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Don, The limber strakes are a bit complex in that they are tapered and twist quite a bit fore and aft so they can lay on the first futtocks and floors even at the ends. I have never seen a lot of detail on these except in volume I of TFFM by David Antscherl which is very clear with words and drawings on how these looked and how to make them. This includes the length of the taper at the fore and aft ends, where the rebates and limber boards end on the limber strakes, and much more. Perhaps others have seen this kind of detail elsewhere that would be of help as well. Look up inboard planking expansion drawings as well. The bottom two strakes should be the limber strakes. You can find some on the NMM collections site. There may be some on the Wikimedia site as well https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Ship_plans_of_the_Royal_Museums_Greenwich

Welcome aboard E Looks like you may be ready for a scratch build!!! Thanks for sharing the photos.

D, This can be confusing but in your photos the pieces with single holes really don't look much like blocks at all. The shape is not accurate and there is a hole that appears to be way over scale and in the wrong place. There is a slot formed when the shell pieces and crown and tail pieces are assembled, not holes. The sheave is assembled within this box. Google wooden block assembly and there are a lot of photos of blocks and drawings. The following may help in the meantime. Note the shape over all compared to what the kit has provided. You can make your own that will be much better or purchase some beautiful blocks from Syren Ship Models.

Thanks Steven, Try this https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/trafalgar-squared/id1563155730 There is a trailer, then episode 1.

Welcome to MSW Drew. As mentioned in detail above, there are a lot of build logs on Bounty, probably more than any other single ship, here at MSW. There are probably hours of study information that should help you along. As to rigging, you may want to look at the rigging forum here as much of what has been posted applies to any ship, including Bounty. There are a lot of does and don'ts that will help you avoid the many mistakes that most of us have made when we were rookies in this hobby of ours. Several rigging books of note are discussed as well. You may want to consider adding one or two of these to your book shelf as they will give you a lot of help on this project as well as future projects.

Steven, as a Nelson fan, have you signed on to Adam Preston's Trafalgar site and pod cast? He has been working with a number of folks in the television industry to get a series made about Trafalgar, with a major side story surrounding the relationship of Nelson and Emma Hamilton. We have been communicating and he is in the process of getting folks to sign on to his podcasts and website in general which will give him the ammunition he needs to get the series off the ground. A little background is in the following email I received from Adam yesterday. Hi Allan Thanks for your message - it really is great to have your support on this. What I am attempting is certainly not easy and every bit of help is appreciated. I quite understand that podcasts can be a bit of a turn off as there are now so many - my podcast is just one of the ways that I am getting the word out about “Trafalgar". I am also hoping to monetise the podcast when the audience gets above 2000. But perhaps a bit more detail as you suggested would be helpful at this stage. “Trafalgar" was originally commissioned by a company called Working Title Television which was the TV arm of the well known Working Title Films. Because of their support I was able to spend three years researching and working on the screenplays but they were only going for a BBC series and when the BBC turned it down - more on political grounds than anything - they did not pursue the project and they are no longer trading. Because it was such a huge opportunity I put my life and soul into the work and, in the process, became very much a Georgian navy enthusiast. I now work occasionally for The Trafalgar Way and have given talks to adults and children all over the UK. The quality of the scripts is definitely very high. I gave them to Hugh Bonneville <star of the TV series and movie, Downton Abbey> due to a chance encounter and expected not to hear from him again. Instead he called me up in a state of some excitement and told me he wanted to help me get the project off the ground - because the writing was 'first class'. But when he approached broadcasters they said that they did not believe that there was an audience for this kind off thing and that Nelson was a figure who was not known outside of the UK. I do not believe this is true - and I also believe that this is one of the greatest true stories in history - the scandalous romance with Emma and Nelsons inexorable climb to the limits of heroism make for absolutely gripping drama when told authentically. You do not need to know, and be a fan of, Lord Nelson, to be captivated by such a story. So I have set myself the challenge of proving that there is an audience. A very large subscriber list can not only do that but can also be active in helping to get the project up onto the next stage. If I reach 10,000 then inevitably such a large base will provide opportunities to then get a new development/production company involved, because they will see that the interest is there. A large subscriber list can also help with feedback, spreading the word, networking, press, and generally in exponentially building the potential audience and a general sense of excitement - a buzz - about the project. Needless to say I am very passionate about making “Trafalgar” - a passion which I am sure many model makers experience when creating replicas of the beautiful ships of the Trafalgar era. I hope that answers your query. Feel free to use any of the above info. I would also be happy to create a short video of 4 or 5 minutes in which I would explain what I was trying to do if you think that might help. For now the best thing that people can do is subscribe and share this website address http://trafalgar.tv And I am always looking for new ways to get the word out. Thanks again Adam I am posting about this project in a few places here at MSW as I am sure there are a lot of members that would love to see this project come to fruition, myself included. I have no involvement in the project other than trying to give Adam some help in getting folks to sign on as an indication of interest in seeing this project happen.

