SJSoane
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Here is the beakhead bulkhead looking aft on the left, and forward on the right. I now see the door out to the platform is just as short as the one into the roundhouse, so I guess they did not mind bending over a lot--like they had a choice... And now I see the access to the roundhouse, and knowing the seat is close to the aft end, it does not seem so awkward. Very public, next to the door out, but less public than the seats of ease on the platform itself. Thanks, druxey, I dropped the height of the seat in this drawing. It looks better than the one in the section. Now on to cutting some wood... Mark
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Thanks, Siggi, my mistake in not showing it clearly enough. Here is a drawing showing the platform above the upper deck, and the captain's hat is touching the forecastle deck (not shaded yet). I drew in the stool, and a possible ladder to it. This shows that the hole in the stool itself is quite close to the entrance to the roundhouse, and therefore one does not have to climb very far in. But it also shows just how low the headroom is, under the foremost beam of the forecastle (with the cattail beam above). This also shows there is no need for full headroom within the roundhouse, because one can never get in to stand up anyway. Gary, thanks, I see what you mean about the little stanchion at the outboard end. It fays into the top of the dogleg, and it is needed to form one of the verticals of the railing above. I will try to draw that presently. Mark
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There is definitely some hocus-pocus going on with the drawings and the model. After looking at the location of the roundhouse in my paper cut-out in #1357 above, the hole barely clears the hull below while leaving little room for a door inboard; way less door than the model shows in #1360 above, and less clearance over the hull than the plan in #1358 shows. And the plan in #1358 shows a stanchion at the outboard edge of the roundhouse that could not be placed there because the dog-leg hull frame takes up the same space. druxey, I thought about whether the seat was a lower platform, but the drawing shows it well into the roundhouse, a longer distance from the aft edge of the platform beam than a typical human thigh could reach. Or, maybe the draftsman did not realize the three dimensional aspect of this feature, and the shipwrights had to move the hole within the roundhouse further aft in compensation. I am concluding it really was a tiny cubby, reached by a ladder, requiring a dextrous bending down and simultaneous twist of the body to insert oneself backwards into a space little wider than one's hips. Such were the privileges of the petty officers. At least it was better than the entirely open seats of ease out in the weather on the platform! Mark
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Gary, Thanks, that would have to be the answer. I'll try working that into my drawings. Mark
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And here is my photo of the original Bellona model, showing the little door to the roundhouse opening just to the right of the arched door to the platform. That space is 3'-4" tall...
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Gary, Here is what the original plan shows, with the roundhouse at the face of the beakhead bulkhead. I seem to recall seeing a ladder and platform in photos of another ship model, maybe the Princess Royal reconstruction. I will look around as well. This would have been impossible to use without some help aft of the roundhouse itself! Mark
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Even worse, when I see what happens in three dimensions, the hull frame (the dogleg end seen below) intrudes into the roundhouse by half its width at the floor. So the door is only 1' 4" wide at the bottom. There had to have been a small ladder up to this, with a platform for turning around and inserting oneself into the little gap opening onto the seat. Mark
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Hmm, working on the beakhead bulkhead today, I noticed that the roundhouse seat of ease for the warrant officers was a very tiny enclosure indeed, and difficult to get into. You can see the roundhouse in profile as the structure with the moldings, sitting on top of the small elevated platform over the upper deck at the bow. From my inspecting captains you can see that it is not tall enough to stand up within, and to get into it, you have to step up 2'-0" feet from the upper deck to the platform, and get through a door only 3'-4" tall. It must have been fun when you were in a hurry.... Mark
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Hi Gary, I haven't drawn it yet, but I probably should now since I have the parts more clearly in my mind right now. Thanks for the suggestion. We have house guests coming soon, so it may be a little while before I have something to show... Best wishes, Mark
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So here is a section at the head, showing how the planking of the beakhead butts into the side of the hull frame, but the moldings sail by and attach onto the forward face of the frame, and then butt into the head rail. Thanks, Siggi and druxey, this was subtle to see, but straightforward construction once drawn. Mark
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Thanks, druxey, I see what you mean. I will try drawing a sketch in a while to study how all of this comes together. A fiendish corner, methinks! Mark
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Thanks, Siggi, that answers the question well. It looks like the Bellona first model is consistent with these other hulls. The bulkhead bulwark does sit inside the outer hull framing. The paint helps obscure the joint. I am so grateful for your extensive collection of photos, and knowledge! Best wishes, Mark
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I have been working on converting more of my original drafted drawings to CAD, because it is so useful for making accurate patterns for parts. I have come across an interesting detail that I had never noticed, where the transverse beakhead bulkhead hits the hull frame at the outboard edge. My photo of the original Bellona model shows the bulkhead and all of its mouldings dying into the side of the frame (the vertical dogleg piece below). In most photos, it is impossible to see this detail, because the headwork obscures this junction. Can this be right, that the bulkhead trim does not wrap around the frame end, to mitre into the trim running down the side of the hull? Does anyone have a photo of a more complete ship model, showing whether or not the bulkhead overlaps the frame at this point? Mark
