iMustBeCrazy

8 hours ago, oakheart said:

Now I am confused. I do not get the reference?

I was thinking barrels of cognac, thus joining the smugglers.

8 hours ago, oakheart said:

should I add two more in the corners, it would also hide that ugly gap.

There would likely be six, they should disappear through the deck (or appear to).

1 hour ago, oakheart said:

some of the barrels

You've said a few times "it's not Speedy", are you joining the other team?

1 hour ago, mtaylor said:

I would think these vessels used something similar.

I was thinking the same later but couldn't find any evidence. But I think you're right.

6 hours ago, oakheart said:

and just to confirm my decision

And it is your decision, you are owner and master.

However, many things are left off the drawings, none of the 'family portraits' show catheads, horses, backstays, ............. as far as I can remember.

6 hours ago, oakheart said:

What are they called, on the transom, those angled timbers.

Counter timbers. They usually stand on the wing transom and extend to the taffrail.

58 minutes ago, oakheart said:

I can't see any details on the drawings

ZAZ6349 (Vigilant as fitted) I think is the only 'family member' drawing that shows anything. It's quite an elaborate structure with two wc's and a number of lockers and extends all the way to the stern.

10 hours ago, druxey said:

with a slot for the tiller.

I suspect they had a canvas cover over the slot and tiller.

4 hours ago, oakheart said:

I just need to put some kind of lining around the post just to neaten it up

You might find THIS thread useful.

7 hours ago, oakheart said:

Is that from zaz6425? I have a copy of that, should have checked it.

It's the Danish version, G5757 .

2 hours ago, oakheart said:

a much nicer tiller

A much nicer tiller indeed.

1 hour ago, oakheart said:

My feeling about the original drawing is that it does not look right?

Original?

9 minutes ago, oakheart said:

talking of notch, it looks like the straps are rebated onto the wood of both the rudder and sternpost?

Don't think I will be doing that.

Yep. Don't blame you, lots of things just don't scale well.

Another interesting one, dated 1830.

Note that the forward edge of the pintle lines up roughly with the forward edge of the rudder and that the 'notch' is depicted dashed indicating a pocket which will look like a shallow notch from the side.

This one's interesting, Study of a rudder lying on the shore 1835.

2 hours ago, oakheart said:

now suddenly I making the rudder

It all has to be done sometime and the brain needs a little vacation from time to time. Sometimes it needs a little ego boost (look what I did! type of thing).

The sternpost probably tapered (say 8 inches to 6 inches) and also the rudder (say 6 inches to 4 inches) and the rudder had a rounded leading edge (see shading on drawing).

Then again I might be wrong:

https://collections.rmg.co.uk/media/543/233/l0251.jpg

https://collections.rmg.co.uk/media/544/197/l0418_001.jpg

https://collections.rmg.co.uk/media/543/699/l0330_002.jpg

It seems the only tapering was from top to bottom. Add it to the list of things drawings don't show.

3 hours ago, oakheart said:

Question, can anyone tell me if there would have been scuppers on a cutter like this?

I can find only one picture showing what are probably scuppers, none of the drawings show them.

However there must have been some kind of deck drainage.

It is possible that the bulwark planking had a gap at deck level but Lapwing/Speedy drawings show waterways so that's ruled out, which leaves scuppers.

Given the waterline, I would guess aft of the pumps possibly between the gun ports as below (tiny green dots).

23 hours ago, AJohnson said:

if I'm reading the text properly it says Draft of Cutter "built" 9th September 1790

ZAZ6418 says: built at Plymouth by W.Thos Dunsterville and Launched 9th Septem 1790.

4 minutes ago, oakheart said:

it saves cutting the rabbet which can be difficult to get right

It does. I think I'll enhance the drawing with a couple of other views and this version will be the standard one. I'll leave the complex version and may use it in a full PoF if I go there later.

Done!

Trims glued in place to the Aft piece then the Aft piece glued to the Forward piece.