Thanks Mark and Pat. Great information!!

There are actually sometimes more sheaves than I show on that drawing, depends on the ship. Some are for sheets, some are for braces, some are for tacks. I don't know if it is appropriate to use a 16 gun Swan Class (Vulture) as an example for Discovery. It MAY be right, but maybe not. Hopefully others here will know.

Hard to tell without a drawing. Sounds like the forward one is for the main sail tack which would first pass through a chesstree on the hull. You would really do yourself a huge favor by getting a copy of Lees' Masting and Rigging or other time period appropriate book as these will help make sense of the many lines and associated items like the through-hull sheaves, fore tack blocks on the bumpkins, chesstrees, etc. I really am not one to spend other people's money, but when it comes to rigging, at least one, good, time-appropriate, source is essential and worth the investment.

Don, Are you going to do other internal planking? If you are you should consider putting on a few ribbands on the hull to hold the frames true while adding the internal planking which would usually start with the limber strakes then the thickstuff, then the lower deck clamp and so forth. When you get to where there are two or three more strakes of thick stuff before you get to the lower deck clamp, CAREFULLY mark the run of the strakes of clamps. Keep in mind that in your time frame, the deck clamps were likely mortised to allow the deck beams to be let down into the top of the clamp about one inch. As these will likely not be seen unless you are leaving openings so an observer can see down into the model. If you forgo letting the beams down into the clamps, it is not a horrible thing to skip this, but 0.02" (1") would be noticeable if someone looked for this. If you are only going to add the strakes of clamps, adding the ribbands is still a good idea so the clamps are not twisting and flexing the frames when being installed. The clamps (and other internal planking) should be pre-bent or soaked thoroughly then temporarily installed until dry, then removed and then glued in place, one strake at a time as they will swell while still wet. Id secured while wet there will be gaps between strakes.

Thanks Pat, Carvings are being done as carvings, and painted decorative work is what I was not happy with. Decal paper has never worked for me so I went with paper, and now archival paper types as they appear to have a history of good longevity. Painting on paper is not new, it was really a study I wanted to do in what kind of paper worked best for painting the freizes and panels. I drew the items, in this case the fleur de lis with the CAD program as a guide for painting, but the detail was so small and difficult for me even with 4X magnifier and nearly single hair brush I thought just using the CAD drawing would be worth a try and it is far neater in appearance. Using a top coat that is compatible with the ink is another matter . Varnish, poly, shellac or ???? Any experiences you or others have would be very welcome. I do have some paper/scroll work decorations on a model that I built in 2006 that was coated with clear non-glossy polyurethane and it has shown no signs of degradation at all so lacking other experiences I would go this route. Thanks again.

Mark, I bought the samples of several types of archival paper and printed and painted on each of them. The two best results were printed rather than printed and painted or just painted. I drew the fleur-de-lis on TurboCad with various colors then printed on each of the six different archival paper samples. The samples that were painted on top of the printed samples were not nearly as neat in the details even using a super small high quality brush. Of course shaky old hands may have had a part in that. The thinnest paper samples would have been good when gluing to the wood, but the printing was not nearly as crisp. I copied in place to double up on the color saturation but saw no difference on any of the samples. Some of the paper samples were pH neutral, and these were very thin but the color was not as crisp. Painting on these was no problem, but for these tiny pics, they did not look as good as the printed as mentioned above. For other items I will likely paint on the thinner paper, or at least give it a try. Two best results are below showing the single layer print on the paper identified. Each blue rectangle is 5/16" wide by 3/8" high.

