mangulator63

11 hours ago, kurtvd19 said:

I was interested in both the home ex for cooking and shorthand.  Back in 1961 home ex was for females only.  No exceptions.  I wanted to learn shorthand so I could take notes in classes.  NO had to take typing before shorthand.  At the time I never envisioned a need to learn typing - if I knew then what I know now I would have taken it.  Back then girls were not allowed to take any shop classes except drafting.

What should be mandatory is a class on life skills.  How to make a budget.  How to balance a check book - realizing only dinosaurs actually write checks.  How to cook.  I had a friend who wound up damn near starving to death when he and his wife separated.  W/o carry out delivery he would have starved.

I was lucky it was mandatory when I was enrolled. 

I ordered a lot of pizza and drank way too much beer during my solitude.  I did cook and clean,  pay the bills and got along fairly well. During times I was suddenly single I had the smarts to draft a few single buddies as room mates to help out and keep me out of trouble.

2 hours ago, Hank said:

Tim,

To answer your question, "Yes!" - I reported aboard 03 Sept. 68 a few days before NEW JERSEY left Long Beach, CA for her one and only WestPac cruise 1968-69. We spent 6 months on/off the gun line and then an extra 2 weeks lurking in the Sea of Japan after NK shot down a USAF EC-121.  I have been a member of their veterans group since 1990. I got you beat on the Tamiya 1/350 scale models - that kit first hit the market as a Life-Like kit (and in my opinion was a better kit in many ways - I've had/built 2 of them). I've built the Tamiya kits as well, but sold those in progress as I had no further interest in them. I got involved in the 1/200 scale Trumpeter MISSOURI kit in 2006 and spent 6 years converting it to USS NEW JERSEY 67-69 configuration. During that time I created quite a few CAD drawings in MicroStation to supplement the various modifications made to the ship that the kit did not encompass (it is as MO on surrender day, 1945). The Trumpeter kit, by the way, is far from correct as far as the hull is concerned and that was an exercise in reforming a misshaped hull - I did it one way, other modelers have done it in other fashions. However, the end product is this:

She is 53" LOA. Much of the superstructure and all masts/RADARs/antenna, etc. are scratchbuilt. I incorporated 3D parts from a couple vendors in addition to supplemental PE & Decking - I had the decking vendor (Pontos) create the wood decking to my drawn specifications which was modified from their MISSOURI deck parts. I also designed 2 PE sheets for parts and found a UK vendor to print them for me. During the 6 years of building this model I had the pleasure of correspondence and communications with the late Richard Landgraff who oversaw some of her 1968 final mods and also her complete 1981-82 refit - he knew the ship inside & out.

 

Back to drafting - here is my full size drafting table just after resurrection in my workshop earlier this year:

It is now covered up with FLETCHER Class plans, my CAD drawings, and a light table on the lower right. My shop construction is a complete topic of its own over on Workshop Equipment, etc. forum in case you're interested.

 

Hank

That is a beautiful model. When I built my Missouri I had followed the instructions on painting and painted the teak wood deck a flat dark blue. I cannot recall the mix needed to obtain the correct colors but found it interesting that the Navy would paint all that beautiful wood. I know it was for camouflage from attacking planes. I have wondered if the sailors on board preferred the painting vs. holy stoning the deck. I cannot recall if any of the Iowa Class ships had the disruptive type paint scheme. I have seen models with that type of painting but have never found any information on how it would be done, unless it was done after assembly of most of the model and painted with a brush. I also found after a few builds that using paints designed for model railroading to be better then the Tamiya brand paint they listed to mix to get the need color. I learned a lot about weathering and using washes and how to lighten colors to get a good scale appearance when modeling armor. I applied those same techniques in my ship modeling and I found that the ship appeared more realistic.  

I too have given away the Tamiya ship models I have done over the years, mostly to friends and family. I had a buddy from work ask me to build him the Bismarck. I built a glass display case and had the ship sitting on blocks much like in dry dock. When it was finished I took it into work to give it to him and everybody crowded around it and I spent the next hour answering questions and politely declining offers from others to build them a ship. I built the model for just the cost of materials and because he was a good friend.  I didn't want to get into commission type building because I want to enjoy building and learning new ways to improve.  If I had started building for profit or had to build a certain model multiple times I would not have been able to explore new methods or been able to research different subjects. I was building 1/35 Armor and 1/48 - 1/32 aircraft along with ships, both 1/350 and Wood Sailing type kits. I liked the variety and going from subject to subject.  This was before the internet and I spent a lot of time at the library and in book stores reading all I could on the subject I was modeling at the time. I have a home office and shop along with any flat surface in my house filled with books and magazines I have accumulated over a lifetime. I was smart when Barnes and Noble came out with the Nook and ebooks I started getting all my magazines electronically. Then Amazon came out with Kindle and I have saved so much space by going digital with all my reading needs, plus saved some cash in the process. I still will purchase books now and then to keep a series going in some subjects I follow, but I only have two periodicals delivered a month verses have twelve each month the rest are delivered electronically. 

Sorry, kinda went off on a tangent there. 

4 hours ago, kurtvd19 said:

One of my local club members is a member and former President of the Association Professional Model Makers www.modelmakers.org  and two others in the club were employed in the field.  They have taken a tremendous hit with the advent of 3D printing.  One is retired - not by choice but he got his SS within a few months.  The other two had shops with machinery and all.  One switched to a related production field - making mold boxes for castings and is doing fine.  The other still has his shop and the work he does for the Chicago area museums keeps him going.  But their prototype work died.  They both did display props for trade shows - all gone in 2020.

The APMM newsletters are a great resource.

I have seen some complex designs being made on 3D printer. I seen a program where they were going on about the benefits of 3D printers for recreating parts that no longer exist for WW2 planes. So I can see some benefits,  but like everything today machines are eliminating jobs of craftsmen who have spent their lives perfecting their craft.

I was completely shocked when I first seen an solid walnut door that was completely carved by a CNC machine. The amount of detail was shocking. Again a skill that takes years and years to perfect is accomplished now by software and a machine, which since its a digital file can be replicated over and over producing exact copies.

It is funny how I can remember how expensive calculators were when they first came out. The tablet I'm using now has more computing power then the luner module had when they went to the moon!