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Gary, thanks for pointing that out. I didn't notice it first time, and had not seen that before. Very interesting idea, I am surprised it did not catch on more, since the construction layout is more logical. I will probably stay with the hooked scarphs, because I got the process down pretty well while making the main wales. I used the drawing from the Arrogant 1761 as guidance (in Lavery's Bellona book). Best wishes, Mark
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I just caught up with your build. These are great tutorials on miniature machining. It seems like it is hardly possible, and yet you do this with exact precision! Mark
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Before I get to play with compass timber knees, I need to install the spirketting and quickwork on the gundeck. Having read in other posts about the challenges of planking inboard, I decided to approach this deliberately and systematically, at least to make it fun. So, I made a paper pattern of the space between the gundeck waterway and the lower edge of the upper deck clamp. When this fit well, I taped the pattern down on a drawing board to calculate the offsets for the various curves. I then input this into Turbocad, to obtain a digital image of the spirketting and quickwork, fully expanded. Next, I can make patterns for the individual planks, ready to start cutting out. It was interesting to see, when the side was expanded, that the long horizontal lines were not parallel. The tumblehome on the gundeck varies, more sloped at midships and more vertical at the bow, while at the stern the surface slopes outward because of the rising of the lower hull coming up. Since the gunports height dimensions were measured at true vertical elevation, it means that the gunports fully expanded are taller at midships. Very interesting! Mark
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Gary, did you color/stain the counter the same as the lower wales? It looks nice. Mark
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Hi Marc, Good point. I wonder what the joint would look like. The usual hooked scarph is resisting tension loads parallel to the axis of the wood, which is accomplished by hooks working in compression to resist the load. But this has to resist bending at the elbow of the construction. And since bending has to resist both compression and tension, perhaps it includes a bolt on the tension side? Or a mortise and long tenon might do it? I hope someone has seen a joint that works here! Mark
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Hi Siggi and druxey, I didn't see your posts before I posted my drawing. You both confirm what I now see is an S curve in the fore and aft direction, at least on the upper surface of the hanging knee where it has to clear the lodging knee. This may take some modeling in clay to visualize when I get to building them. I am also thinking that I may build these with a hidden joint between the transverse and hanging arms, so the grain runs along each arm. Carving this out of a solid blank would leave short grain in one arm or the other. I still have to finish the gun deck and then frame the upper deck before I begin to tackle this, so I am some way out. But it is always nice to see what is coming down the road later on! Mark
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It will be a while before I start constructing these knees, but while drawing them I realized just how complex they will have to be. Gary, your drawing really helped me see that the transverse arm has to bend straight down at the side in order to clear the end of the lodging knee, and then the hanging arm can curve back to avoid the port. This rough sketch shows how the hanging knee needs to bend twice--an S curve-- in the fore and aft direction. Mark
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Thanks, Gary, those are very helpful drawings. It looks like they do bend that far when needed. I can hardly imagine what part of a tree gives that kind of a compass timber with a wide sweep in one direction, and a 3'-9" athwartship arm at right angles to it--they must have been rare and therefore very expensive. Yes, those look like they will take a little ingenuity in laying out and forming, and also very wasteful of wood! Some large piece of those is going to be short grain and therefore a little fragile. Your Alfred quarter galleries are looking great. Best wishes, Mark
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Looking great! This is another example of how we somehow think we know what is going on, only to discover that it is very much more complex than we thought! Mark
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At last, on to cutting wood again. I will begin work on the spirketting on the gun deck, and in preparation I have been elaborating my drawings to include the strake locations, and also the knees and standards. I drew for the first time the location of the hanging knees, including the compass knees that need to bend around gunports. I have discovered a few locations where the hanging knee has to bend all the way across the gunport, making a very large knee indeed (see left-most curved knee in drawing below). Does this look right, or would they have reversed the lodging knee and the handing knee at these locations, to leave less of a distance to curve around? I just don't recall seeing any examples of knees bending quite this far. I imagine this would have been very expensive. Best wishes, Mark
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Thanks, druxey, that confirms what I just discovered on the ropewalk, that wetting expands the cotton fibers quite a lot. After stretching as you described, my rope came off with no unraveling at all--and now a lovely hemp color. Mark
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Gary, looking great. And it looks very challenging! A lot of pieces having to float in the air before they all start connecting together... Mark
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