I was not happy with some of the painted items for the stern, specifically the fleur-de-lis and did a little experimenting. Rather than paint directly on the wood I bought several types of archival paper and printed and painted samples. The two best results were printed rather than painted. I drew the fleur-de-lis on TurboCad with various colors then printed on each of six different archival paper samples. The samples that were painted on top of the printed samples were not nearly as neat in the details even using a super small high quality brush. Of course shaky old hands may have had a part in that. The thinnest paper samples would have been good when gluing to the wood, but the printing was not nearly as crisp. I copied in place to double up on the color saturation but saw no difference on any of the samples. Two best results are below showing the single layer print on the paper identified. Each blue rectangle is 5/16" wide by 3/8" high.

This was posted in the Nautical/Naval History forum but is not being seen by many so I hope it is not wrong to post it here as well. The gentleman doing the podcasts and gaining some traction on having a TV series produced about Nelson would love to see our membership sign on. I received the following email from Adam Preston and as you can see, this could turn into a wonderful series that most of us would probably want to watch. Also note his interest in our hobby. Hugh Bonneville of Downton Abby fame is promoting the Trafalgar series as well. Hope he plays Nelson!! Dear Allan Thank you for getting in touch - and for your offer to help with the project ‘Trafalgar’. My current target is to get 10,000 sign ups at www.trafalgar.tv because that is the kind of number that will get broadcast executives sitting upright. I am now at 1050 so I have a way to go. To help spread the word I have created a podcast which I launched on the weekend. You can subscribe here https://shows.acast.com/trafalgar-squared please share this with anyone you know who is interested in this subject area. The podcast has already had 500 downloads from all over the world (as many in North America as the UK) I am interested in the documents you mention Allan - I am a great devourer of this kind of stuff - do you have them as a PDF or something that can be mailed? I am hoping to one day do a podcast episode about the world of model ship making and am slowly gathering info on that. Am I right in thinking this is an area of expertise for you? With best wishes Adam

Marcus, You should be pleased with a draw plate but do not go cheap. One of the best is from Jim Byrnes and is $25. There are Chinese ones for half the price and they are worth less than half the price. As is normal, you get what you pay for. I am sure there are other good quality ones out there and someone may give some info on them for you to check out. Bamboo skewers are cheap and available everywhere. Just split them as many times as you can with a sharp blade until the strips will fit in the largest hole on the plate and then go from there. As you have not done this before, one common mistake is drawing the piece in the wrong direction. Push through the flat side of the plate and draw/pull out the other side.

We had something very similar in the US in the 20th century. We called it the draft, but it was pretty much the same thing sans the kidnapping part.

TNWNHM Welcome aboard. Hope you can give an easier moniker to address you 😀 Your photos show that one does not require a full blown shop of tools and huge workspace to build a great looking ship model. They are of course preferable, but not at all are they a must.

Marcus, assuming the inside diameter is .65mm, the size is about right for treenails in a hull for 1:48 scale. For smaller scales it is oversized. You probably need something like a 21 gage needle like those made by Becton Dickinson and others. They go down to much smaller diameter as well. Have you tried making treenails with a draw plate? Bamboo treenails are incredibly strong and easy to make with a good draw plate such as the one from Jim Byrnes. With a typical hull having upwards of 10,000 treenails, making them with a hypodermic needle is a task most would not want to try. If your scale is 3/16=1 inch or smaller, treenails will ruin the look and probably be better left off. Many otherwise beautiful planking jobs on the hull and decks have been ruined with oversized treenails. There are a number of posts on making these using different methods and different materials from fishing line to wire to different wood species.

Victor, Welcome to this motley crew of ours!!! Your wife is also a lucky one in that you have a good hobby to keep you out of her space with retirement coming to you. This is an issue with retirement for some folks I know. If I am in the house too long, I'll hear a comment from the admiral about maybe needing to glue a piece of wood in the shop or some such and assuring me that there is no need to rush back into the house. You now have thousands of new friends that will help you on your journey, especially if it is to the dark side, (a fully framed scratch build) Your previous work is wonderful. Hope you kept a few scalpel handles and blades, suture scissors, hemostats and the like. They all will be handy.