9 hours ago, Hank said:

Tim wrote:

Sorry I missed that, Tim - Well, back in the '60s (in NC) boys took shop, girls took home economics - just the way it was back then. I see your point however and that does make sense. Different times, etc. I did learn cooking from my mother and found years later this came in quite handy. Not to bore everyone to tears 😱, but I'll relate this short tale - Having been transferred to a DE in San Diego in 1968 I quickly learned that this would be temporary as this ship was going to transit to Seattle, WA as a USNR Station Ship and they had no billet for a PN3 (Personnelman). So, while we were transferring people here and there to reduce the crew, the cooks were also transferred leaving the galley without proper staffing. Well, I made the BIG mistake early one morning of putting on an apron and proceeding to fry my own eggs - and found myself doing commissary duty 3 times a day for the next week or so until my 2nd Class could arrange for a temporary CM1 to take over. Initially, I found it quite novel (as long as liver [yuk!!!🥴] was not on the menu and I didn't have to mess with it!! ). 3 weeks later I was stepping on the quarterdeck of USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) and reporting aboard (well YEAH!!). 

 

I think a further comment in the thread regarding typing classes was also somewhat overlooked - in today's CAD/CPU world, this is a necessity, not an elective decision to be made lightly. I was fortunate enough in college in 1965 to take a semester of typing - although my professor said I would never amount to anything as far as admin. abilities were concerned. I'm glad I've forgotten what her name was as she was dead wrong!! That typing class actually got me into the admin field in the Navy and later has provided me extremely useful CAD abilities ever since. I can (and do) type roughly 110 wpm and that's not exaggerating, simply a fact. And sadly, I know CAD guys still employed that are "Hunt & Peckers" when it comes to the typing aspect of CAD work (pun intended!!!).

 

Also (and finally🥱) I have seen some very artistically rendered 3D CAD industrial layouts of various utilities & facilities that could rival the best hand drawn architectural renderings out there - but, in the final analysis it is the individual who has to decide which medium to work in. I see benefits using both board and CAD depending on the need, ability of the artist/draftsman, and what is required.

 

Glad you brought all this up!!!

 

Hank

 

Did you serve on the New Jersey?

I have been following a YouTube site run by the US New Jersey Museum. They put out really nice videos on different parts and functions of the ship along with other battleship information.

Years ago I made the Tamiya 1/350 US New Jersey and the US Missouri model kits and enjoyed them immensely.  I was a member of a local modeling club and I would always do as much research on the subject I was modeling.  I have many books on the Iowa Class Battleships of which I used when assembling the ship kits. Back then photo etching was a fairly new way of adding more detail.  If I remember correctly I think I used Gold Medal photoetch sets for both. 

I found the Iowa Class Battleships just fascinating in their complexity. They have such beautiful lines and those 16" guns really packed a punch. I have never had the opportunity to make a trip to any of the Iowa Class Battleships on display as museums. I hope some day I'll get that chance. I would really like to walk the length of Broadway in one of those big ships.

I recently watch a documentary on the Iowa Class on PBS I believe.  I was surprised how the Navy just mothballed them and then spent tons of money on modernization when they were needed. I read that their top speed was never published and very few photographs of their hulls below the water line were taken. I did read one account of a sailor who was sunning on the fantail when the ship was pushed to full speed. He wrote that there was a lot of vibration and the wash from the props left a wake as high as the deck. I would have really enjoyed witnessing such a spectacular event. 

When I modeled the Missouri I went with her WW2 layout and the Jersey in her modern layout. I also modeled a lot of armor and planes back then and took time to get weathered scale appearances on all my models. I was surprised at how well our naval ships appeared compared to those of other countries.  I could get into weathering with rust streaks and paint damage on Navy ships from other countries but I was hard pressed to find the same degree of wear in photographs of our ships. I have a nice line drawing of the Missouri somewhere,  I cannot recall where I got it though.  I think I read somewhere that Tamiya had upgraded their 1/350 line of ship models and now include photoetch and metal gun barrels.

I

23 minutes ago, alross2 said:

I drew with pens on mylar from the late 1970s up to a couple years ago.  Never had any classes and I'm sure some of the things I did would horrify a true draftsperson, but I got by.  Now, I use Corel Draw, which is the program used by our laser at BJ.  Before, I would draw up the parts by hand, then Bill would have to draw them in Corel, which was not an efficient way to do things.  I bit the bullet and learned Corel, which made my design work much more efficient and saved us a lot of time (and sometimes guesswork).  Now, I use it exclusively.  

 

Perhaps the feature I appreciate most about a computer drawing program is it's repeatability.  I'm working on a book which involves a lot of boat plans and the ability to draw a single detailed item which can be scaled and applied in multiples is great.  From a kit design standpoint, the ability to layer objects greatly improves one's ability to ensure that parts are going to fit.

 

On the downside, as many of you have mentioned, is the loss of identity of the draftsperson.  Used to be you could identify the drafter by the line work and lettering.  My late friend John Lambert's drawings were easily recognized by his style.  With the computer images, one usually has to include a constant within the drawing.  On my book drawings, I use color in the windows, even on a black and white image.

 

I still have all of my pens, templates, ducks, curves, and an unused roll of mylar, though, ... just in case. 

 

The MGB drawing is ink on mylar from 1980.  The MTB459 drawing is computer-generated and from 2020.

IMO I like the ink on mylar over the CAD print. There is a fineness to it over the CAD work.

You are right about recognizing certain draftsmen by the lettering on blueprints. Its been 45 years and I still to this day when printing out something on a form or making a note, I will print my words out as if I am lettering a drawing.  I also have to absolutely have quad rule in any note book or journal I use, it's just habit I guess, or there is something really wrong with me.  My wife would go with the later. LOL

1 hour ago, druxey said:

A few more random thoughts: 

 

When I went to purchase my first drafting board (wasit really nearly 50 years ago?) I looked at a 4' 0" one and was advised that 5' 0" would be better in the long run. Didn't that turn out to be too small! I 'upgraded' to a 6' 0" board a few years later. A big, solid vintage board it is - I still use it today,

 

My school (British, public) did not offer any technical courses whatsoever. So I taught myself the fundamentals and then more advanced work such as producing two and three point perspectives from floor plans and elevations. I became proficient enough to be engaged by architectural companies to produce renderings for them.

 

Later, as a theatrical designer, I channelled these skills into both working drawings for set construction as well as accurately render sets from an audience POV. It was gratifying to get feedback from construction and painting crews that my work was the easiest that they ever received to work from.

 

Season's greetings to all readers!

I made extra money doing perspective drawings for businesses that were doing remodeling that needed city approval.  I took the floor plans and made different perspective drawings coloring them with markers or colored pencils designed for this type of work and would make as many different views as needed by the owner for presentation to the city. The city needed to have an idea of what the remodeled space would look like when finished and I would use large presentation panels to mount my drawings of the different views or angles to show the changes.  This was before you could use a computer and make slide presentations of CAD drawings. I cannot recall why the city officials required the perspective drawings,  but they did.

Because I was not incorporated and was still a student I was not paid at a professional rate but I still made decent money and enjoyed the work.

