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John Looking at photos of a number of rigged contemporary models, the vast majority have no sails but nearly all running rigging is in place. As with the clew lines for example, leech lines and bunt lines are knotted on the end that would attach to the sail if it were in place and start at the blocks on the spars then rove through the appropriate lead blocks and then to their belaying points. Sheets and tacks are rigged as well as lifts and more. How many lines "should" be rigged if no sails are included?? To each his own. Allan

Phil This is the downside to proper research. Sometimes it raises more questions than giving answers 😁

Bob, If you have not started rigging Endeavour, maybe consider forgetting the kit as it is probably not without mistakes and purchase a book that will give you accurate information such as Lee's Masting and Rigging. Used copies are available. Even Rigging Period Ship Models, while geared to one ship and without the details of Masting and Rigging, may be more accurate than the kit. Allan

Hi Michel, Sorry, but I have no experience nor have I ever researched Baltimore clipper schooners so cannot help too much. The sizes and ratios of flying jibs, jibs and stay sails are given in detail on pages 151-152 in Lees' Masting and Rigging for British ships, not American ships. If you don't mind using British figures, I recommend you get that book as it will help you here and hopefully for future builds for all the details regarding making and rigging masts, spars, etc. Advice on following the booklet from David Antscherl? Make one or two sails to test how things are working. He is a member here so if you run into problems and post questions in this forum I am sure you will get responses from him and/or others that have used his booklet as a guide. The only way to know what questions will arise is to make your first sail. My last project required a myriad of sail sizes but I started with a small frame to do a test on for one small sail. Once I felt comfortable with the process, including small changes that worked better for me, I made a large frame that allowed several sails to be made at a time. Allan

Bonjour Michel, ça va? Yes, what I call the plug is the insert, just a different name for the same thing. From James Lees' Masting and Rigging p.136, .....the usual width of a cloth (and a cloth, by the way,, is the sailmakers term for the canvas he uses) was 24 inches though in the 17th century a 25, 26 and 30 inch width was used. Also, an 18 inch cloth was often used for staysails and jibs in the nineteenth century. He also goes into great detail on the linings, bands, reef tackle pieces, buntline cloths and more. As to bolt ropes on square sails keep in mind there are multiple bolt ropes, not one continuous rope. On square sails the head rope is the smallest at 0.40 the size of the leech and foot ropes which were the same size. Lees points out that it would take volumes to list all the sizes of bolt ropes for all sails for all ships and eras. For model purposes he suggests ratios for the various sails to their respective stays on page 139. Leech and foot ropes for square sails: Main course - 0.33X the main stay Fore course - 0.33 X the fore stay All topsails 0.67 X their respective stays Topgallants -0.5 X their respective topsail leech and foot bolt rope size Sprit sail 0.6 the leech and foot bolt rope of the fore course Sprit topsail same as the fore topgallant There is a lot more, but these should help. For jibs and stay sails it is different. On four sided stay sails (Lees, page 152) the head rope is twice the size of the leech, foot and luff ropes. On three sided sails, the bolt ropes were the same on all three sides. The proportions are ratios to the main topmast stay from 0.2 to 0.4 depending on which sail. Again, Lees points out that these proportions are good for model makers but are not necessarily exactly to scale. Allan

Is the book good? Yes I think it is pretty good. Would I recommend it? Probably not to anyone that is not very interested in research and is a scratch builder. Fantastic models to be sure and I am sure I will be checking them out many times in the future as questions arise, but I would rather spend a day or two at Preble Hall or a museum with a similar collection and take several hundred more photos. I reference my current collection of photos from Preble Hall a lot and wish I was closer so I could visit again and take several hundred more photos. The write ups in the Kriegstein collections on each model are interesting, but I would rather have seen four or five more close up photos than learning about their provenance and such. Just my opinion but I think Franklin's book is much more useful to ship modelers. Allan

As it internally stropped with metal it is likely well into the 19th century. These were on all manner of vessels from fishing schooners to warships. Without knowing the dimensions of the block and the year, I don't think there is anyway of knowing what line rove through it let alone what size ship. Allan

I think there is a play on words regarding cavel versus kevel. According Lees' Masting and Rigging on page 170, they are two different things. Maybe there are other sources that do not agree. Anderson calls the cavel blocks small knights. Neither calls anything looking like the cavel block below a kevel. Anderson does show kevels but they look exactly like those labeled kevels below. Not a big deal regarding the name now, but for future, it may cause some confusion for those picturing one thing in their mind and others something else. Interestingly I cannot find the origin of the word cavel in the marine sense other than it is a variation of the word kevel. Another day, another quandary!! Allan

Marcus I usually just do an Amazon search for whatever I need, be it copper wire spools, sheet stock or ???? Thanks to Mr. Bezos, I pay less, get things fast, and have more time to be in the shop rather than burning gas and time going shopping. I am a fan of McMaster Carr and Grainger for some things such as drill bits, fasteners, and a few other things where I want to be sure I am getting jobber quality, not junk. Yes the copper should be cleaned once you finish your soldering. I like to file or steel wool off the excess solder, then just give it a soak in acetone to get off any residue. Pickling is also a favorite depending on the situation. I know it is not good to handle the parts with bare hands, but I find it is easy to dip my finger tips in acetone and wipe clean with a paper towel immediately before setting the parts in place. RARELY have I had a problem since doing it this way. Rubber finger cots are a great alternative and probably better for your skin though. Allan

EJ, How would the lines belay to the rail without pins? I am having a hard time envisioning a pin rail that has no pins but can still be used to belay a line. From looking at 17th century contemporary models the lines were belayed to cap rails, cleats, and timber heads for the most part. Below are bow photos showing two different styles of rigging at the bow and there is no indication of any kind of rail as in Michael's kit. Granted these are only a few examples so certainly not cast in stone. RC Anderson's Rigging of Ships in the Days of the Spritsail Topmast is a great source for more details and nowhere does in write about a rail like those in the kit. Below -- Coronation from the Kriegstein collection Note the fairleads at the gammoning Below is the bow area of a 3rd rate of 1650 at Preble Hall - Note there are no fairleads at the gammoning In the below photos there is a small set of bits just aft of the figure head on the Hampton Court (1678) in addition to the fairleads for other lines going to the timber heads. This photo is cropped rom the one on page 92 in Franklin's Navy Board Ship models. I have no idea if any of these are appropriate for SoS, but they may be closer to the way it was actually done compared to the kit version. Allan

All is beautiful, and I especially like seeing how you set up the stock to mill the beams. Now that I have finally gotten a milling machine, this is a task I am anxious to try using your method. Beats doing it manually by hand with chisels! Allan

Now I understand. Numbers 36 and 37 are not timberheads like those at the forecastle. These are definitely not extensions of the top timbers, but look more like a variation of what could be a cavel block. The drawing seems to show a hole in the cavel block, where as it would normally be a sheave arrangement closer to the deck for the line the pass through to the cleat next to it (if it is indeed a cavel block. ) As to the angle, I have no idea how they came up with this, but it may be correct based on some contemporary plans or models they found. I did some quick looking at photos of contemporary models in Franklin, The Kriegstein collection, and photos from Preble Hall and cannot find anything to confirm or dispute what they show on the plans. Allan

I use Ace and HD and others but I find better pricing on line and one or two day delivery most of the time.. Copper is great for deadeye chains as it can be blackened with LoS in situ. For me I prefer brass where the item has to be stiff such as a hook. Allan

Glad the plans have the right number of timberheads. I saw a photo of their model and only counted five, thus my comment. I may have missed one that is not viewable. Photo below. Not sure what you mean about leaning timber heads. I THINKG they should pretty much follow the line of the top timbers if it were a fully framed model. Hopefully some one will have a firm answer for you but perhaps the body plan may give you an idea of the line. Cheers Allan

Brian The actual timber heads could very well be extensions of top timbers so it would be more realistic for the holes in the cap rail to be enlarged. A sharp chisel should do the job very nicely. Not sure a file would fit in the holes. Either way, I doubt anyone will be able to tell if the fit is really good. Note the kit has five timberheads between the aft most and middle swivel gun posts, port and starboard on the forecastle. The contemporary drawing shows six. You can study the drawing to see if there are any other differences between the kit and the original drawing of the actual ship. The contemporary drawing is below, but if it is not clear you can download the high res drawing (43mb) found on the Wiki Commons site for free. The drawing is on the first page. There is another drawing of Comet, Terror, Granado, et al from 1741 that shows no timber heads on the forecastle. It is at https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/search/Granado 1742 but is low resolution. Allan

Nipper Welcome to MSW. Reading your post, a word of warning. You may wind up getting the total scratch building bug like many of us which brings a whole new world of potential subjects to your doorstep. 🤪 Again, welcome to the fray here at MSW (Please post an intro on the new members forum here at MSW.) Allan

Michel The insert is indeed a board. I used the same material that I used for the frame so the thickness matched. It does not have to be a perfect fit. A clearance all around of 2mm or so is fine. The purpose is to prevent the silkspan from sagging to the floor when it is first wetted for shrinking or when painted as it will sag again then tighten again. There are some alternative ideas on You Tube as well although I prefer the painting methods in the booklet. NB: - Use good quality tubed artist acrylic paints in any case.

I have never been thrilled with the look of treenails at scales smaller than 1:48, but after seeing your work, I am reconsidering this as my current project is 1:64. Sorry if I missed it if you already mentioned it, but what material are you using for the treenails? I cannot think of any wood that goes through the smallest holes in the Byrnes plate without problems other than bamboo, at least based on my own experience. Allan

Michel, OFF white is probably appropriate. Mix a LITTLE burnt umber and/or yellow with some white and keep track of the proportions as you mix until you find the color you want. There are no color photos of vessels from that far back so no one knows the color other than descriptions words that some may have found and can share with you. The seams just need to be slightly darker than the color of the sail. Look at the build log for the Boothbay schooner under scratch builds and you will see one way of making these, but it generally follows the book by David Antscherl. The sail making is near the bottom of the page. As a side note, according to the USS Constitution Museum, flax was used to make sails in the US Navy until well into the 19th century so that may help you research the color a little bit. Allan

Nice work Will, Have you tried making the chains and putting them in place with the deadeyes, then, blacken them with watered down LoS. Quick rinse with water afterwards and no residue flaking off. If you look at Ed Tosti's Naiad log build and/or the Young America build log, he goes into this method in some good detail. Allan

Welcome to MSW Bob! You have attached your post to a 7 1/2 year old string here. You may want to do two things. First, a common courtesy would be to introduce yourself on the New Member forum. Second, start a new post in the appropriate forum with your questions and post some photos to give a better understanding. Again, welcome to MSW!! Allan

Allan

When I ordered the book on Thursday Amazon claimed delivery would be tomorrow, Monday. It was not as they claimed!!! Darn!!! (The book showed up a day early and now my day is shot as I dig into the book. ) Happy happy Allan

Michel Absolutely get the booklet that Druxey mentions. It goes into all the details including proper paints to use to get the color you want. Added to the booklet which I used with success, I did change the method of making the seams to using paint markers that were slightly darker than the sail color once it was painted. You can trim the tip of the marker to the width of the seam which would be about 2" real world. I used Liquitex but there are others. Using the marker and a straight edge yielded great results, better for me personally than using a brush in my shaky hands. https://www.dickblick.com/products/liquitex-professional-paint-markers/ scroll down to a wide selection of colors. I am sure there are many more suppliers in Canada in addition to this one here in the States but this site will give you an idea of what is available if you care to try this method. Allan

Regardless of the wood species, as there are lines of what looks to be a body plan, you can make the hull from segments based on these lines. Alternatively you can go with a solid block as you mention and make card stock pieces from the body plan lines to check your fairing of the hull from stem to transom. Basswood may be OK as it is good for carving, but I find it prone to denting and scratching as it is soft compared to other readily available species, including poplar or maple which you can get at any local lumber supplier. Do you have a CAD program? Allan