Matrim

This is a great build.. Question - how fiddly was it to work at 1:80? I attempted 1:60 with my last and found that almost too small so am considering 1:48 for the re-start but (even for a frigate) that is much larger. 

Is that deck supplied like that? interesting...
 
With the bulwark color it is up to you. I tend to paint mine red ochre but if you like the color of the wood plain then that is fine as well.
 
 

According to documentation provided at this site, Terror's bulwarks were painted yellow. The exact shade is not described, but the Admiralty must have had some sort of standardized color scheme for vessels of that type and period.

Hi Paul,
 
Yes, I was aware of the dates and the correct flag for 1790, but I kind of argued with myself that as the ship survived until 1814 then either flag would probably have been OK ! (at least within the right time period.)
(The correct 1790 flag would have been easier as I wouldn't have had to have it flipped and it couldn't have been displayed upside down either  )
 
I'm sure there are (in fact I KNOW there are!) a few more "slightly less than accurate" features on the ship so I'm not unduly worried about the flag!

I wanted to contribute my build log for the Astesania Latina L'Hermione. Unfortunately I didn't start taking pictures of my progress until the hull planking had been completed and much of the gun deck work was well underway.

This is my first attempt at wooden model ship building. I came to this hobby with some plastic kit modeling experience (mostly aircraft and armored vehicles) and some cabinet making and wood working skills. I chose the L'Hermione kit because it seemed to provide a wide variety of challenges that come with an warship of that era and because the price would keep the “Abort” option available.
 
As I started this kit I was completely ignorant of the various wooden model ship building networks and stumbled through the earliest phases of planking the hull on a trial and error basis. Needless to say some of that planking went through several iterations of application before I was happy with the outcome.
 
There were a few things that I cam across during this process that are worth highlighting. During the the finishing and shaping of the hull I found that a woodworking tool known as a cabinet scrapper was a very useful tool. For those of you not familiar with this tool it is a flat piece of mildly hardened steel on the edge of which a kind of burr is created. This burr acts as a nearly microscopic plane that scrapes a small amount of wood off the work as it is drawn across the surface. I found this tool made it easier to detect the highs a lows in the hull surface and to be able to quickly work those areas. The straight or consistent edge of the scrapper also eliminates much of the “following” that comes with sandpaper. Often sandpaper makes things smooth but not necessarily along a consistent arc or plane. The other process that took some time to master was the fill material to be used to span gaps in the planking. I started out using modelers putty (Squadron or Tamiya). These putties are difficult to apply consistently and smoothly and require considerable sanding to remove. I found I had to reapply repeatedly before I had an acceptable finish. So, I began experimenting with alternatives. The two option I found where drywall joint compound and water-based wood glue. The drywall compound is easy to apply and sands much easier but it adds moisture to the planking and this can and did result in many drying cracks. The wood glue does a great job of filling the finest of the cracks and I used it as a final step prior to painting.
 
A word on caution regarding the AL supplied gun port templates. The ports on the templates are of all shapes and sizes, most are rectangular but many are trapezoids or parallelograms.
 
Like I said, I was completely ignorant of all the great advice available to me and I'm sure many of you read the above discussion while nodding their head and saying “Yup, that's right”. My introduction to this group came as I was seeking advice about cannon rigging for the 12 pound gun deck cannons. From here on out there will be pictures to make this more interesting.
 
 

As I was completing the planking of the gun deck I began to wonder if the AL instructions were correct. The instructions call for the deck planking to be laid out beginning on either side of the centerline of the deck. As you begin to lay out the stagger of the deck planking it becomes clear that this arrangement makes for an asymmetric layout. There is an inherent left and right side. It seems like the layout would be better if there where a single plank that overlaps the centerline. I can see that there are some practical drawbacks to this because that last plank cannot be installed until the two gun deck pieces are glued to the hull.
 
I was not happy with the way AL wanted the cannons to be rigged. The very short breeching lines do not look like anything seen on a real warship. In fact zu Mondfeld illustrates this arrangement as specifically the “Wrong!” rigging layout. So, I decided to use the “Correct!” rigging as illustrated by zu Mondfeld. In addition, I could see from many other illustrations that gun tackle was usually also attached an would have been used as a way to secure the cannon to the bulwark while under way. None of this gun tackle is part of the kit so it need to been fabricated. I used the smallest line available from Syren along with 2mm single and double blocks. I used a black enamel copper wire for the stropping on the blocks and the “Zip Seizing” technique as described and demonstrated on the “Wooden Ship Modeling for Dummies” website. A great website, by the way http://www.shipmodeling.ca/aaplandusite.html . Lastly, I decided to use the French coils for the gun tackle fall. I'm pretty happy with how this looks. I wasn't sure how to get the length of the gun tackle right so I tightened each one in place individually. I don't think I'll do that again.

As I moved to the main deck the question of cannon rigging came up again. I am still happy with the breeching arrangement I used for the 12-pound gun deck cannon. As I worked my way up the learning curve I could see that the gun tackle for a cannon firmly secured to the bulwark is commonly frapped as a way of better securing the tackle and a better way to use some of the fall from that tackle. I used the same materials as were used for the gun deck cannons. Having the gun tackle frapped required that they be made to length and then installed. I made a simple alligator clip jig to replicate the required length. I think I like the looks of the frapped tackle better than the arrangement used for the gun deck cannon.




 

She's looking fantastic, keep up the great work.

Your deck planking looks great!

On the gun rigging I find it unsurprising that the kit may have a less than optimal approach, most manufacturers either simplify and sometimes re-use across models to keep costs down. I always find it more satisfying scratch building the correct way so good for you..

I was in contact with Messis during this time and he had just posted some great suggestions for positioning a galley below the forward hatch on the main deck. I followed his example and installed a galley in that position. Thanks Messis.

 

I've had the exact same experience with ME.  No response to my issue and then a few days later a package shows up on the front doorstep with replacement parts.
 
If they could close up their communications gap issue, they would probably never get a complaint of any kind!

Here are the final photos of the build. I would like to thank the draftsmen and organizers of this online build for all of your efforts to make this cross section a reality. I'd also like to thank all of you who wrote encouraging comments along the way It's been a lot of fun to build her and I've learned quite a bit that I can incorporate into future projects.
 

 

Almost there!  There is light at the end of the tunnel.

Thanks all. exotichardwoods also seem to have wood my table saw can cut (blanks for guitars from the looks of things). The pear is steamed though so I am enquiring as to whether they are the ones steaming.
 
Otherwise beech/american cherry will be the way to go.

Makes a change.. It is always risky wettening and hoping the plank dries in the correct shape as wood can do strange things when drying.. One advantage to shaping off model is that you can apply hair dryers (and the like ) to speeding up the drying and I have managed to curve ebony with this method which is not easy.
 
If you have the time then I strongly recommend looking through one of the pinned planking topics. The one I list below has links to some excellent tutorials where you can probably grab some techniques...
 
 

The white beech or steamed beech looks the best in my opinion. 

May I suggest looking at this place as well?
http://www.exotichardwoods.co.uk/
They are helpful and have more wood that is not in the catalogue.

In U.K. you should find pear (unsteamed). That is a nice to work.

Wow, Bruce !!  Boxwood!   logs though - likely not too large-  Unless it is possible to access a band saw 14" or large - processing it will involve frustration and agony - would not consider it for framing but grabbing a serious supply for use as blocks, catheads, davits,  bitts ,  belfreys,  is worth considering.
The Pear though -  if it is quality and is 4x4 or 8x4  and the price is reasonable - back up a truck and fill it.
 
Matrim,
I would score everything on your list as an excellent choice but the Red Cedar.  I have no experience with it.  Beech seems similar to Hard Maple  but a tad darker.  Hard Maple and Black Cherry are my choices for framing.  They are domestic species for me and easy to get.  
Basswood is way too soft and iffy about holding a sharp edge to me.  Lime is the same genus but a bit harder - enough harder, I seriously question.   Yellow Poplar  is similar in hardness, but it works as though it were a lot harder.  It will hold a sharp edge.  The stock that I have gotten is excellent for framing - if you totally plank over it.  The color range in a single board can go from tan to green to a color that looks like creosote treated Pine - ugly brown.  Good looks ain't its thing.
POF uses a lot of wood.  A frigate @ 1:48 - you are looking at maybe 10-20 BF.  More if you cut your frames from stock that is glued into a "U" and cement the frame pattern to it, a lot more.
The volume of wood used for everything but framing is reasonable enough to make using imported species worth considering.
For framing, it makes for a more reasonable budget outlay the use species that are domestic where you live.
 
While good Apple is king,  it is a bear to obtain.   Your Pear - Pyrus communis - steamed (Swiss) or not comes in a close second.  I love Black Cherry, but Pear is better.  The hard species of Maple domestic for you is Sycamore maple, European sycamore   Acer pseudoplatanus.   It is probably close enough in hardness to make not worth paying a premium  for imported Acer saccharum.  
 
Because Underhill praised Sycamore Naple,  but called it Sycamore,  I bought a supply of our Sycamore -  American Plane  Platanus occidentalis .  A more awful species would take work to find. well maybe Siberian Elm or Lombardy Poplar.

It is (from this supplier) - I always thought that was too soft for decent frame building? Hence why I ignored tulipwood as well.
 
The list I am picking from can be seen here.

https://www.woodshopdirect.co.uk/planed-all-round/
 
I am ignoring most of the African wood due to toxicity issues..

Hi all, I am starting to consider re-starting my Amphion scratch build so am looking (again) at wood choices.

For the frame (as that's what i will be on for the next eight gazillion years) I have the following options. The list is constrained by a particular supplier and the fact that I have decided I do not have the space to size wood myself so am buying planed to a size where by Byrnes can cope (so 'thin')
 
White Beech
Steamed Beech (above but pinkier/darker)
American Cherry
Canadian Hard Maple
Western Red Cedar
 
I started with American Cherry so may just keep with that but thought I may look around at some other low grain options. Any opinions on suitability will be gladly welcomed..

 

So I redid the bowspit. I had 'stained' the mast (as I have done with previous kits) and was not entirely delighted with the results. When stained it was a little too dark (and grubby) whereas when unstained the standard dowels where too white. After asking for some advice here I ordered some Castello boxwood (lemonwood) and  resolved to size it myself. This will be a long winded post as I intend to go into exhaustive detail into something that doesn't need it.
 
First up I cut my 1*1 sticks down to something that could be more easily sized. Here is the blank next to one of my earlier test bowsprits
 

Next I secured it on my lathe Using a 4 adjustable jaw chuck, which isn't ideal but unavoidable with a rectangular shape.
 

The next thing to have ready is the correct tool for the job. When I first sized the kit dowels I had tried to use my favourite sizing tool but it was actually a little too unweildy for the job. This time I searched for a more useful tool. At the bottom is the incorrect and the top the correct.
 

So first up is to roughly make it a cylinder larger than the thickest size using the default sizing tool (shown at the bottom of the photo)
 

 
I then thinned the end to 6mm before marking the correct locations using a pencil whilst the lathe spun slowly
 

Next up I sized the section from the end to the thickest section in the middle
 

 
Before using a fine sandpaper to improve the finish
 

 
Here is the 'finished' end
 

 
Next up I flipped the bowsprit around (the lathe is not long enough to do the entire thing in one 'sweep'
 

Though this did allow me to use the more accurate simultaneous contracting 3 jawed holder
 

Once sized down with the rough paring tool I switched to a thinner tool that allows exact lines to be created
 

 
And showing the result as the cap section is reduced
 

So here is almost the completed bowsprit
 

For the little extra bits I found using a particular tweezer style useful
 

I could then hold my finger under the wood and run a file over the end to 'angle' those bits that needed angling
 

Some did not and just needed to be rectangular for these I followed the wise rule of start large and then reduce to fit. I tended to cut with a scalpel then tidy with a file.
 

 
Next up I tried the wolding. For this kit I am using black thread for the standing rigging though I might well switch to dark brown for my next model. Anyway I am also trying to avoid my heavy use of superglue and very simple half hitches. So I will be trying to use knots in preference to glue. This may or may not work and I think the jury is out currently though I will get a better impression when some of the blocks are added
 
I started by masking taping one end of my thread to a spare area then winding the thread around
 

 
I then masking taped a section close to the off cut bit (but not near the actual end as I would need to use that)
 

 
I then took the spare end and threaded it under the existing loops and around the top loose piece before moving back again
 

And rope bit done
 

 
 
 
Shuffling around made this tidier but the extra thickness of two ropes in one section did generate a bulge. I have placed this under the jib boom so it wont be that obvious but if I repeat this process on the masts then I may cut a small groove to contain the under thread to avoid this (and help keep things tight).
 
I then gathered the relevant parts (including painted card) for the bands
 

These were cut into strips and wrapped around. The close up makes things look worse than they actually look (and next time I will paint the sides of the strips before attaching. For this I have to paint the sides carefully post install which is harder and is the next job from here)
 

 
Anyway even I am tired now. Next up I have to tidy the wolding before starting on blocks for the jib boom and bowsprit.
 
IMG_3829.CR2

Congrats mate! Your rigging looks great- I'll need to tuck away your tips for that inevitable day when I rig something again!
 
Chad

Looks great despite the lighting issues mate; you can be justifiably happy with your results.
 
cheers
 
Pat

Complete at last. Now follows an unsuccessful attempt to find the best place to take a photo which sets her off nicely. But fails. 
 


 


 
I was pleased with the way that the hull and wood fittings sections went and thought most of my scratch and replacement choices both looked and worked well. This was not a surprise as after my last kit (Caldercraft Diana) I had specifically been unhappy with both of these and had then completed the Triton cross section and Chucks longboat in an attempt to improve basic wood working skill. Curiously though I had been happy with my rigging on Diana and it is something I enjoy doing a lot yet I was much less pleased with my rigging now. Probably due to the length of time since I last attempted to rig an entire ship. The worse bit if rigging for me was the shrouds. Looking back at my Diana the Shrouds are straight (still) and their primary weakness is that the ink has worked off (basically if there is any movement in the shrouds over time due to dusting etc then even sight motion will gradually de-ink). For this kit I used black thread and whether this made it worse or whether it was the relative size and distance they did not come out well. Something for me to consider in far  more detail when moving forward. 
 
The Rigging.
 
Since it’s been so long and it is likely to be a similar huge amount of time before I rig again I want to cover some of the lessons learnt concerning rigging to remind my future self of what to do. Now rigging, like many things, is an art and some people are very good at it. It is less important to an unknowledgeable observer as it is the impression of the multitude of ropes that counts rather than ‘ooo that one is seized beautifully’ but even so I want to try and move towards best practice from ‘just works’ 
 
So random notes (in no particular order) 
 
 
Add the shroud cleats to the shrouds BEFORE tying the ratlines and carrying out any other rigging. I attempted to add after I had starting rigging and it did not go well   
IF you superglue to secure a rope then ensure you put it under strain before supergluing. If you don’t then you will get a rope with a weird angle (I don’t do this any more but remembered it from last time)  You will accidentally punch a rope when tying something, so it is NOT POSSIBLE to keep ropes correctly tensioned. The solution here is to seize the highest (most easily accessible) section of the rope (usually the one on a yard) allowing it to be tightened later on in either direction. That way if something gets loose you can do something about it.  So the area on a live ship where you would tension the rigging (down on deck) is actually a locked area and tensioning is done where you can both easily reach it and where it can occur (allowing you do not glue both ends)  Order is important and not always the kit order. I think starting from rigging that bases itself close to the masts then move outwards (after the primary (not back) stays).   
Always drill block holes again and test the intended rope fits through prior to fitting on the mast/yards. You will regret it if you attach a block then find it has too small a hole for the rope. Especially if trying to do so from two inches away  
Like with gun carriage rigging I often found that it was easier to rig off model with the rope through all the relevant blocks and then attach to the model and then tighten as opposed to trying to rig onto the model directly.    
When making belaying pins it is better to have long shanks as it is easier to get purchase around them when rigging especially when other ropes are present. The shanks on the Bounty are tiny so I gave up and went for simple hitches in most cases.   
Before securing ropes try and tighten manually to see if another rope is in the way. Sometimes you add a rope think it looks okay and then tighten then when you see its actually competing with an unexpected different rope, so you have to undo and re-do.  there was something dodgy about the lifts and the way they were interacting with the shrouds. I suspect I made a big mistake somewhere so be careful of this next time.  
 
In the past I have secured the yards with a pin. This is all very well but A) Doing so prior to the shrouds going on can cause shroud issues so don’t pin until you can see the shrouds and secondly it can make securing the yards correctly difficult. I found I preferred not pinning and pulling the yard into place was the easiest approach.   
When cutting loose ends of threads always pull the loose end with tweezers first so you can see what you are cutting. Though I was much better at this this time around I still ended up cutting two-three actual ropes as opposed to the loose end I was aiming for   
When attaching blocks to ropes I found simple seizing was the easiest approach (not historical) and secured the block better. Basically wrap the thread around the block and hold close to the block with locking tweezers then a simple hitch with thin material at the block end then repeat further back. Slight drop of super glue on the securing material (not on the block holding rope!) and job done.   
Don’t forget that if you randomly tighten one rope that looks loose then you may be loosening a different rope elsewhere.    
Scale matters. My Snake and Diana are at the same scale as the Bounty but are larger ships so the rigging is (was) easier.  For this reason it looks like the Bounty rigging is even more simplified but equally there are a lot of ropes fitting in a smaller area.   
For me my next task is to build a couple of Goban (not ship modelling related but it will help hone skills with almost all of my machine tools) which should take a month or two to do correctly. After that I may re-furbish my Diana by fixing some broken rigging (and a mast ☹ ), re-inking the shrouds and generally trying to de-dust. That should take only a week to do. After that I am going to re-start my Amphion. Due to the lessons learnt above I will be upping the scale from 1:64 to 1:48. I have zero chance of getting a 1:64 scale frigate into the house so since it will be remaining in my workshop I might as well go for a 1:48. This will make some of the parts much easier to make and machine. It’s either that or drop it to 128 and lose loads of detail and perhaps go solid hull. I have a couple of months to decide. Anyway, thanks for reading and happy modelling.