4 hours ago, Nirvana said:

Had mechanical drafting on my schedule in 1983-1984 as an exchange student.

In our class room we had a computer station with two 5.25" drives and a 15" mono-chrome display, that we had to learn to work to. 
In my room, back home in Sweden (late 70's) I had a professional drafting table (hydraulic lift, and oil damped X-Y ruler), do I miss that table today.... yes!

Heavy and very stable 40 x 60 table. If I can find such I will buy it directly.

However, what I learned working with a 2H pen drafting in 2d and perspective has given me the knowledge for todays 2d and 3d computer drafting.
When SketchUp came out on the market I bought a license and have used ever since, since 2017 I learned to use Fusion360.

During the early 90's I worked for company converting 2d  pencil plan to CAD plans, this with AutoCad R11 probably the best version ever made.

Using pencil, eraser and paper for design today is a forgotten skill.

I even learned how to make exploded views on the paper.

Designers of today need to learn the basic using paper and pen, and creating models using clay or other material for displaying  ...... dread the day when the whole server system goes down and your deadline is tomorrow.

I know how you feel about the table you had in your room back in the 70's  I too had a favorite but unfortunately over time it became obsolete for my needs. My attachment was more sentimental due to my father having purchased it for me.

But since I was in need of a larger working surface I designed and built one to my needs and specifications.  I really took my time and worked out everything in order to have something "future proof" and stable.  You would be surprised at how by designing your own the benefits you receive over a store bought model that has limits. I know that the attached lighting  I designed on my board is like no other and a board of my build quality would cost ten times more if store bought. Your able to incorporate building materials in your own design that just are not available in office furniture made today.  

5 hours ago, Charles Green said:

 

These are only my observations on CAD and CAD users: 

 

The economics of my time as a hobbyist is blissfully void of the "How long?" and "How much?" demands of commercial production.  I can comfortably answer these questions with: "As long as it takes." and "I'll do with or without."   On the other hand, commercial economics demands these questions be addressed and in business, CAD gets the nod.  CAD is faster than work made with pencil or pen and ink.  In my hobbies, plans are made with pencil on paper, on a drafting table with an arm.  I have no practical experience nor personal interest in CAD.

 

Following high-school drafting classes and a 12 month, trade-school, mechanical-drafting program, I worked for a while employed drawing maps with pen and ink on vellum or starched linen.  I had at my disposal an enviable set of jewel-tipped Rapid-O-Graph pens.  The job was a pleasure and my maps were beautiful.  I was there when talk of transition to a computerized system began but no one knew what form it would take.  I consider myself lucky I moved on before the transition took place.  It amounted to an upheaval, the increased productivity of CAD put people out of work and I may have been one of them.  A Luddite view?  There is some of that, but I never went as far as tossing a sabot in the works.  I had moved on.

 

My shop was designed with space for a 40 x 60 inch, tilt-top drafting table with a Mutoh Model 6, straight-arm drafting-machine mounted on it.  I had gotten them at an auction some time before for $110.00.  I had to bid against one other guy who wanted them too, otherwise I could have gotten them for the opening bid of $20.00!  In the shop, I also provided space for a 40 x 60 inch, six-drawer flat-file.  Some people admire them.  Devotees of CAD usually view them with distain, as a waste of floor space.  Conversation then usually segues into the merits of their CAD system.  CAD adherents seem to carry  a sort of militant allegiance to what ever system they are invested in.  I detect their divergence away from pencil and paper carries another defensive element.  I get the impression the most vocal CAD adherents would be hard-pressed to draw a three view plan or and isometric view.  But with CAD, they don't have to know how.  That's a shame.

 

Done free-hand or with a straight-edge, drawing is a tactile art-form.  Drawings are an artistic extension of the object being made.  Drawings carry the imprint of the maker as much as the object they represent.  Even when drawn with a straight-edge,  drawings of one object made by different people will show characteristics of their makers.

 

2H, 4H, 6H, HB, B.  Does anyone care?

 

 

For the Season:

 

Excerpts from Robert Service's "The Trappers' Christmas Eve".

 

It's mighty lonesome-like and drear.

Above the Wild the moon rides high,

And shows up sharp and needle-clear

The emptiness of earth and sky;

No happy homes with love a-glow;

No Santa Claus to make believe:

Just snow and snow, and then more snow;

It's Christmas Eve, it's Christmas Eve.

 

Stripped to the buff and gaunt and still

Lies all the land in grim distress.

Like lost soul wailing, long and shrill,

A wolf-howl cleaves the emptiness.

Then hushed as Death is everything.

The moon rides haggard and forlorn...

"O hark the herald angels sing!"

God bless all men - it's Christmas morn.

 

 

 

  

 

     

 

            

I have a very similar set up as you. I have a Vemco Track Arm plus a Martin Parallel Bar. I like to use the bar and a adjustable triangle more for finer work. I built my current board out of 1" thick marine grade ply. I covered the drawing surface with rubber drafting board surface by Alvin. Even though my office is well lit I mounted two adjustable lights with full spectrum bulbs because I hate shadows from the tool edges while drawing. I too made a large flat file for drawings and paper storage it is also handy for 1:24000 topo maps. I have a tube storage rack I made also out of old mailing tubes I got for free from a friend.  I have found a few good deals on used equipment on eBay for next to nothing.  Like I mentioned in my first post, in the early 70's I would only use a Pentel. 05 mechanical drafting pencil that cost $25.00 each.  I hated the older lead holder type you had to sharpen all the time and they spread dust everywhere and you could easily ruin a drawing by knocking over the sharpener which was always on top your desk. I did lose one once, and I was lucky that the local art supply store had some in stock, remember this was before the internet and next day delivery.  I was really mad at myself because that was a lot of money for me back then. I still have that same second pencil I had to replace but recently found a new Pentel brand of mechanical pencils I really like, it's the Pentel Graph Gear 1000 line in .03 .05 .07 and .09 lead thickness.  I purchased two sets of all four and I have different lead hardness in the ones I use for drafting and for sketching.  The funny thing is that they cost under $12 each!  

I enjoyed drawing on vellum and mylar but did not like drawing on linen. Today I only use Vellum and for work ups and sketches I use Strathmore 400 or 500 series drawing paper. I use more of the vellum because I got a deal a few years back on 36" x 500' 20lbs. Rolls.  I made a jig that is attached to the underside of my board that allows me to pull out and cut to size what I need much like a paper towel holder. I find while most drafting equipment has gone down in cost the same cannot be said for quality paper. Today a 100 sheet pack of 24"x36" is going for over $250.00 more if you want preprinted borders. 

When I first started working as a technician I was on the road a lot and witnessed the closing of many different industrial offices and shops. I have seen hundreds of drafting tables and equipment tossed in dumpsters. I have seen old Bridgeport mills and lathes being crushed by a dozer so nobody could take anything home. It turned out that they had to destroy anything of value for some stupid insurance reason. In some instances I did luck out and pick up things I could use. I was lucky one time when they were knocking down a old school. I found these 12" wide 1 3/4" thick 25 ft. long locker room benches made out of I believe to be yellow pine. I loaded up my truck with 30 of these, I gave some away and used them in projects for years. I got a bunch of 7 ft high 4 ft wide library book shelves made out of solid maple from a job site and used them in my cabin. I guess if your lucky enough you can find good equipment in strange ways. The one thing I wish I would have had the forethought for was when they were closing down the metal and wood shops in the school districts around me that I had attended the auctions.  A friend told me he heard that they were pretty much giving the stuff away.

I have nothing against those who use CAD only for their drawings,  I just prefer paper and pencil vs. keystrokes and mouse clicks.   Like I said I did purchase  CAD software a few years back.  Unfortunately I was unable to get the hang of it.  I had also purchased a few architectural type software programs and those also were just not for me.  I truly believe because of my years of study in architectural , graphic art and all the art classes having put every thought down on paper I am just unable to get into using a computer program for drawing.  In the end I gave the software to a friend. 

12 hours ago, Dr PR said:

As a child I took 9 years of art classes outside the regular school system. In these I learned about perspective, viewpoints and such, all for the purpose of making pretty pictures - what is called "art."

 

But I have always had the ability to create 3D perspective drawings on paper. For me it was fun. I made straight As in geometry in junior high school - it all came naturally to me.  In college my freshman roommate was majoring in engineering, and he had mechanical drawing classes. Like so many people he had no concept of perspective. I would look at the three-view (front, side, top) 2D images and just draw the 3D perspective for him by hand.

 

Years later I learned how to use mechanical drawing tools for work on drafting boards. I read through some drafting books and it was all pretty obvious. Again, it came naturally. I have always loved to draw (and still do), whether it is an artistic picture, a botanical drawing or an engineering plan for a house or machined part.

 

Then along came CAD in the late 1980s. We used AutoCRUD at first and it was awful! What we called a VERY user unfriendly program. One day one of the engineers tried a CAD program called ProDesign. One look at the user interface (the best I have ever seen on any program) and AutoCRUD went into the trash. We have used the same program ever since, although the program has changed hands from company to company several times. Today DesignCAD is considered to be a "hobby" program, and it lacks some of the bells and whistles of more expensive programs. But it is still a very capable 2D and 3D drawing program. Considering it costs about $100 with free bug fixes and technical support, and it has a great free user Forum where you can ask experienced users how to do things and solve problems, it is a tremendous bargain.  Some of the "professional" CAD programs I have also used ($15,000 per seat with $1500 per year fees for technical support and access to user forums) can't do some of the things the $100 DesignCAD can do!

 

So I have experience from both sides. I still do preliminary "back of the napkin" sketches on paper with pencil. I love working with wood and building wood ship models. But the ability to rework a drawing in CAD without messy erasers and whiteout, or just redrawing the entire thing as you do on paper makes CAD the ONLY way to go for a large complex drawing. If you have any doubts, just ask yourself how you rescale the size of text on a paper drawing that was created with a Leroy set? You start over and create a new drawing sheet - all of it. In CAD you click on the text and say I want it 25% larger, and while we are at it let's use a different font. And I can take an old CAD drawing and modify it to create new things without starting over from scratch.

 

But is it art, and can you use it for ship modeling?  And do you need 3D?

 

First, some people will never understand 3D drawing. One of their greatest handicaps has been familiarity with 2D drawing techniques, and even 2D CAD. In 2D you draw an image of something in the real world. In 3D you create an entirely new world. It is not drawing, drafting or anything like it - it is modeling, as if you were creating something out of modeling clay, only it is virtual clay. Very few 2D drawing techniques apply to 3D, and 3D CAD programs have a different set of tools. Instead of a pencil you have to learn to use a virtual chisel or drill. I know a fellow who has been using a 3D CAD program for years and still hasn't developed an understanding of 3D. He just doesn't get it when it comes to turning 2D sketches into 3D models. He cannot create the 3D image in his mind, and you have to be able to do this for 3D CAD. I think it would be better if he didn't try! But I was doing 3D perspective drawing with pencil on paper in grade school and instantly understood 3D CAD. So you should keep this in mind before you take the 3D CAD plunge. Like any program there is a learning curve, but if you understand 3D modeling it will be a lot easier to learn how to use the tools in the program.

 

Can you use CAD for ship modeling? Someone commented it was good for creating new designs, and that certainly is true! But I have seen a number of CAD models of historical ships, even wooden sailing ships. There CAD has a great advantage in some ways. For example, after you have created a double sheave block you can replicate it endlessly and even resize the copies with a few clicks. With a true CAD system you can control dimensions precisely, and that is important if you are copying the design of an historical ship.

 

Is it art? That depends upon what you call art. What is the purpose of the model? Any model, either wood or CAD? Is a chair art? I have seen a few that were exquisitely crafted, but in the end they are chairs, with a functional use.

 

Is this art?

 

 

These are images of a CAD model of the USS Oklahoma City CLG-5 as it existed in the summer of 1971 (when I was aboard). It was created from the original 1959 blueprints with hundreds of modifications that were made over the years. It is a 1:1 scale model, 610 feet long in the CAD universe. You might rightly call me a "rivet counter" because I modeled all the nuts, bolts screws and rivets (everything) that were 3/16 inch (4.76 mm) across or larger in the real world. About 1/3 of the 1+ gigabyte file is nuts, bolts, rivets and screws (however, I did not model the threads - that would have made the file 50-100 gigabytes). There are several hundred thousand individual parts. It took 14 years to acquire the plans and photos of the ship and the equipment on board and convert them into the 3D CAD model.

 

It is not a CAD model of the ship like ship builders use. It only contains the exterior. None of the internal structure is included. But it is a model of an historical ship that was produced in 3D CAD. Perhaps I am boasting, but it may be the most accurate model of a ship ever created. However, it is certainly "too accurate" to be correct for its dimensions are  precise to thousandths of an inch, and for the most part the shipyards certainly didn't do that accurate work! And dimensions in the real world change with temperature and time.

 

So is it art? What is the purpose of a model? Can models be art? If the only way to truly appreciate the model is to view images, how is this different from looking at paintings of historical ships? Each of us has an opinion, and no one's opinions are any better than anyone else's' opinion. But I have enjoyed making this CAD model as much or more than any painting, photograph or wooden model I have made. It was fun!

