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Bob Regarding caulking, the following is from the contract for HMS Echo (16), 1782 ......... All Treenails to be dry seasoned, clear of Sap, and converted from Timber of the growth of Sussex, or equal in Goodness, therefore, to be well mooted, not overhauled with an Axe in driving, and all to be caulked .......... The same wording is found in the contracts for Elephant (74) 1781, Curacoa 36, 1809 and Astraea 36, 1810. I could not find any reference to how "treenayles" were to be set up in any of the 17th century contracts I have in my files. Yep, another spelling of the same item I found in the contract for the HMS James Galley, 1686. Allan

Welcome back to the fold Hank. Looking forward to a your build!!! Allan

Just a general question. The name appears to be a carved plaque. The English did not have any name on the stern except for a short period in the late 18ty century, and then they were painted, never carved. What was the norm for French vessels? Thanks Allan

Ab, Your step by step carving photos are great. I love my micro chisels, but prefer to start with carving burrs as you show, then get the tiny details with the chisels. I FINALLY purchased a mill and have seen so much on your build where it can be used. Thanks for sharing. Allan

Thanks Druxey! I will definitely give that a try. As to the yawing, you are absolutely correct. Slow and easy seems to be the problem, at least for me. I found that if I gave a very firm single stroke without hesitating, it works better. In making the long pieces from which the gratings will be made, I had two that yawed by the third groove but on the next two piece when I went with the firmer push-through they worked out. Allan

I started making gratings, coamings, and head ledges. I have been using the method describe by Bernard Frolich in The Art of Ship Modeling on pages 117-119 for a number of years. In order to avoid open holes on the edges the gratings are made first and then trimmed as close as possible to the desired size yet leaving a sold line of wood all around. Then the coaming pieces and head ledges are cut to fit around the gratings. First, the basic slab of wood (castello in this case) is cut to allow an extra row or more of pieces in the athwartships direction. The thickness is 1/16" or more than what the final grating will be. To make the slots, I used a fine tooth blade that has a 0.04 kerf (2.5" at 1:64 scale) The blade is raised to about 0.03 deep. Note that there is a 0.04 wide by 0.02 deep guide glued to the cutting board. You can just see the blade protruding through the board. The space between the guide and blade is 0.04" Next, the ends are carefully squared so they can be passed over the saw blade 90 degrees to the first cut when the first of the deep cut passes are made and the piece is held against the guide. This is critical as all following passes will be parallel to the first of the second pass cuts The blade is then raised and the cross cuts are made at 0.07" deep. Strips for the slats are then cut over sized and then thickness sanded to 0.03" X 0.04" wide. Once sized they are glued in the shallow rows of slots. After the glue has cured the blank is run through a thickness sander until the excess wood is gone and the holes are open. Small pieces of shavings sometime need to be cleaned out of some of the holes with a needle are micro chisel. Note that there is sometime breakage on the outer rows which is why I make at least two extra rows on the blanks. Once assembled the large finished blanks are cut into properly sized pieces. The coamings and head ledges are then fit to the gratings. Those in the photo are loose fit at this point. Once glued in place they will be lightly sanded on top so the grating matches the coaming and head ledges. Note that the solid running pieces go fore and aft allowing the grating to be bent slightly to give a rounding to match the rounding of the head ledges. Allan

Hope so Greg! Email me and let me know when you are down here and can meet for lunch. Allan

Glenn, your rope coils look terrific. You and others who have not seen this in the rigging forum here at MSW may find the following video of interest regarding coiling around a belaying pin. Allan

Glad to see her back at her home port!! Beautiful work as we have come to expect from both David and you. Kudos. Allan

Gary, I just saw your digital level and think it is a great little device. Gonna get me one of those!! Regarding rounding the coaming/head ledge corners, I just learned it is best to do after the deck planks are in place around the the coamings. That way the bottom portion of the coamings remain square so the planking fits properly against the corners. A sharp chisel will put a little chamfer on the corner down to the top of the deck planks, then a touch with a sanding stick to round of the chamfer. Allan

Dz Doesn't a needle leave an indented ring in the wood? Neat idea none the less. Could also just drill the right size hole, smear a dab of PVA in a few holes at a time and sand so the saw dust fills the holes and the color will be close to that of the surrounding wood. Drill a few more, glue and sand a few thousand times. Allan