This provides the rabbets without having to cut them.

Sitting in place.

And it fits. (provided it mates up with the counter).

12 minutes ago, oakheart said:

Your persistence is

Required?

Anyway, I re-drawn a simple outline an test fitted it, looks ok.

I've also re-drawn the complex version and added a different simplified version.

Well, hopefully third times the charm. Yep stuffed up again, the second one's too tall. So I've deleted all my transom drawings and have started agian.

Measurements taken from the plans. These are in full scale inches and model scale millimetres and the two heights above keel have been transferred to the model.

The other two measurements are the height of the transom, vertically as drawn and the actual height.

So the drawing must be stretched vertically by the ratio 47 1/8 divided by 44 1/8 (or 24.9/23.3).

The green dashed lines below represent the as drawn, the orange as stretched.

Then I have to work out the trim pieces and the rabbets. As the orange line now represents the transom inside the hull planking I need a new line 2" outside the orange line. So with the aid of the small pink circles, we get the pink line (this ignores the fact that the hull widens as it goes forwards).

This also gives the hull planking rabbet on the forward side of the trim pieces (between the pink and orange lines).

To get the width of the trim (6 inches) I use the big circles giving the dark green line.

And the small blue circles give the aft rabbet (light blue line) for the transom planking.

Oh what fun.

11 minutes ago, oakheart said:

That looks good

Thanks Tim.

New v old.

You might check out Chucks Cheerful thread ( Page 5 ), first image shows a model cutter with a similar stern and over the next few pages Chuck shows how he did it on Cheerful.

Six hours later

While I wait for the glue to dry enough to sand it here's the other transom.

I posted above that I had already cut the trim pieces for this version but I still had to mill the rabbets, this was a pain. First I started milling the wrong corner, just a touch before I noticed but it will have to be patched. Second the bit kept grabbing the grain.

But I succeeded reasonably.

I milled (saw mill not mill mill) some timber for the transoms and fitted them with 'big' rebates. The wing transom gets mounted a little high as it gets a slightly curved top.

Rinse and repeat for the other three. A bit rough but they will be hidden and I've taken measurements for the drawings so future builders should do better.

You can see the milled rabbets, on the forward side for the hull planking and on the aft side for the transom planking.

Planked and awaiting sanding.

Disaster delayed

Here we go, a thing of beauty.

Pity she's wrong Somewhere along the line I've done something not good.

At the top where the transom meets the counter it should be 10ft wide (inside the planking) this one's 9ft 3inches.

Oh well, I was going to build another anyway.

44 minutes ago, oakheart said:

so you could see inside?

That I think might be a problem with things like the false deck, but I'll think about it.

I've been contemplating doing the centre section in real frames.

While doing said contemplation I realised I've been over thinking the 'as built' transom. It will be far easier now.

Thanks Tim.

To finish off this transom a strip the thickness of the planking is glued to the edge of the transom.

When both sides are done a second MDF transom the same size as the first will be glued inside the first creating a step (or rabbet) so that the plank ends will but against the trim as in this mock-up.

First, a couple of shots that I left out the other day.

The rabbet.

And tapering the spine, from zero at the bearding line to just under the thickness of the planking at the rabbets (keel and stern post).

Yesterday my band saw died (it was only an Aldi cheapie). Luckily I had planned for that and had a spare (same but cheaper, bought on sale) but I still had a lot of setting up to do.

The build restarted with the transom/s. I will be building two, as built and easier.

Easier first:

1st I cut out 2 3mm MDF transoms. Like the one on the right, the other bits covered by paper are the trims for both methods.

Next I made a 'raft' from 6.6mm x 1mm Huon Pine.

Glued (rubber cement) on the template and cut it out.

Glued the 'raft' and some trim I made earlier to one MDF transom.

Cleaned it up a bit (look at that grain, perfect size).

Ant took a gratuitous photo of the model.

It's not finished yet, more to come.

I've also done more work on the drawings, coming soon.