 

If you are interested in this model and how it was built:

 

 

For a lot more more information about the ship see:

 

www.okieboat.com

 

 

I would have to admit that it is a great rendition and would probably look pretty nice if framed. But may I ask, would a drawing of the same look better? I believe if it were drawn out by hand it would allow for wider choices as to shading and depth of color, again this would have to be done by someone with training in art and drafting.

Years ago I found a set of blueprints for a ship. I was showing the prints to my brother in law and my sister and she just loved the sheet with the side profile of the ship.  So I had a copy made and I built a nice frame of red oak and matted the print had a piece of glass cut to fit and gave it to her as a gift.  Its been over 10 years and she still has it hanging in her living room.  I doubt if the same could be done with a CAD drawing.

Don't get me wrong,  I have nothing against CAD and I know this technology is needed and useful in today's manufacturing processes. 

I started this thread wondering if anyone was still drawing the old fashion way of using a drafting board. Plus I was wondering if others felt as I do when it comes to hand drawn vs. CAD. I was also wondering how others felt on the subject of the disappearance of Drafting, Wood/ Metal Shop classes from the public school system.

I'm pleased to see so many had the ability to have had the opportunity to have taken these classes and are still benifiting from these learned skills.

What I surprised about though is that there have been no responses to my added comment that when I went to school a semester of Home Economics Class was mandatory for both boys and girls. I'm sure there are a few out there who have been put into a situation where they find themselves single all of a sudden and I am certainly one of them. I was certainly grateful at the time to have been forced to take those classes.

Thanks everyone for your input.

Tim

16 hours ago, AON said:

I starting draughting in high school, grade 9.  I had draughting classes for all four years.  Went to college for 3 more years and was exempted from engineering drawing (draughting).  On graduating I got a job in 1975 as a junior draughtsman, on a draughting board... and found out how much I didn't know.  After years of training I was a senior draughtsman.  We had tall sitting stools at our tables but rarely used them.    We also did "napkin sketches"... now there is a lost art.  One fellow made left and right gremlin foot print stamps (toes and all) from two erasers and when you came in in the morning you'd find graphite foot prints across your drawing sheet.  I did pencil and ink drawings back then, but in came computers with AutoCAD.   

 

I miss seeing the draughtman's dance:  doing a few lines, standing back to review the work, stepping forward to fix or add to it.

 

With these computers everything was 2D and I eagerly climbed on board.  No more graphite smudges on my drawings.  The other plus was everyone's lettering was crisp clear and identical.  It was beautiful until you had to revise someone else's drawing and found they used umpteen separate short lines when one long line would suffice.

 

I could never get use to sitting all day.  When the option came to use a standing table I jumped at that.  I would have loved to have a treadmill but the boss wouldn't spring for that.  So I went for a walk every day at my break instead.

 

Then came 3D and my pet peeve for numerous short lines was exponentially increased as the darned programmes don't believe in a single line anywhere.  Don't get me wrong, I love 3D draughting.  If you've ever had to clean an area for clarity, it is a nightmare.

 

So retirement came just at the right time for me.

 

Now I use the Standard version of DraftSight (annual subscription) for my love of draughting, and the free hobbyist version of Fusion 360 for my love of 3D modelling (and preparing files for 3D printing).  I had a 4 foot draughting table at home but sold that off years ago.

 

I loved SolidWorks but personally found AutoDesk Inventor was a better program... I simply cannot afford the expense in retirement.

I would clean all the under surfaces of my equipment daily.  I hated having to clean up smudges so I would make a complete corrected drawing then for making the final ink drawing I overlaid a clean sheet and would trace the work from top down so I would have less chance of smearing. 

On 12/23/2020 at 11:44 PM, Hank said:

Tim,

 

You're not alone!! I too, took mech. drafting in 10th grade (1962) and would have pursued an industrial arts path but my parents wanted me to go the "college prep" route instead. After a short college stint, 4 years USN, and back to college to finish, where did I end up??? Western-Electric doing board tech. illustrating prior to learning a pre-CAD computer based graphics program while working on the Safeguard Anti-Ballistic Missile Program. I then took a contract at one of the NC DuPont facilities doing board drafting until 1983 when they brought in IGDS Intergraph CAD - and I've been doing CAD (and a bit of board drafting along the way) ever since. I retired in 2019 but have a full size drafting table in my shop, along with a stand-alone CPU and single monitor for viewing the photos/drawings, etc. for my ship modeling. I have my same Samsonite Briefcase full of drafting equipment (circa. 1970's) and some of it is actually NIB (New In Box)!! A lot of those instruments can't be found anywhere and if you do they're usually of 3rd world mfgr.  I actually suppliment my CAD drawings with small board drafted sketches when I need to refine something without going back to the house where my CAD software resides. I've worked in various industries (Petro-Chem, Electronics, Facilities, Chemical, Food & Drug, Pharma, Bio-tech, etc.) and have also spent an unemployed year doing house plans for an overworked residential house designer.

 

My program of choice (45 years experience) is Bentley MicroStation 2D CAD and I still keep an active license - actually was working today on a stanchion/handrail layout for the pilot house overhead on a FLETCHER class DD that I am building. Another modeler/vet/acquaintance of mine in Fairbanks, AK and I began a self-taught 3D program called Design Spark Mechanical - a free download and it leads to making your own 3D printed resin parts. He's W-A-Y ahead of me at this point and I'll admit that when you use a Cadillac CAD program for 40 odd years and then try to learn a free CAD program - well.....it's not apples to apples. However, I am regularly using metric measurements now so that's some progress on my part. I now make sure I double dimension all my CAD drawings.  I also kept my light table (18x24) as well as a small 18x24 table top drafting board w/parallel bar - the light table occupies the right hand side of my large drafting board and is proving its value all over again. 

 

I can honestly say that most CAD people are NOT draftsmen and either don't have the education/experience of board drafting to understand what a drawing is (or should be) about. Layout and composition (which back in the day was expected!!!) are basically unheard of today and I'll admit that CAD drawings lack the "artistic" originality that the old pen & ink and pencil/vellum drawings had. I spent a week at NARA II in 2016 doing research with some other ship modelers & researchers and found a set of full size (60" wide) drawings of USS PENNSYLVANIA drawn in 1932 after her modernization. I had them scanned and will refer to them when I get to building my 1940s era BB-38 (1:200 scale) - the craftsmanship & artistic beauty of those old drawing is alone worth having a copy of them. I knew one of the Long Beach Nav. Shipyard managers who oversaw modernizations of BB-62 (in 1968 when I was aboard and later in 1981), BB-63 in his many years of shipyard service - and his CAD drawings, while accurate, lacked any sense of artistic ability at all. They were drawn to serve a purpose, not to be enjoyed. Such is 20....whatever. But, CAD  is here and I embrace it - as long as the drawing shows what's to be represented and the drawing as a whole is professionally created and rendered. Sigh...asking a lot😪 these days....!

