay took not only the strain from the forward forces on the mast, but also some of the lateral forces. The stays usually had a tackle (luff tackle or gun tackle) at the bottom end. The windward stay was belayed to a point outboard and aft of the mast, and the tackle drawn tight to take the strain. The leeward stay tackle was slackened and the tackle moved forward to a point outboard the mast. This allowed the gaff sail boom to swing wide outboard on the downwind side to catch the wind.

Back in the 1970s or early 1980s I visited the nautical museum in Astoria, Oregon, and there was a huge model of the USS Oregon. Last time I visited it wasn't there. It looked like a builder's model. I wonder what happened to it, or where it is now.

Kieth, Your work is beautiful! But I don't understand why you ran the two backstays through the double block on the main mast. That seems to me to defeat the purpose of the two backstays. The geometry is all wrong. As you have it rigged it having two stays is no different than one. Both create the same triangle aligned along the centerline with the main mast. There is no support for the transverse forces acting on the mast, and that is the purpose of the stays. The idea behind running backstays is that the two stays lead to opposite sides of the vessel, creating a triangle on each side to support the mast and take the strain of the sail. The downwind stay is slacked to avoid interference with the gaff sail, and the upwind stay is tightened to take the strain on the mast. Shouldn't each stay end in a luff tackle belayed to a point on deck close to the bulwark, port and starboard?

Sam, Welcome! The Dungeness crabs are very good, but I also like the Yaquina Bay oysters! What models are you working on or planning?

The Young Sea Officer's Sheet Anchor (1808) (Darcy Lever, Algrove Publishing Limited,Ottowa, Canada, 2000) has good drawings and detailed instructions for catting and fishing the anchors on page 69. Pages 67 and 68 describe anchors, anchor buoys, and the associated lines.

I was an A student in chemistry in the 11th grade. The teacher created a 12th grade Chemistry II class for another student and me. We came up with projects that the teacher had to approve, and then set up and ran the experiments ourselves. We also served as lab supervisors for the first year chem labs. We decided to do some organic chemistry for a Science Fair project - creating an amino acid. It was really very simple, but it seemed exciting to us. The teacher gave me the keys to the lab (and supply room) so we could run our experiment on a Saturday. A friend, Henry, learned of this and asked if he could also set up his experiments for his Science Fair project - he was producing pure halogens. I said it was OK, so one Saturday morning we all met in the lab and got to work. Henry had already produced pure iodine crystals and some liquid bromine. His next step was to set up a chlorine generator. While he was doing that we were setting up the amino acid experiment. Henry had his generator going so I asked him to pour 10 ml of butyric acid - we were starting with that for the amination step. Up to this point everything was going according to plan. But as Henry was putting the cap on the butyric acid bottle he accidentally knocked over the graduated tube and spilled the acid onto the bench top. Fortunately he was working on a scrap piece of plywood, but unfortunately butyric acid has a very strong and vile odor. It smelled as if an entire infantry company had barfed in unison! We all rushed to the windows and threw them open. That diluted the horrible stench a bit, but then we started noticing the very distinctive smell of chlorine in the air. Henry's generator was leaking! We tried to find the leak but without success. Then I remembered that chlorine and ammonia reacted to make ammonium chloride, a white crystal. I poured some full strength 35% ammonia solution into beakers and we set them around the chlorine generator. We found the leak - chlorine gas is heavier than air and it flowed down into a beaker of ammonia. Cool!! They burned with a pale blue flame like burning camp stove fuel. Clouds of ammonium chloride rose into the air and began "snowing" onto every flat surface in the lab. Great! Now the lab stunk like vomit, chlorine and ammonia all at once. We were hanging out of the windows gasping for air when Henry opened the door to the hallway. There was a strong breeze blowing in the windows and when the door opened a gust blew through the lab. Fortunately this cleared the air a bit so we could breath again. Unfortunately, Henry had placed his tube of liquid bromine on a bench top and the breeze blew it off and it crashed on the floor. A small cloud of brownish bromine gas added to the other three obnoxious odors. The bromine bleached a white circle about a foot diameter (30 cm) on the floor. While all of this was going on the 400 voice high school chorus was practicing in the auditorium four floors below. It was warm and they had the windows open in the auditorium. The breeze blowing into the lab pushed the noxious gasses down the hall to the stair well that was open all the way to the basement. The stench flowed down the stair well and into the auditorium. As we were hanging out of the lab windows gasping for air a flood of kids came pouring out of the school entrance four floors below with everyone coughing and gasping. We managed to get the chlorine generator shut down and eventually the stench was reduced so we could do a clean up job to wipe up the ammonium chloride snow. We left the windows open all weekend. I really expected to get into trouble for all that. But the next Monday all that happened was the chemistry teacher catching me in the hallway and asking "Hays, what have you done to my laboratory!?" After that the lab always had a slight smell of vomit. I started college as a chemistry major, but switched to microbiology in my sophomore year.

Johnny's story abut the magnesium wheel brought to mind an experience I had. I was a Nuclear Weapons Officer in the Navy, and we worked with missiles with all kinds of nasty stuff in them - including magnesium. So the Navy sent me to many fire fighting schools. One was a flight deck firefighting school where we learned to do all sorts of impossible things. In one class they set off an aircraft flare (magnesium and an oxidizer) and told us to put it out with water. When an old salt Chief says to put it out, you put it out! We ran a high pressure water hose nozzle up the tail end and flooded it with so much water that the steam carried away the heat faster than it was being generated and it went out! Then they set an aircraft magnesium wheel on fire and we proceeded to put it out with water from several fire hoses!! Only a small spot on the wheel was burning but the heat spread through the entire mass. The entire wheel surface was flooded with water to carry away heat and eventually the fire went out. Then we went on to walk into a flaming pool of aviation fuel to rescue a "pilot" in a steel mock-up airplane. Of course, we had to do it from down wind with the flames blowing right at us! Here the trick was to use two hose teams. The lead team had a 2 1/2 inch hose with an ordinary two function nozzle - solid stream and high velocity spray. The backup team had a 2 1/2 inch hose with a "spud tip" (metal tip with a lot of small holes) on a long extension. They placed the spud tip over and just ahead of the nozzleman on the lead hose, creating a sheet of high velocity water fog from the spud tip. That sheet of water created a "tunnel" in the flames, blowing back the burning gasses so we could walk right up to the plane. Then a guy in an asbestos suit came in to rescue the pilot. It was scary but fascinating to see flames blowing above and to the sides of us! Those are only three of the impossible things we did in the Navy fire fighting schools (we also put out oil fires with water).

"Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors" (James Hornfischer, D. Murray, S. Sanders, M. Soffe, R. Steen, Dead Reckoning, Annapolis, MD, 2021, 200 pages) hardcover $29.95. This is a cartoon book, done in the style of cheesy Sunday comic soap operas!! Speculative dialog, speculative actions - the absolute worst type of fictional history! It is supposed to be a "history" of Taffy 3 at the Battle of Leyte Gulf. The comic book story is based upon that event, but it isn't non-fiction history. In my opinion it would be OK for a children's library, but it is pretty much useless for naval history. There was an earlier book by Hornfischer published in 2005 that apparently was a historical action novel. From the reviews there is some question about how much was fact and how much was fiction. However, many people enjoyed it as an entertaining story. Here is an example of the "historical" content in the cartoon version: