allanyed

Welcome to MSW Mart!!!! It would be nice if you post a little about yourself in the new member forum. Allan

If you don't have the tools to make a case there are places that will make them for you. Some will make the box and you make the base. If you have a table saw great, if you don't, not a problem. Make the base board (lumber stores will cut to size for you) and use small strips of wood to form the grooves in which the box will sit. It is actually easier to do it this way. Set the box on the base board and glue the outboard strips in place..... perfect fit every time. Then remove the box and glue the inboard strips leaving the gap to match the thickness of the box walls. Do pay attention to have some kind of air holes as explained above by Bob. Tiny openings are best and/or fill the openings with something like plastic wool or other non-rusting material to keep out the beasts but will let the air in. Even a 1/8" hole will let the spiders in. https://www.shoppopdisplays.com/CS001/5-sided-clear-acrylic-box-custom-size.html?v=85&gclid=CjwKCAjwvuGJBhB1EiwACU1AiVb-wk0hbMZwPDjswKU-Eu7_9856ZCnqNCRk0SK6L6JIb1eth3m4bBoC3qgQAvD_BwE is just one supplier but I am sure you can find someone local out by you. Just make a base to go with it. A not-to-scale basic design that has worked for me over the years follows. I only show two of the four "grooves" for clarity. UV protection or not, it is best not leave the model where it is exposed to direct sun light. Allan Allan

Juhu Forgot to mention, the bell is also shown in the inboard profile forward drawing at that website as well. There are 22 drawings of her in the drawing gallery, including deck layouts at various periods from being a fisherman to being an Arctic explorer. https://www.loc.gov/resource/hhh.ma1719.sheet?st=gallery Allan

Check out the photos of the Ernestina (nee Effie M. Morrissey) at the Library of Congress website. This is at least one example of a Gloucester schooner with a bell as it shows in several photos, including https://www.loc.gov/resource/hhh.ma1719.photos/?sp=15 Allan

Great question John!! I have no clue but would love to see the possible answer(s) based on a contemporary source. From what I could find, the training tackle came into common use in the RN in the 18th century so would be appropriate for the Lady Nelson if that is the vessel you are working on, but for three and four pounders, I am not so sure there would be training tackle required. From an Admiralty order of 1734 they describe when the training tackle was to be used. In a nutshell they describe how only the leeward guns would require the training tackle when the guns were actually in use. IMHO there was no reason to have the training tackle in place when the guns were secured. Where and how they were stowed would be an interesting item. Maybe they kept the rope and blocks frapped, and hung on the bulwark along with the various tools for the guns. Allan

Phil, Thanks, I found black annealed in diameters down to .014" at McMaster Carr so there are lots of sizes available. BUT when you cut it, is the end black or steel color? If steel grey is the case how do you blacken it and otherwise prevent it from rusting after blackening? Thanks again for the tip. Allan

Frank (better than frantic) Welcome from a former merchant mariner (2nd Engineer) to MSW. Most of us former merchant guys here at MSW are old timers so it is fantastic to have young blood on board!!! Allan

Chuck, The liver of sulfur should be watered down a little and it will NOT stain the wood. Apply, then rinse with water with a brush. Do a search on Ed Tosti's build logs here at MSW for the Naiad and/or Young America. He teaches how in some detail. It works beautifully with copper, but not with brass in my experience. Allan

John, The running lines would be frapped as in the two photos below from Caruana's History of English Sea Ordinance pages 382 and 388. The first is a 1795 pattern carriage, redrawn from Congreve's Treatise on the Mounting of Sea Service Ordinance, and the second is redrawn from Dupin's Voyages in Great Britain (translated) There are some good photos of this practice on the net as well. Google "hms victory cannon" and click images and you can see some very clear photos. Allan

Thanks Dziadeczek, I thought that might be the case Laggard, Keep in mind your scale. 28 gage is too thin for 1:48. Assume an eye of 3/4" rod forming a 3" ID for example, this is about 26 gauge wire bent to a 1/16" ID eye. Huge eyes are often seen on kit models similar to the chubby belaying pins and take away from on an otherwise fine model. If your eyebolts are supposed to be bigger than 3" , the material gauge should be proportionally bigger in diameter. If you find brass to be too stiff, heat it until it is red and it will be as pliable as copper wire. To heat it, a propane torch (or a cheap propane cigar lighter) does the job. Stainless steel or steel wire are not necessary and are more difficult to bend and blacken. Copper eyes can be blackened in situ with thinned liver of sulfur and brass can be pre- blackened before being installed with a number of agents such as Birchwood Casey liquids. Allan

Dziadeczek What is CD glue? Maybe it's a typo, but if not, just curious about it. 😄 Laggard, I use tapered round nose pliers to form the eye bolts from brass wire or sometimes copper wire although copper tends to be too soft in some situations.

Ciao Gabriele, Welcome to MSW!!! Qual è la tua citta o paese in Italia? Per Goodwin in The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War the plates are about 48" X 15" and weigh 8.75 pounds for most of the hull and up to 32 pounds in the areas receiving the most wear given above. What thickness are you trying to use? If you go with an average weight/thickness it should be so thin at scale that it is thinner than paper so you can cut it with scissors. Note that at your scale, the 1/4" nails which were the size used according to Goodwin, will barely be visible and maybe best left off. If you do want to show them they should be indented as they are nailed, not sticking up like the head of a bolt as seen on some modern models. Have you looked at the various builds here at MSW that show how those builders did the coppering? Allan

Welcome to MSW Mark. With winter only days away up there in the frozen tundra (🤪) your timing is perfect to start your project. Hope to see your build log in the near future. Allan

Ubjs From your photo it looks like they used the same material for all of the printed parts so they are meant to be painted or otherwise colorized to a more appropriate color. The type of paint may depend on the material of these pieces, be it resin, ABS, or some other material. I would try to find out what material they used before priming and painting, but other members may know if there are universal coatings that work on any 3D printed material. Allan

While the below is not HMS Victory, it is a contemporary model of a British frigate and may be of some help. While contemporary, it has likely been re-rigged over the past couple hundred years, but hopefully the person doing the re-rigging was faithful to the original belaying points and methods. Allan

Shone I may be mistaken but I detect a hint of Nepalese in your screen name . DO NOT BE INTIMIDATED by anyone's build. This hobby of ours is first and foremost a fun endeavor. As suggested above, for a first scratch build perhaps a smaller project for a first time such as a ship's boat or smaller vessel such as a Swan Class sloop. There are great plans available and in the case of the Swan class, an excellent series of books, The Fully Framed Model, with step by step lessons and instructions. As with the Naiad books, the author of The Fully Framed Model is a member here and he would likely be checking and helping you from beginning to end if you start a build log and request if you run into a stumbling block. Brian, while Bitao's stove is incredible, the stove can be made from alternate materials and result in a credible job. I would emulate Bitao's stove, but if you are not yet ready for this, as is the case for most of us, take a look at the articles here on MSW as there is a simplified build of a stove in the Furniture and Fittings section of the Articles Data Base. It may be an acceptable alternative for some builders. Allan

Ras, This topic has not had an entry in four months so may not get fast or many responses. You might want to consider PMing Greg, who started this topic, for contact information. Allan

Ted, The following is from Lees' Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War. From the 1733 Establishment, the fore topsail yard braces on a first rate belayed to cleats on the bulwarks just aft of halfway between the fore and main masts. Once the gangways and skids came into use, this would not work. By 1742, the fore topsail yard braces were being belayed to the forecastle rails but not on the belfry itself. About 1805 the fore topsail yard braces were belayed at the main jeer bitt. Note that the location of the standing parts and blocks were in slightly different positions on the main stay for each period as well. Allan

Or a rubber band around the self closing tweezers. As to replacing two or three blocks, it would probably be easier to make your own. Good practice for future work 😀 Allan

Hi Jim, I see where Lees describes the brails on either side of the sail and he also states that the brails all went on both sides of the sail on page 109 for the lateen type sail, but I cannot find where he mentions anything about this for the spanker. He does go into some good detail on the peak, middle, throat and foot brails for the spanker on page 114. Hi Tom, On page 179 Lees gives belaying points for all of the spanker brails for a frigate of 1810 but I have no idea if this would be similar for Leopard. Could be that these are not appropriate for a 50 gun ship of 1776 just as Petersson's book may not be appropriate for every line as his book was based on one model of a 32 gun ship of 1785. Still, together, they may be of some good help. I checked Steel's Elements and Practice of Rigging and Seamanship, but he does not even mention the brails for the spanker that I could find. https://maritime.org/doc/steel/part7.htm#pg217 Allan

Steven, I looked at the collection. WELL DONE piece of work!!! Allan

Luigi, Where are you located? With experienced builders all over the world, MAYBE there is a member near you that can help. Even if there is not someone that you can meet with in person, a Zoom or Skype tutorial may be possible. Ciao Allan

Ted, I have never seen a contemporary instruction on how to tie a line to the rail, but maybe the close up below of lines tied to the rails will help. I doubt this would be appropriate by 1805 though what with belaying pins and timberheads available. Keep in mind even though this is a contemporary model at Preble Hall, it may have been re-rigged at some point although they are likely to be accurate. I looked at a bunch of photos in John Franklin's book and Lees' but cannot find very clear closeups that show how these were actually tied. That they were tied in some fashion to the rails I have no doubt, but as to the method, I have not been able to find anything so far. Regarding the weight of the fore yard, I am coming up with something much less. Assuming a length of 89' 1" and diameter20 7/8" (Lees' Masting and Rigging page 198 specifically for Victory) and a taper that left an AVERAGE diameter of about 16 inches for the entire yard, a weight of about 45 pounds per cubic foot for dry oak (https://www.oocities.org/steamgen/woodweights.pdf) (Fir looks to be lighter) I come up with 16X3.14X1069= 53,706 cubic inches. 53,706/1728 cubic inches per cubic foot =31 cubic feet. 31X45=1,395 pounds. I am no math teacher so my numbers may be bogus but there is a big difference with our numbers. From Lees's Masting and Rigging page 64 ---- The fore yard had two sets of jeer blocks. For each set, the upper block was treble sheaved and hung from the mast head with a long strop. The yard had two double blocks, (one to go with each treble block) strapped to it at the slings. I cannot find any information where and how the line was stowed, other than contemporary models that show the lines in large coils at the foot of the bitts. Again, hope this helps. Allan

Olha, Love your work and lessons!! Taking a wild guess here but are you related to Kroum? I figured that might be the case as he is with UConn and a marine archeologist. I still reference his thesis from A&M once in a while!! Allan

Stunning workmanship and very nice photography. Allan