Don, You can also study Druxey's build log on a boat that should be of a lot of help to you. It is the 28 foot cutter in the scratch build forum 1851-1900. As to room and space, this was specified in boat contracts. An example of a portion of a contract for two 23 foot yawls follows. Spelling, punctuation and grammar are as found in the original handwritten contract. Contracted this 24th July 90 with the Honoble Thomas Willshaw, Esqre one of the Principall Officers & Commrs of their Majties Navy, for & behalf of their Majties, by me Robert Smith of Langstone Shipwrts and doe hereby oblidge myselfe to build & deliver into their Majties Stores at Portsth: free of all charge by the latter and on Augst next ensueing the two Yawles undermentioned of the Dimensions and Scantlings & each fitted with the particulars folling (viz) Long Broad Deepe Yawles of 23ft: ----- 5ft: 7:ins ------ 2ft: 5ins ------- Two Railes of the upper strakes to be made out of the wholewood up and downe Gunnels ............................................................ Keelson 6: ins. broade of 1½ inch planks, timbers of 1½ inch wth 13 ins Room and Space, & 10 inch Scarphs, ..................................................

Michael, With 40K members here at MSW, we can make the TV series happen by joining the Trafalgar Squared group and giving Adam ammunition to get the producers to invest in this series. I would LOVE to see this turn into a high quality television series and hopefully Hugh Bonneville (anyone that watched Downton Abbey will know him) will play a major role as he is apparently on board with this project.

Thank you for posting this. Are you any relation to Kroum Batchvarov, professor of Maritime Archaeology at UConn? Thanks again.

There were several types of Establishments from the British Admiralty including scantlings for each rate of ship, armament, and boats. Probably others as well. These were all revised over time so you need to use ones appropriate to the vessel in which you would be studying. Cheers

Further to the above, I emailed back and forth with Adam Preston who is leading the project. He wrote the following: Dear Allan Thank you for getting in touch - and for your offer to help with the project ‘Trafalgar’. My current target is to get 10,000 sign ups at www.trafalgar.tv because that is the kind of number that will get broadcast executives sitting upright. I am now at 1050 so I have a way to go. To help spread the word I have created a podcast which I launched on the weekend. You can subscribe here https://shows.acast.com/trafalgar-squared please share this with anyone you know who is interested in this subject area. The podcast has already had 500 downloads from all over the world (as many in North America as the UK) I am interested in the documents you mention Allan - I am a great devourer of this kind of stuff - do you have them as a PDF or something that can be mailed? I am hoping to one day do a podcast episode about the world of model ship making and am slowly gathering info on that. Am I right in thinking this is an area of expertise for you? With best wishes Adam https://www.trafalgar.tv https://shows.acast.com/trafalgar-squared https://www.patreon.com/adampreston?fan_landing=true Any ideas on how we can the word out to our 40,000 members to reach out to Adam and the project?

Don, Going with the launch, cutter, and yawl mentioned by Vancouver, the actual lengths for the boats for a survey ship are probably anyone's guess. Looking at 6th rate Navy fighting ships in your time frame, they would have carried five boats, but if you only go with three for a 99 foot survey ship, fewer boats may be correct. The Establishment called for a 21 foot launch, 22 foot pinnace, 18 foot cutter and two 24 foot cutters. Lacking better contemporary information, and considering only three boats, maybe consider a 21 to 24 foot foot launch, 18 to 25 foot cutter, and a 16 or 18 foot yawl. All scantlings for all of these sizes and types are on pages 58-61 in May's The Boats of Man of War. I think if you go with boats of similar size you cannot be faulted for your choices. Search the Collections site of RMG for drawings that fit the time of Discovery. One example of many yawl drawings is https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/86917.html Again, for accurate dimensional information on about every part from keel to thwarts of these boats can be found in May's book which is probably the best book out there concerning English ships' boats. (There are used copies on Amazon for $11.) Unless a boat was hung from stern davits, I don't think they would have ever sat athwartships.