Vladimir_Wairoa

8 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Bob Cleek, Rob & Vladimir

It took the better part of the afternoon, running and pausing the video more times than I can remember. Anyhow, here's my sketch of the name board for McKay's last Clipper "Glory of the Seas."

Richard its lovely, clapping hands. amazing rendition of the letters. 

woohoo. should i digitalize it ?  i would maybe render S a little less rounder as chisel keeps sharp edges defined at every turn  but im over the moon. 

Beautiful approach and execution Druxey. thx for sharing. 

Dear all,

this is beginning of bringing to life one of most famous and beautiful vessel of American gold era of clipper lineage, last D. McKays clipper.

She materialized same year as British cutty sark, being medium clipper of 2000 something tons, cutty sark should be a little smaller sibling sister of distant world comparing to it. But composite not wooden with different buidling philosophy and tradition and innovations far apart of what was going on in new world.

Some brief introduction needed.

Its been one and a half years now of my modeling and joining this great site of maritime interest. This attempt started boldly with enthusiasm and knowledge of few great skilled folks around Rob Wiedderich, (not included myself, im merely just a fan ) and  effort has lasted now about for one year of research, It wouldnt have been  without everyone passion to question and doubt every single measurement and photograph thew to the table.

It must be stated that Michael Mjelde , the last authority of Glory subject helped himself to  this effort, providing some rare unpublished photographs to be seen, measured and calculated.

His design of bulkheads was used but reshaped to the point, that bearing in mind there were not merely all photographs available in time of his drawing, various aspects of vessel were significantly redesigned. Mostly speaking of stern and bow profile, sheer line gradients on aft and forwards.

Since I built cutty in almost no shipmodeling skills, I learn a bits from Chucks group installments atm. I helped guys to draw lines in program and knowing folk that can laser cut, challenge rose to have her done.  After hull is completed we intend to continue research and program draw her deck installments, as true as possible. I myself want to have hull completed by end of this year to the milestone of famous McKays launch photography to be able to celebrate with folks interested  around christmas. Thats for this years plan. Work continues lately on designing glorys figurehead , once it is successful we would like her to be 3D printed of some sort. Design of ship will follow model shipways fantastic method of clipper building and drawing followed that method in mind...

My enthusiasm rose with few categories. First, I am truly happy that not another flying fish clipper is to be built, but a NEW vessel. And it wouldnt be without books of Michael Mjelde, and his writing ability to almost personify and breath live to story which itself it so fascinating and true. be it her birth as last McKays attempt to gamble on his debts by putting all effort to make the best of his hands, at the verge of era that finally won against him, but ship herself proved to be so well built and successful throughout her life. and tragic end of course that is sad part of her story. Clippers remain my favourites in ships, and I intend to build her to my very best with some very best of materials ans boxwood for moldings....be it even few years...but when I have window, I can speed up for sure. Thank you everyone interested in advance, I think Rob and Richard are building as well, and everyone is encourage to build one for himself as well.

" An account of the ship in Boston and San Francisco newspapers in 1869 :

This is a magnificent vessel of 2102 tons register, with capacity to carry double that amount of california freight. She has three decks, with all her acxcomodations on the upper deck, and is of a splendid model to carry and sail. Her bow has a bold,  dashy rake, with lightly concave lines below, but convex above and terminates in a full femae classical figure with flowing drapery. The stern is curylinear, finely formed, and the run is long and clean and sets gracefully into fullness of the hull. The stern is tastefully ornamented with gilded carved work on a black ground. viewedd broadside she has all imposing majesty of a ship of war, combined with the airy buyoancy of a clipper. Every seam of her planking harmonizes beautifully with her sheer, everyone who has any idea of nautical beauty and grandeur combined, cannot fail to admire her. Her talented builder Mr.Donald McKay has produced many splendid vessels, but we consider this one an improvement of them all. Not only on account of her matchless beauty, but also on account of her great strength, and completeness of her equipment.

she is 250 ft long, LBP, 265ft LOA, and 44 ft beam, 28 ft 6 inches depoth of hold, with three full decks.

here are some bits from designing....