 

The 3D end of things is where it's all headed (unfortunately) - because $$$ rules everywhere, it's as simple as that. However, it doesn't rule in MY shop and I do things MY way!!! While my cohort in Alaska is designing 3D parts and printing them (some for me, as well!!) my efforts so far are not getting that far - so, I fall back on my old school handmade model parts, drawn up either on the board, from blueprints, or my 2D CAD drawings. I will pursue this because I have a brand new 3D printer sitting looking at me saying "Choose Me!!, Choose Me!!!" And also because in many cases, there simply aren't vendors selling all the various items we modelers need to build a scratchbuilt model. While tall ships, etc. are IMHO done best by old school methods, the steel ship is sort of hand in hand with more up to date techniques and abilities. A lot of my current model's parts will be 3D designed & printed in conjuction with the kit I started with and my scratchbuilt superstructure add-ons.

 

So, "YES, VIRGINIA - THERE ARE OLD SCHOOL DRAFTSMEN Still out here" - hope this gives you moral courage to continue your craft!

I have all my drafting equipment from the 70's and care for it like I would of anything of value. I find today's drawing equipment lacking in quality of construction compared to some of my German made equipment. I am also surprised as I said at how inexpensive some of the quality equipment from the past is being sold as used on eBay.  Its a dying field I suppose. 

I feel that drawings done on vellum/mylar in ink or pencil or blueprints from the same have more of an art quality vs. the sterile appearance of a CAD drawing. In school my main field of study was in the style of Queen Anne and Victorian architecture and those drawings can get quite busy. I too have collected blueprints of many different subjects over the years. I like the idea of knowing how much work it took to accomplish each drawing and as I have said I find them to be a form of art.

1 hour ago, druxey said:

Tim wrote: I'm just curious,  does anyone still sit at a drafting board and design and draw anymore?

 

Actually, yes. I do preliminary drafting that way, scan and then transfer to computer. After years at a conventional drawing board equipped with a rail machine, I find it a rapid process to start with.

 

Jaager: I feel for your frustration with Deane. I think that there are errors either in his instructions or in the transcription. There is a small international group researching how hulls were drafted back in the 1680 time period. Slowly the 'shipwrights' secrets are being unravelled! All the evidence points to various ingenious mathematical and geometrical constructions by different designers such as Pett and Deane.

May I ask, what size and type of scanner do you have? I have wondered if scanning drawings were possible in a home office setting.

Its hard to find local printing shops that have blueprint machines anymore. To have copies made of full sheet drawings  (24"x36") I have to go a place that can handle a large format and it can get pretty costly.  

1 hour ago, Jaager said:

Tim,

In school, we were tracked.  Mechanical Drawing and Shop were not even options for my group.  They were skills that could have used.  I still can't draw a neat straight line, being self taught. A smooth curve is right out.  I have always been a Gordian Knot solution sort, so the neat imperative on a school drawing would have blown my GPA.  Ralph Nader said he was too OCD neat freak to stay with engineering drawing and went into Law, where that sort of OCD was pointless.  My OCD is there, but neat or clean is not involved.  I could have also used a typing class, but that too would have wrecked my GPA.  Taught myself what I needed to know to be able to loft Kate Cory from Eric Ronnberg's 1/4" plans for POF framing.  Boy was that a time consuming and no fun experience! 

The take home lesson was to try to find a better method.

I also went a fair ways into designing HMS Royal Charles 1673 following Anthony Deane's directions.  I used the drawing board and it worked for it.  I lost him with the Body plan.  The directions were not clear.  I mistakenly thought that each of the stations was individually designed.  Trying to find a way to avoid the sort of extracted point plotting that was so awful in traditional lofting could be avoided.  I now understand that only about 3 Stations are designed.  The waterline are drawn using those few points.  Battens are used to get the curves.  The stations for the Body plan being back extracted.  There are many proof curves needed to assure that the waterlines are proper.  This leading to no joy as far as avoiding the plotting tedium, I switched to a computer based solution.  It was early DOS.  Still, I was having a hope that 3D CAD was a shortcut.  My explorations have lead to the following conclusions - CAD is for design.  It is not an easy or pleasant tool for POF lofting of existing plans.  It would be useful for design using Deane's directions - except - the tools in TurboCAD - I could find no way to do an arc by inputting the center and the radius.  And some of Deane's arc centers are on Mars.  So a drawing board seems to be it for anyone insane enough to try to design a 17th century 1st rate.  Now I can do what I need for lofting frame timbers from existing plans using a raster based drawing program.  The way I do it saves at least 80% of the work and time.  So, I can't reinforce your affinity for a drawing board.

I suspect that your rant on the loss of skills as generations progress, has always been expressed.  It probably started at least when the skill of chipping flint into sharp projectile tips was lost.  

So, I understand where you are coming from

I see your point on laying out lines for ship design.  I have seen many uses of CAD here and I'm sure it helps with the more involved dimensional work. I doubt I could even come close to drawing a ship without some sort of reference drawing. 

I did take a typing class in school, but for the life of me I have never been able to type other then to peck away. LOL I guess you retain somethings and not others.

One thing I seen here and cannot recall who it was that had it was a Drafting Tool I have but not thought of in years. It is a adjustable curve with weighted "Ducks" or thats what we called them because of their shape. It was a great tool for long curve work. See it brought back some good memories. 

I have complete sets of curves for all types of drawing and even though I have never done any ship design I still have a set of Draftsmen Ship Curves.  I have tools and aids I really never needed but for some reason I felt I had to have them. 

I don't see why OCD would bother him in getting a engineering degree. I always took pride in my neatness while drawing.  It was even more imperative when making final ink drawings,  one slip and you have a smear that was almost impossible to remove. 

41 minutes ago, kurtvd19 said:

Tim:

I too frustrated my Father after becoming a ME and doing drafting by hand long before CAD, I left the field to go onto the Fire Dept.  Actually followed after my Father and Maternal Grandfather going the FD route though they were volunteers. 

My education sure did help down the road when I became a Division Chief in charge of Fire Prevention and part of the job was to review drawings for commercial buildings.  All hand drafted and I was right at home.  Then we got our first high rise building - 9 stories tall and they were CAD plans.  I became a convert instantly.  I am still so many years later trying to learn CAD and resort to the drawing board because I can do it quickly.  Those first CAD drawings were so different in their presentation and I haven't seen this method used by any other firm since then but the electrical, HVAC, plumbing, sprinkler and other systems were duplicated on transparent sheets that could be laid over the floor plan one at a time or combined - one could see how one system crossed over another or couldn't because it was blocked completely.

