allanyed
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Everything posted by allanyed
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John, Take a look at the June 1 post in the Charles Galley build log in scratch builds 1501-1750. There are also detailed descriptions in Frolich's The Art of Ship Modeling. One of the keys is to make the gratings close to the size you want, then make the coamings and head ledges to fit around the grating to assure a tight fight and not have to worry about open holes next to the head ledges or coamings. Allan -
IR3, your workmanship is spectacular and to make it better, she will have the gear to be a working piece. We live on a small lake and I have thought about a small RC boat project but the gators here get to well over 10 feet and if one of them happened by while I was at play with the boat, it might think this an easy meal, both the boat or me, so I will stick with static models for now. The photo on the right side of the equation below was taken on our community golf course. Fun times!! Allan
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Bonjour Alex!!! Welcome aboard. I love that you completed your first scratch build and have learned a lot and also realize there is more to learn. A warning for you...... for most of us, there is ALWAYS something new to learn which is a great thing. A good day is when I see something new here at MSW that will help me on my projects. Allan
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I am enjoying your build log, thank you very much for posting the photos. Down the road, maybe consider copper instead of brass where possible and you can blacken in situ with liver of sulfur without discoloring the wood. Copper wire can also be used in lieu of nails and a head formed with a cup punch. Most punch diameters such as from Brownell are over-scale for our models, but the tip can be reduced in diameter on a lathe to whatever diameter is required. Allan
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ancre La Belle 1684 by Oliver1973 - 1/36
allanyed replied to Oliver1973's topic in - Build logs for subjects built 1501 - 1750
Oliver, you should be very proud of your work!!! It is very nice seeing such tight fits and attention to detail. I know this takes an inordinate amount of time to do it right, but it is so evident in your build that you took the time to do so. Allan -
We all do Jim 😁. Several clubs are asking their members to sign on and Zoom meetings are being held with Adam and other groups to generate the signatures that are needed. Tell your friends, pass the word. If even 100 people get 2 others to sign on and then those two each do the same and so forth, it should not take too long to get the 10,000 signups needed to make this happen.
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Welcome to MSW Bo, The best paints in my own experience are tubed artist acrylics. I would also consider an over spray of a matte finish UV protecting urethane or similar top coat. Perhaps the Occre supplied paints are top quality artist acrylics as well but they may be like the cheap bottled acrylics. I have used those bottled paints in the past and they seemed to be OK at the time, but when I went to good quality tubed artist acrylics I learned the bottled stuff is not nearly as good. As usual, lower price, lower quality. Allan
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Ulises, I suspect Piet is correct. Also, which version, 1637 (beam 46'6"; keel 127') 1660 (beam 47' 6"; keel 127') or 1685, (beam 48'4"; length on the gun deck -not the keel- 167' 9") Assume the length of her gundeck was 51.13 meters after her rebuild in 1683. (51.13)X1000/1100 = scale of 46.48. Both kits mention the ship being originally built in 1637 but neither states which version they are supposedly replicating in the kit. If you look at the contemporary drawing held at RMG (Sovereign of the Seas (1637) (ZAZ0047) the length from the aft of the taffrail to the tip of the figure head is 2,595" If this length was 1100mm, the scale would be 1:60. Based on this, I think both kits are probably using the sprit and aft tip of the mizzen yard which of course varied with how it was set. If you can find the maximum beam of the hull of model, you can figure out the real scale of the model more easily. Allan
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No worries, there are a lot of kits that are loaded with mistakes. Oversized belaying pins and unrealistic looking gratings and copper plating on the hull seem to be the most common items that stand out in a not so good way. Thankfully there are some excellent kits on the market now thanks to several designers with a thorough knowledge of how the ships actually looked so we all can benefit. Allan