What is the diameter of the tree nails (full scale)? What material do you plan to use? They should be very subtle if visible at all. You should not be able to see them from about 2 to 3 feet away. Look at the various build logs and will see a lot of cases of ships with hulls and decks that look like they have the measles because the treenails/trunnels/trennals were too large and/or too dark. Allan

Welcome aboard, you have turned our world upside down! (and gave me a little headache😁) Allan

Thanks Mark, I will take a look at their website and print out the details and leave several copies in obtrusive places around the house, hint, hint, hint, hint for the admiral. David, I do note in your drawing and the photo from Mark that the corners are well rounded, something I see missing on a lot of models. Of course the rounding is pain in the neck as it is only above the deck line. Nothing easy in getting it done right 😀 Allan

There are a LOT of positive comments to be made on your build, but it is especially nice to see belaying pins that are at scale. This subject has been coming up a lot lately as oversized pins detract from otherwise fine models but yours are a very nice change. Allan

Rob, As a Nelson fan, if you have not already done so, please consider signing up for the Trafalgar TV series and Adam Preston's podcasts. Details on the series are in the Nautical/Naval history forum posted by Adam. Cheers Allan

Thank you Mark Very much appreciated. I really should put the Kriegstein collection on my birthday or Christmas list. Thanks for that tip as well!! Allan

Thanks David, I have always used the joint that you show and I actually learned it from your book, but it did not seem to be appropriate for the 17th century. Unfortunately I cannot get a close up that is clear of any contemporary models of the 17th century in my photos taken at Preble Hall to see what they used. I only bring this up now as I am about to start making coamings for the Charles Galley and want to be as accurate as possible. Thanks again Allan

I have never seen a ponce wheel that can space the nail pattern an inch or less apart at scale but would love to find one. The smallest I can find is 1/4 inch diameter with about 18 teeth so the spacing is twice what it should be at 1:48, and triple or quadruple at other popular scales. The photo Bob posted seems to have spacing similar to that of the Connie, about 1 inch or less so a 1/4 inch wheel would need about 40 teeth for 1:48 and 60 teeth for 1:64. For 1:96, 1:98, !:100 scales, it is much like trying to show treenails, impossible to make to scale. Maybe at these scales it is better to have no nail pattern at all. Allan

David, I cannot find anything with dovetails for the 17th century. The following is the half lap and other joints in Franklin's book and I was going to go with the simple half lap joint. TIA!!! Allan

Oh boy, dovetailing is going to be fun at 1:64. Heck, that would be difficult at 1:24!! Time to get out the 10X loupe.

Thank you Michael. I do wonder if the ropes were ever just coiled on the pins like we often see, even on contemporary models. For real world the method on the video is more convenient, and for models, it is much easier to get the coils to hang nicely. Allan

Ref: British war ships. By a Navy Board order of 1795, coamings were to be built well clear of the deck, about 15 to 18 inches above deck level. Contemporary models of the late 18th century and 19th century show the top of the head ledges to round more than than the rounding of the deck itself as does a drawing in Goodwin's Construction Fitting of the English an of War. The gratings are similarly rounded to match the top of head ledges I cannot find when the use of the severely rounded head ledges began. Would it be 1795 with the raised ledges and coamings or prior to that? Photos of the contemporary model of the Royal William 1719 show low coamings but appear to have rounding that is not so severe and approximates the rounding of the deck. Same goes for several models of the late 17th century to the mid 18th century as well as drawings in Franklins Navy Board Ship Models 1650-1750. Another interesting note is that Franklin explains that in the 17th century and into the 18th century the head ledges and coamings were half-lapped as opposed to having angled joints. TIA Allan

Love the photo Phil. For anyone who has not seen a video of how to belay a line on a pin, this video is quick and clear. Allan

This is an Interesting thread Eswee got started. A potential problem with paper is that rag/cotton bond may be too thick to be at scale depending on the weight. 20 pound is about 0.004 inches thick, so a pretty close match for 1:48 scale for the thickness of the plates, but too thick to be at scale for 1:64 and smaller. Also consider the thickness of the copper paint. Typical paint layers are 3 mil (0.003), nearly the thickness of the paper. A THIN coat of around 1mil could be the ticket but I don't know if the typical copper paints would look right if applied too thinly. Rolls of copper sheet down to 0.002" thick can be found at places like McMaster Carr. This is so thin it can be cut with scissors. Allan