Now the CAD programs can check for interference's, etc. that just can't be done by hand drafting.

But I have never sat down and looked at a set of CAD plans and marveled at their beauty like I have with hand done drawings.  Looking at ship plans done in CAD cannot compare to studying plans done in the late 1800s up to the 1930s where draftsmen showed wood grain, coal in the bunkers, etc. Some of these hand drawn plans are worthy of framing.  And I actually do have a large ink on linen drawing of a small sloop designed and drawn by Fred Martin dated 1903.  I see new stuff all the time - or maybe I forgot I saw it before - age can do that.

Kurt

 

My Father was furious with me especially since it was his money I spent.  But even though he disagreed with my career choice he always supported me in my endeavors. 

Plus I think he enjoyed the fact he got some return on his investment in free auto maintenance for 30 years.

As far as CAD goes I'm sure I could learn to use the program.  I am into photography and  video editing and have built my own personal computers for years in order to keep up with the best editing software.  You need a lot of CPU power and RAM plus a bunch of storage,  so I found it better to build my own with hardware I had researched for my needs then to settle with what the computer companies were offering . I know a CAD software would preform well on my desktop or laptops. 

I did purchase a CAD software back in 07 to see what it offered but ended up giving it to a buddy. I had even purchased a Home Design software around the same time but just could not get into really learning it and putting it to use and it too was given away.

I enjoy my Drafting Board more then anything.  Years back I felt I needed a bigger board so I designed and built my own. I went to a board size of 7'x5' out of 1" marine grade ply and Red Oak. I needed to be able to mount a Drafting Machine along with a Parallel Slide Bar.  I designed it so I can easily adjust it to any angle I desire and attached two floating adjustable "Full Spectrum " lights so I don't get any shadowing along the edges of my straight edges. I built a cabinet that fits under with large slide out flat drawers for paper and drawing storage. I designed a device much like a paper towel holder which mounts to the underside so I can attach a bulk roll of drawing paper which allows me to pull out and slice of a 24"x36" piece.

I have almost every drafting tool you can think of but from time to time I'll need a replacement or want for another template   I have been surprised at how cheap drafting tools have become especially on eBay.  When I was in school I used a certain brand of .05 mechanical pencil that I protected with my life because they cost $25.00  each and in the early 1970's that was a lot of money for a pencil.  I found a better feeling and better made mechanical pencil a few years back that not only comes in .05 but also .03 and .09 for only $30.00 for all three..  I am shocked how inexpensive these drafting tools have become compared to back in the day. The only thing I found to have held if not gained in cost is Vellum or Mylar drawing stock which is surprising. 

But I agree, I cannot see anything to write home about when viewing a CAD drawing. 

19 minutes ago, Diver said:

I agree with your views.  I went through high school in the mid to late 60s.  I took all the shop classes, drafting, wood working, metal working, and mechanics.  I then went to a true technical college and took Machinst Mechanics training.  I consider myself an old school mechanic.  We used to rebuild parts, not just exchange them until the problem went away.  You would be hard pressed to find a Automotive Service Technician that can rebuild a starter, or turn a brake drum.  

I loved shop classes and drafting classes in middle and high schools. I went on to college getting a degrees in architectural design and commercial graphic design and even though I had spent my youth looking forward to a life as an architect after graduation I had a change of heart. I had always like working with my hands and went back to school to get an associate degree in automotive/ diesel repair.  I spent 20 years in the field as a auto/ diesel technician until I found myself spending another 15 years in the Labor Relations field.

I made extra money in graphic design and some architectural design in the first few years after school but enjoyed working on vehicles more. I totally agree with you on rebuilding parts and making your own repairs around the house or vehicles.  In the past it never crossed my mind to out source something that needed repairing or replacing.  I even did repair jobs on the side ( which if found out could have cost me my licensing ) but it just bothered me that someone who needed help couldn't afford the cost for the work needed done. So I would offer to do the work for the bare minimum and for seniors for the cost of parts or materials.  What I learned early on in school became the foundation of all I learned and done over the years. I have dabbled in so many different fields over my life and the things I had learned in school have carried me through all these years.

I am too old to do many of the things I could easily have done in my youth but just this past summer I did a brake job on my vehicle,  turning my own rotors myself.  I was a little surprised I was still able to do it even though I was pretty sore the next day.

As a side note and this might sound funny but while I was in High School is was mandatory for boys to take a class in Home Economics!  I was fortunate for this early learning during my two divorces, I would have starved and never known how to sew. LOL

I'm just curious,  does anyone still sit at a drafting board and design and draw anymore?

What feels like a thousand years ago, I went to school to be an architect. To my Fathers dismay after graduation I chose to go into a unrelated profession.  But I have used those skills I learned throughout my life.  When I went to school CAD or computer technology was far off into the future. When CAD came into its own over time I never had any desire to take a class or had any use for it to be honest.  IMHO I feel it is not a true form of drafting in the sense it is digital to where actual drafting to me is a form of art.  I'm sure many will disagree with me and I know it is needed in today's digital world with CNC use and with digital 3D perspectives being the norm now for any form of construction or presentation. Maybe I'm just a dinosaur and set in my ways but I cannot see myself having the same sense of personal pride of of accomplishment showing off a digital design viewed from a computer screen or printed on a printer vs. something hand drawn on quality sheet of drafting film.

I worked for a public school district and over the years I watched as they discontinued and dismantled the Middle and High School Drafting Classes along with the Wood and Metal Shop programs. THe teaching done today is focused in how to design in a digital world and how to program machines to do the actual work of construction.

I watched as they gutted those rooms and shops, removing all the tools and machines and drafting tables. Those rooms today are carpeted and air conditioned and full of computers. Students are glued to computer screens all day never learning to take their own idea make a scaled drawing of it, to  build it using their hands and machines and tools like their fathers and grandfathers.  But in today's world of manufacturing this is what is needed to become employed. Its a shame that we no longer teach students to use their hands to design and create.

Today your able to take a CAD design and using a CNC machine produce carvings in wood just as well as a craftsman had done by hand in the past. I guess in time craftsman will be a thing of the past.

Sorry for the rant, I have searched through the forum and I'm just curious if anyone still sits at a Drafting Table and draws by hand anymore. If so, I would like to hear from you.

Thanks,

Tim

Looking forward to your next post. Great Work and Happy Holidays to all.

On 2/4/2020 at 8:12 PM, michael mott said:

Thanks again for the kind remarks, I settled on the oval handle I found a classic one that was for sale on Ebay so used that one as a guide  I liked the 2 inch square plate and the oval head screws. I set up the 1/2 inch collet in the square collet holder and made 4 cuts

 

 

The parted them off on the lathe

 

Next I turned up a ball and filed the sides to create the oval shape it took a bit of fettling to get the correct shape. It occurred to me that it would be best to make the square key part integral to the handle so after shaping the handle I reduced the diameter so that it could be filed square.