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O.N. She is lovely, very neat and clean work throughout. I realize you were relegated to using what the kit offers, but I would like to know if it provided the parrels for the cross jack yard on the mizzen. The reason I ask, is that on English ships the cross jack had rope slings until the mid 19th century, then chain slings, but never did they have parrels. Thanks Allan
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Stitching sails with sewing machine
allanyed replied to Jorge Hedges's topic in Masting, rigging and sails
Ted, Thanks for the reply and photos. The reef point method is pretty much the method I use as well. I do wet the points with matte medium then pull to straighten them while it dries which takes a few minutes. Well done! Allan -
Minimum plank length
allanyed replied to Don Case's topic in Building, Framing, Planking and plating a ships hull and deck
Ted, What you say makes sense, but actually short pieces were indeed in the bow and stern at times. On the Squirrel, there were five ceiling strakes with the forward most planks between 6' 3" and 11' 0". There were also seven strakes of the outboard planking where the forward most pieces were from 7' 6" to 11' 0" long. These go from the strake just above the garboard up to even with forecastle. Allan -
Minimum plank length
allanyed replied to Don Case's topic in Building, Framing, Planking and plating a ships hull and deck
Don, I don't know if it is a good idea to use house roofing rules for building a ship. 2X8 roof trusses are typically about 1.6 inches thick where as frames are sided in the 10 to 12 inch range, sometimes more. Roof trusses are typically on 16 inch centers if I remember correctly so they are 14.4 inches asunder, but there is only about an inch or two between frames. Even for deck planking, the ledges are no more than 9 inches asunder. Plywood was first patented before Discovery was built but I doubt it was used for her planking. For a clearer drawing of Squirrel or some others you can purchase a high res image from NMM. If you are interested in a high res printed version of the planking expansion for Squirrel from NMM, PM me as I no longer have need of my printed set of Squirrel drawings. The drawing has a scaled rule at the bottom and the station lines are there as well. Every plank inboard and outboard has the plank length written on it. If you study the framing plan and compare it with the planking expansion drawing you can determine how many frames each plank crosses. I just took a look at the plans and it only took a few seconds to determine how many frames the shortest pieces crossed. Allan -
Lawn, A very warm welcome to MSW. If you have never built a model ship before, you may want to consider something less complex than a rated ship for your first project. With hundreds of running rigging lines it is difficult to just rig them and fix them in place let alone rig them so they are working tackle. Just getting to belay, release and re-belay one or two lines would be cumbersome at best. Still, I am sure everyone here wishes you good fortune. I really hope this works as it will be a very interesting journey for us to follow. Allan
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Stitching sails with sewing machine
allanyed replied to Jorge Hedges's topic in Masting, rigging and sails
Thank you for posting this. I did a quick look at lawn cloth (100% cotton) on line and it is a woven fabric which usually is terrible for model ship sails as they are so out of scale. But, yours look really good. Your seams and panels are right on scale. What size thread did you use for the points? They look to be about the same as the bolt rope but it may be the photo. Do you happen to know the thread count of the fabric? Thanks again for posting this. Allan -
I did find what looks like a small poop on the St. Albans, 1687 and what looks definitely like a poop on the contemporary model of Mourdant 1671 in Endsor's Master Shipwright's Secrets, but all the others he shows are as you describe Druxey, a small hutch-like unit or with nothing at all. Endsor does point out that the model of the Mourdant is not without mistakes. As an example he compares the location of the forward channel wales, which is not normal on the model, and three separate drawings by Van De Velde showing them positioned as was normal at that time. He mentions that it is highly unlikely that VdV would have made the same mistake three times even given the caveat that VdV was not always perfect in his depictions. Allan
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Excellent point Bruce and this could very well be the case. Drawings by Van de Velde do not show a poop and photos of similar vessels show a mix, some with, some without. The clearance from the decks to the overheads are all about 5 feet or a bit more elsewhere. Thanks!!!
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Looking at original drawing of two ships that were to be built about 1678 following the Charles Galley, the poop looks to be very short. It is about 12" shorter than that of other ships of the era found in Richard Endsor's books and other sources I have checked. This includes his scaled painting of the Charles Galley which has the top of the poop at about 54". The following shows the QD and poop lines in red. When scaled the height of the poop bulkhead about 42-43" high. The rounding of the top of poop is not shown so if this is the outboard height and rounding is added, the height would still be only about 50" at the center line as the rounding of the top of the poop for this size vessel was about 8" to 9". Has anyone seen such a short poop or have I missed something? (Note: the red lines on the drawing did not show up well when I loaded it here so I traced over them in red so they would show better.) TIA Allan
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Longridge's book is great and extremely useful for the late 18th and even into the early 19th century. This was the second book to go into my modeling library going back to the '70s and I still reference it at times today when appropriate. But, Tom's focus is 17th century so maybe not so useful as others that have been listed. Scantlings for the ship itself as well as the masting and rigging were quite different in the 17th century compared to the time of Victory Allan
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Johnny The thread count of the full sized material itself would be about 28 to 30 per inch full scale depending on the weight of the cloth. For a scale of 1:48, that would be about 1,400 per inch. I don't think there is any cloth that has an actual count that high which is why cloth sails never look right on scales smaller than 1:12. Also, the panels were about 2 feet wide, (1/2" at 1:48) with a 2" overlap so it is not possible to have sewn seams that look realistic at our most often used scales. The following shows details for various weights of doek (duck) cloth. Linen (flax) duck was the most likely sail material until cotton replaced it in the 19th century so the various charts should be apropos in most cases even though it was written in 1924. https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/nbstechnologic/nbstechnologicpaperT264.pdf TT, do give the use of nonwoven material like silk span a try on your next project. You will be pleased with how good they look compared cloth. When it comes to rigging, kits vary and there are sometimes errors such as the example we used concerning shoulder blocks in the wrong place even though, in your model, there would be no shoulder blocks on the lifts by the time Beagle was built. Braces never had shoulder blocks so maybe you can sand off the shoulder rather than re-rig the entire line with the correct style block 🙃 Allan
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Planking options
allanyed replied to Don Case's topic in Building, Framing, Planking and plating a ships hull and deck
Hi Don She was the HMS Squirrel, (24) 1785. RMG notes that the lines for this drawing are for the starboard side and were taken off in 1811, a year before she was broken up, so this was the planking as it actually existed. The port side should be the same. The drawing is signed by John Ancell, assistant to the Master Shipwright, Plymouth. As to why the "HMS" is not needed in the search box, perhaps someone at RMG can answer that for you. It never dawned on me to use the HMS when doing searches over the years so I guess I just lucked out. Allan -
Planking options
allanyed replied to Don Case's topic in Building, Framing, Planking and plating a ships hull and deck
https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections Then click on Collections in the top bar of choices. Then type Squirrel in the search box and all her drawings come up. Scroll to box number 8 and the planking expansion should come up. Allan -
Treenail holes
allanyed replied to Don Case's topic in Building, Framing, Planking and plating a ships hull and deck
Totally agree Bob. I believe the ends were split and wedged thus more reason to caulk the ends. Allan -
Planking options
allanyed replied to Don Case's topic in Building, Framing, Planking and plating a ships hull and deck
Don, I think it would help if you study a planking expansion drawing such as for the Squirrel on the NMM site. The narrowest part should not be much smaller than half the widest part of the same strake on the inboard planking. For Squirrel the smallest is about 40% the width of the widest part of the strake. For the outboard strakes, the narrowest part is closer to 60% the width of the widest part of the same strake at its most narrow part at the forward end of the strakes. The expansion drawings show both inboard and outboard planking. Allan -
TechT Lots of things, but the first thing that looks odd is that there is a shoulder block coming off the yard arm with a pendant and the line appears to run aft. Shoulder blocks were used at the end of the yard arms for the lifts which ran inboard and up to a block at the cap then down, not aft and there was no pendant Actually shoulder blocks were not used after 1805 (Lees, page 69) I would strongly urge you to compare actual rigging practice with what the kits suggest as the kits are not always correct. Lees' Masting and Rigging is probably the best book (IMHO) to get as it covers 1625-1860 in great detail. There are others that are quite good, but if you were to only have one book and want to cover a wide range of years, this book is the go-to for many model builders for British ships of war. You might want to also consider getting some information on making sails that are to-scale. Sewn cloth sails are impossible to make to scale with sewing at scales smaller than about 1:12 or maybe 1:24. David Antscherl's booklet on making sails is a great source as are some very good videos on making model ship sales on You Tube The booklet is still available from Seawatch Books for $8. Hope this will be of some help to you on future projects. Allan
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