Chapter 1.

centerline

I tried to make sure keel line is straight, and fastened 2 pine blocks over laser cut joint as it was still a bit wobbly. its 6 mm poplar, amazingly light and breeeze to sand off. Centerline is ready to put rabbet line and stem to be thinned to propriate thickness. 

apology for long post, it was introduction so next it will be very short. hopefully soon

Thanks, Vlad

5 hours ago, Bob Cleek said:

Apropos of nothing relevant at this point in the discussion, but in the spirit of "every bit helps," I'll pass on the fact that Glory of the Seas' nameboard is hanging on the wall in  the J. Porter Shaw Library, Fort Mason, San Francisco (SF Maritime Historical Park.)  It is mentioned at 1:57 of the video on the library website:  https://www.kahnfoundation.org/j-porter-shaw-maritime-library/

Thank you Bob. wooow it is there on the wall in 2. minute with all the glory  

even I dont uneerstand it in true sense  folks i feel you share also some good humor, which i like really. I arleady started Keith. just  lazy to open  topic :)) 

Folks, some happy thinking ahead of building...

Did you think about finish you are commit to her? 

Black ? Original launch color? Im really thinking longer about that as to use some beautiful natural wood as pear or make justice to typical clipper of McKay era. Blue on waterway etc..so for me ut comes like this. Either declare colors or...go with wood - light or dark...what do you think? 

Guys, why noone warned me that this will be toughest ? . I mean toughest. 

Im glad that i skipped this in hull...i ruined few planks before made it watchable for myself. But it was barely watchable  closeup. I ruined cuple and made only 2 planks for entire day !!!!  Third went better with some workaround. I feel  Its constant battle with myself and winnie. I dont wanna loose it. Its really beautiful when done well but  Who invented that  ? Well my first of these...thankfully done! Yay. Now Only thinning planks. I think im done.:) i hope worst is over. Line is straight so contiuing should be without pain. I made center plank thin as didnt have different measured of planks... . 

5 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

This image shows the right pin in the lower slot for flat strakes......and the right pin removed and placed in the upper slot for strakes following the deep curve of the bow or stern.

 

I modeled the clamps after one I saw on ModelExpo.  They are made of hard maple.

 

I'm getting as much done in preperation for this fantastic build.

 

Rob

Rob,Richard, 

request to cut bulkheads was already made . Guy needs to order plywood of apropriate thickness. Once I hear back from him I will ship those. Interesting clamps. I use those black pins for stacking paper sheets. 

V.

9 minutes ago, rafine said:

Very nicely done.

 

Bob

Thank you Bob, all. 

Folks, its been some time I checked few progresses on yours , happy to see some updates...... I have few small updates though. First, finally my batch of PEAR wood for decking is about to arrive this week so I am pretty excited. after i recovered from captains cabin overkill, I moved to the rudder and bow and stained gratings which I like.

I think planking deck will take a long while i dont want to rush it, so I wont post anytime soon, and finally I have to order those carved stuff, i should have  a long ago as pointing figurehead now will be surprise but thats me...obvious. one thing. I am glad I didnt go for Chuck proper way to put paper on those cheeks...I realized I would have messed up gluing tiny papers on round wood. It is difficult part for me... Instead, I labored., FIrst I painted those with pastel blue, but was not satisfied, with color shade  and it was not permanent. I mixed oil colors where is it a breeze to catch any shade of blue in a spot...and voila I am quite happy. I still have to work on  clean outcome of work and should have painted blue before gluing both sides but...I managed to clean it with turpentine thankfully... I must say there is visible joint of those two timbers without covering it with paper.,distracting at first glance as it draws sight to it but I think with ornamentals it will be different......but there is one on old prototype as well. depends on how you look at it. I managed to make one realy fine but other is not that perfect which is killing me but at the end i cant have it perfect. one important thing. angling is really important with these ,,....and i didnt dare to drill holes. I will leave it black. and there will never be an anchor going thru . happy with black paint telling what it is..started working on rudder lately.....here it goes...

1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

Interesting....however...I tend to believe this is just another optical illusion we are seeing.  The curve of the bow viewed from below the profile can give the illusion it is bowing down...when, if you look at the drawings it does no such thing.  The half model of the Games Baines only reinforces this phenomena...because it to is viewed slightly below the profile.

 

IMV....all we are seeing is the curve of the bow and from this particular angle it appears to bow down....going in its natural curve. 

Just hold a cup up and look at it from the side...its edge is flat...but then rotate it slightly so as to look at it from below its profile and the edge begins to bow down.

 

My observations anyway. 

 

Rob

exactly what i was afterward thinking of.  it might  visual deception of turning curvature downward but . i see it on cutty sark model looking at her  only from very very very bottom - then it is evident. hovewer looking straight at level angle it raises steadily. sooo.....  

20 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, Vladimir,

rom the MAAS Museum, Australia comes this beautiful half Hull model by Ron Haug, of the 1855 McKay Australian James Baines 'Black Ball' Line Clipper "Donald McKay, 

Here's an article from the Museum's site:

 

https://collection.maas.museum/object/570557

beautiful lines. looking somehow familiar... but what i find interesting is somewhat slight drop of topgallant rail after constant rise towards bow watching from aft forward. very very sharp stem angle  of McKay.what  I find most interesting in these ships is accomodation of bowsprit. after closer look bowsprit is almost square at the insert and square going thru knighthead i think. not sure though. 

5 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir, thank you! You shared a bit of "Cutty Sark" design history that previously, I never knew existed. Too bad Victorian society wouldn't have accepted such a lovely stern. This would have tied the Bow and Stern together so much better. Tam O'Shanter and his Trusty grey mare Maggie are neatly portrayed on the Port while a bag piping demon is on the Starboard. Meanwhile 'Nannie Dee' dancing is even prettier in this sketch than on her figurehead. She even appears to be smiling too. There's just enough clarity on the Port side to read "Weel Done, Cutty Sark!" in the flowing scroll below her top counter but try as I might, I cannot make out what's inscribed on the Starboard side. Can you? Do you know if there's a more detailed image of this?

It's unfortunate that, to my knowledge "Glory of the Seas" has very few scenes of her embellished rear Stern, which most likely echoed the beautiful flowery carving of her Cutwater arch.

youre welcome Richard. i counld decipher that as well. didnt find more here. if i find something ill post. https://www.rmg.co.uk/national-maritime-museum

From what I understand  glorys stern was originally  highly decorated with carvings ( impossible to see ) but later it was simplified with just name of the ship, is that right? 

9 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir, Michael Mjelde told me that one the most exciting events of his promotional tour for his 1970 book 'Glory of the Seas' was a stop at India House, Manhattan. There he was able to see the Goddess 'Athene' figurehead close up. He also got to rub elbows with the world famous miniaturist Donald McNarry. He said he managed to get some black & white and color pictures of the figurehead. So far he hasn't been able to locate them. I'm still hoping he does one day.

Meanwhile, I'm not sure how familiar you are with the inspiration of Jock Willis' famous Dumbarton Tea Clipper "Cutty Sark." Portrayed here is the original lovely Figurehead of the comely Witch 'Nannie Dee' as sketched by the Ship's designer Hercules Linton. Since her current 60 year old Figurehead has dry rot, they're currently carving her replacement which appears to be much closer than the one mounted to her Bow now. There's a fantastic tale behind the creation of "Cutty Sark" which refers back to a pivotal scene in Robert Burns' epic poem about the misadventures of Scotland's most infamous town drunk 'Tam O'Shanter' and his loyal mount 'Maggie.' Burns' tale made use of familiar landmarks still standing today. 

After imbibing at his favorite watering hole, Tam stumbles on a incredible scene of witches, warlocks, devils and demons cavorting in wild abandon. Chief amongst them is a scantily clad witch 'Nannie' whose enthusiastic seductive dancing in a too short chemise gets Tam to exclaim 'Weel Done, Cutty Sark!"

(In Scottish Cutty Sark means short shirt) This leads to a life or death chase with Tam barely making it across the 'Brig O'Doon.' Fortunately hobgoblins can't cross beyond the keystone of a bridge. However Tam's loyal steed 'Maggie' pays for his foolishness with the loss of her long tail, still in the grasp of the furious witch 'Nannie Dee!' 

So now, in the immortal words of famous radio personality 'Paul Harvey' you know the "rest of the tale."

lovely pics. Yes I rememver i saw Clintons original pics and story back when modeling cutty. I was even more taken by his stern design. 

Its part of history  that conservative society as victorian London didnt get away with erotic-witch etc portrayal, its obvious that nowadays its different. 

1 hour ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir,

Off and on since 2009 I've been living with Glory's stunning Grecian Goddess Athene. Here are 2 of my better sketches. The top is probably most accurate but she's a little too low. However, these were done many years before Michael Mjelde's magnificent images were shared with us.

I'll get right on this. I'll endeavour to do one each in 1:72nd and 1:96th scale. At 1:72nd it will be 1&1/4" and at 1:96th it's 13/16th of an inch. Piece of cake! 

wonderful. she is one of loveliest figureheads there is. 

4 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob,I saw both miniature figureheads years ago. Based on the limited knowledge available on Glory's figurehead, you did a credible job. I suspect because the Tartan McKay figurehead was less complicated in comparison, your effort was more refined. Both must have been quite a challenge considering their diminutive size. Meanwhile, Rob and Vladimir, here's a fascinating article on how a modern day replica of a full scale ship's figurehead is carved. What surprised me was the bread & butter use of laminates to form a rough outline of the whole. After 60 years of exposure to the elements, Scottish Clipper Ship 'Cutty Sark' Figurehead Witch 'Nannie Dee' of Robert Burns' famous poem "Tam O'Shanter" has developed dry rot and is getting a much improved replacement. This Witch will more closely resemble Hercules Linton's beautiful sketch. The existing figurehead was a copy of the Ship's Carpenter's version after her original one was lost at sea. With the advent of 3D printers, I was thinking if I could sketch enough images, maybe that's a solution which could be employed. Here's a link to the article: https://www.maritimawoodcarving.co.uk/maritima-commissions/the-cutty-sark/

Very ineteresting link thanks Richard. If you managed to sketch Athene for 3d print it would be godsend. if that smaller Nannie is 3d printed its fabulous. i intend to install on 1:72 glory nothing short of spectacular, and im not about to try even remembering how tough was nannie for cutty i carved. - which has been leaving me till now without thinking of figurehead. what i was  thinking about was some sort of existing  athenes figures of greek tourists souvenirs, ...but it would be rubbish.

beautiful cannons Bob. congrats. 

8 hours ago, Ron Burns said:

Hi everyone

Back in business! My Byrnes saw arrived Wednesday and I am one happy camper! This saw is everything good that has ever been written or spoken about it. In all honesty it took a bit to become accustomed to its ways but it was minimal. What a difference from what I was using. Once again I should have listened and saved my pennies instead of trying to get away with cheap. Anyways, Winnie is back on track, some new planks are cut and I'll start building again tomorrow. Having consistent results from the saw should make a world of difference!   

what a machine. i envy you Ron. in a good sense  enjoy. 

1 hour ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir, Wow! That's such beautiful work. So, is your day job merely crafting violins? Between you and Rob I feel like a toddler amongst Gods, when it comes to modeling skills. I would love to see the 18th Century vessel you're modeling too.

haha interesting, i feel lik todler among you and Rob as well , when it comes to knowledge so there must be balance in the world. meaning  i will always have a easy questions to ask...

1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

One blaring issue I want to tackle with this new build....is.

 

All these kit designs call for a pretty hefty keel.  Cut from the same plywood the bulkheads are cut from.  The only problem is, is the stem is not to scale.

It is much too wide to be accurate.   By reviewing the cutwater and stem of the Glory in her many photographs of them...you can see it is quite thin.  5"~6" probably.

 

I'll most likely be adding the keel and stem after the hull is planked...and great care must be taken to fare in the bow and stern so as not to make the transition out of scale or unruly.

 

Any input on this issue?

 

Rob

Rob I will probably sand off the plywood keel to thin it. and will see if i can manage ˇ will be balck painted anyway i guess glorys hull was black. therefore i see no big issue here. there is already curvature underneath of athene feet laser cut and marking lines where ornamentals and navalhood exactly go with lines where stem thickens between navalhood and below ornamenta...i will stick with that personaly. 

Thanks guys. I started woodworking with violins, than tried to my first ship - without any knowledge about ship modeling. - croziers hms terror. i never showed i to anyone and i dont intend to  than i made 1:24 enormous cutty sark with same strategy knowing even less about modeling but in the process of it i jumped here on msw and shifted my approach so i started to observe what other ps are doing to make it easier for me. believe or not i managed to sell her so I can finance these hobbies easily. /  which i would never attempt to with glory.

hms winchelsea here on group project is my 3rd attempt. im near the wrap . next to be magnificent glory that i intend to dedicate to her a couple of years . i am basically novice and totally inexpereince in rigging - where Rob excels both in cleanlines and aesthetic mastery. in my view. ill try to find some photos of violin though. i also paint. that is my main hobby though, one day thinking of trIng maritime. i am focused portraits -= self taught though. thats about me. i think i have a video of making violin...

few photos

I have recently planked 18 century frigate Guys, with all the hot bending  and tapering. advantage of it is no sanding needed no mess but its tedious. all to measured and i have iron bender for violin making so it wa OK. but i think its not something that suits Robs quick  approach  so each to his own

same thickness of planks i intend to use for glory. its 5 mm planks.

21 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir,

At one time American Clippers were revolutionary concepts to the rest of the nautical world. For Centuries, literally Great Britain had a stranglehold Monopoly on shipping Tea from China. That business was the 'East India Tea Company.' They set what can only be called a leisurely pace. So leisurely in fact that every night they would take in all the sails and simply drift.

When England finally revoked the Monopoly laws in the 1850s and allowed foreign competition, American Clippers brought Chinese Tea to market in a revolutionary short time. This stunned British Merchants which scrambled to catch up. 

Tragically USA's horribly cataclysmic Civil War destroyed America's dominance when Confederate Raiders destroyed so many of our fast sailing ships. America never recovered from that event. If you want to learn about the many incredibly beautiful American Clippers, Google 'Lars Bruzelius' for his magnificent resource of dozens of amazing American Clipper Ships which dwarfed their British counterparts. 

Thank  for inside Richard. I already stumbled to his website so i will be checking on it. I am finally after 2 years of longing getting book from Crothers  american build clipper ship  on my birthday so i am over the mood to be able study that one in winter  for start.  

11 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

Isn't that cool...she's taken you over....hasn't she?

 

McKay ships are amazing and doing the historical research makes it all the more fun.

 

Thanks again.

 

Rob

well being from coutry in what perimeter only " cutty sark was known as clipper" i never heard of american clipper till than - which wasnt wooden vessel for the start...missing epitome of what wooden clipper era meant i missed. i admire wooden vessels much more and final mastering of wooden craft and clippers of america is unsurpassed obviously . There is so much to learn  and appreciate from design, carpentery, wood  cabinetry, glorious  style and modernity of wooden building...fantastic...