 

Slowly I filed down to the 1.2 mm to fit into the square hole in the lock, I used a bit of the same square tube as the gauge while filing to dimension.

 

 

then slid. the handle into the lock, just need to drill the screw holes in the plate and figure out the second handle for the back side of the door.

 

 

 

Michael

Sir,

I just picked up a book called "Glasgow Museums,  The Ship Models"  while reading through it I ran across a quote by Harold A. Underhill

Underhill instructs his readers, "for this class of model one must be willing to scrap any component which, either through accident or lack of skill, is not quite right and not to " make it do"...

"Providing one is willing to take this little extra care, there is nothing in this model which is beyond the powers of the most ordinary model maker. One may as well have [ the details] right", he stressed, "even at the expense of a little extra trouble. He went on to say, "Although personally I do not regard such construction as extra trouble,  rather as extra pleasure,  for the joy of such a model is in the making"

I read this quote and immediately your work came to mind.  The way you have worked and reworked out assorted construction and design problems. Your ability to "scrap out"  beautifully made parts ( IMHO)  to only recreate and construct more intricate or suiting parts to your needs or designs to provide closer scale appearance just amazes me.

Your skills as a model maker are truly amazing and I look forward to future installments. I would also hope you agree with me that Underhill's quote matches with your thoughts on model making.

Tim

7 hours ago, Maury S said:

There are plenty of details in the reconstruction booklet.  No original plans exist.  The plans done by Ben Lankford which you have referenced are quite detailed and I think you can do a lot of detail at that scale.  Additional info on schooners, much of it period metal work,  of the period can be found in Chapelle's "American Fishing Schooners".   Years ago I built that kit at 3/8" scale (1:32).  At 1:32, the model is close to 27" long and 29" tall so keep in mind the space necessary to display.  She's a lovely model.  I'm Currently thinking about doing a POF at 1:48 with her as a schooner (most of her existence was as a schooner). 

Good luck,

Maury

I am thinking of going with 1/2" = 1' for the build.

Wikipedia has her OAL at 39.2' but MSM has her at 45' 9" over all. The set of plans I purchased from Model Shipways years ago are in a scale of 3/8" = 1' 

I'll have to figure out how much they will need to be enlarged to get me to the 1/2" = 1' scale. If anyone could help me with the math, by what percentage will I need to enlarge them when I have copies made?

Tim

9 hours ago, Jaager said:

to add to what Wayne has provided, the book has:

 

94 pages  with two fold out plans  
plans by T.W.Dunn & R.C.Callyn  original 1/2" to foot
in the book ~ 3/32":1'  Lines    Profile and Sail plan

 

There are almost as many drawings as pages - close up detail for many

As for knees, iron or otherwise, this component seems to be altogether absent.

 

I checked SM - I found no listing for this vessel there.

I found another copy up for bid on eBay hopefully I'll win the bid. This time I have written down the sellers info so I will know who posted it if the same thing happens again. 

There are images of some of the pages in the book and even though the set of plans do not go into detail I think the text should provide some needed information. 

Thanks again everyone,.

Tim

2 hours ago, Maury S said:

There are plenty of details in the reconstruction booklet.  No original plans exist.  The plans done by Ben Lankford which you have referenced are quite detailed and I think you can do a lot of detail at that scale.  Additional info on schooners, much of it period metal work,  of the period can be found in Chapelle's "American Fishing Schooners".   Years ago I built that kit at 3/8" scale (1:32).  At 1:32, the model is close to 27" long and 29" tall so keep in mind the space necessary to display.  She's a lovely model.  I'm Currently thinking about doing a POF at 1:48 with her as a schooner (most of her existence was as a schooner). 

Good luck,

Maury

Thanks for the info.

I found some plans on the HAER website of fishing vessels constructed around the same time period and have some good details on construction methods of the period.  I will probably use this information along with what is provided on the set of plans I have to build her.

I'll also use a little "Modelers License " on problems where I do not have enough information.

6 hours ago, trippwj said:

 

There may be some information in the following which documents the restoration of the ECB in 1969

 

Ansel, Willits Dyer. 1973. Restoration of the Smack Emma C. Berry at Mystic Seaport, 1969-1971. Mystic, Conn: Marine Historical Association. ISBN 978-0-913372-08-1

 

 

I found this book on eBay and put in a bid.  For some reason it disappeared from my bid page today when I went to see if I had won the bid it was gone!  

I wasn't out bid, it just vanished completely from my account page. No trace of it anywhere, as if I had never bid! I have never had this happen before. 

Unfortunately I did not record the sellers info and since my bid just vanished I'll  have to try again. I hope I do not bid on a book from the same seller again. 

Thanks for the input. 

This subject may be discussed elsewhere and if so I apologize. 

With that said, I am thinking of modeling the Emma C. Berry from scratch in a scale of 1/2" = 1'  or  3/4" = 1'  I plan on using Model Shipways ECB kit plans that are scaled at 3/8" = 1'.  Unfortunately they have no information on the construction methods used in her original build.

I am trying to figure out some details on how the ship was originally constructed back in 1866. First I am trying to figure out if she was put together using iron bolts for the framing or trunnels ?  Was her planking installed with bolts or trunnels ?

From the few images of her I have found on the internet ,I was able to see that the knee bracing was attached to the deck framing with what appear to be iron bolts. I was not able see any framing detail as far as joints. I also wonder if the bolts I did see were possibly from restorations or modification she may have recieved over the years. I also wonder how the frames themselves were were constructed. 

I wish to model her in a larger scale so I can get into modeling in the finer details.

I would appreciate any help I can get. 

Thanks All,

Tim

On 9/17/2020 at 2:30 AM, Bedford said:

In the interest of full disclosure I should inform you that I'm divorced

 

I used "Selective Hearing" and "Sudden Stupidity " both worked for about 5 years.  Then she caught on and now after 25 years,  if she senses a slight lack of motivation or movement "Large Heavy Objects" come at me at high velocity until I have Heard and Fully Understood! 

NEVER POKE THE BEAR!

On 6/9/2020 at 1:19 PM, KeithAug said:

Eberhard, Chris, Druxey, Richard - thank you all for your comments. Also thanks to everyone for all the likes

 

I made the plinths for the vents and then mounted the vents by inserting spigots into the bores of the stems.

 

I took a lot of photos. I will post these a few at a time over the next few days.

 

I haven't sorted out the rope ears on the life ring yet.

The yellow card is a temporary dust shield - I am getting fed up with cleaning out below decks.

IMHO I would paint the interior of the funnels a flat black