woodrat

10 hours ago, J11 said:

Definitely a museum piece! 

Thanks J11, most kind. But I don't think so as it breaks too many academic preconceptions .

Cheers Dick 

Thank you for all the likes. I will be off line for a while. I hope to have finished the hull by the end of the year.

Cheers

Dick

Thanks, Steven. This tends to confirm that there was some sort of deck in these vessels, they were shallow draft and were indeed sailed.

Dick

On 4/23/2025 at 12:36 AM, Siggi52 said:

with the rocker in the keel you will have no trouble with hogging. That is statics.

You may well be right but I will be able to test this . Certainly the Hjortspring vessel  had hogging issues and the Nydam, being pre-viking also may have had them. But the later viking vessels may have overcome this problem.

Dick

The after deck framing

The central thicker deck planking in place

The outer thinner deck planking in place. Gratings in place.The waterway will be added when the deck is finally attached

The two upper decks are removable which allows completion of the main deck and facilitates finishing off the upper deck furniture etc

Cheers

Dick

This shows the attachment to my cross-sled for making the gratings. The slats are to be the thickness of the saw blade(1mm.). A  1mm. thick brass strip is glued to the slot to allow a spacing of 1mm.

This allows slots to be cut in a block slightly deeper than the planned grating

The grating is turned through 90 degrees and shallower cuts are made for the upper slats

The 1mm. thick upper slats are glued in place . They are deeper than required and the excess will be sanded off later.

double sided tape (wondeful stuff!) is glued to a block of wood and the grating stuck face down .

The excess depth is sanded off. (But Use a thicker block of wood than I did to avoid burnt finger tips). This exposes the lower slats.

T

The grating is detached from the tape, turned over and the excess of the upper slats sanded off

the grating just needs trimming to size now

Cheers. I apologise for teaching you to suck eggs but I have seen some awful gratings in my time. Usually with way over size holes that a sailor's foot would fall through.

Dick

On 4/20/2025 at 6:35 PM, AnobiumPunctatum said:

In your scale you can build the model with all the fine details 

Thanks Christian. I have not seen the vessel and may never do so but it is not only interesting, as you say, but an important  precursor of the later viking clinker-built sailing vessels. The large scale will allow me to test the efficacy of the anti hogging mechanism.

Tschüss

Dick

The forecastle deck. The framing is planned to be visible on the starboard side but planked on the port side. the central planking is thicker than the outer decke planking. The forecastle deck remains removable until all work on the main deck is complete.

central thicker planking

outer planking awaiting waterways

forecastle deck removed

Cheers

Dick

Sheer plank largely finished and some of the framing of the quarterdeck. Now I have to do some painting. Deck furniture will red ochre as may be the inside planking.

Cheers

Dick

I have roughed out the keel plank as well as the stem and stern posts out of lacy she-oak.

The shaping of these members will be the most difficult part of the build because of the complex 3-D shape. I will endeavour to include some rocker to the keel plank.

Cheers

Dick

The beakhead bulkhead finished, as well as the shear plank for the forecastle. Note the cutout for the bowsprit

Dick

You're entirely welcome, Bill. Here is the forepart of the ship prior to insertion of beakhead bulkhead

The beakhead bulkhead is framed and the stanchions with holes for sheaves applied. The extra planking for the anchor lining extends to the stempost according to plans which brings it up to the thickness of the main wale.

Cheers

Dick

Thanks Siggi52 for the info and useful discussion by private message. He suggested that acquiring and using the most recent plans made by the National Museum in Copenhagen may produce a more upto date model.  A recent replica was made from these plans. An excellent model would be made from these plans were they available from the museum.

IHowever

However, I have proceeded too far along a particular line namely the Akerlund plans to go back to scratch. In addition, Akerlund is the only reconstruction to show a practicable solution to the problem of hogging and twisting of the hull and hopefully I can test his concept in a model. The Nydam Tveir replica shows no evidence of a hogging solution.

The next step, having started the building board, is to carve the keel plank , stem and stern post.

At the end of the day , if I finish it, the model will be my modification of Akerlund's concept. I do not pretend it will be a "replica" of the original boat as I don't think that can be done.

Cheers

Dick

On 2/14/2025 at 10:11 PM, Ahmose said:

No, I haven't made any model yet, I just like nautical history/archaeology.

Never mind, Ahmose. We are a very inclusive mob here at MSW and are happy to talk even to non-modellers. With your breadth of knowledge you can keep us from egregious errors😁

Dick

Thanks, John. The Hjortspring vessel was reconstructed with and without a hogging truss and the crew said it handled much better with the truss.

Also this Nydam replca seems to have some sort of anti-hogging device rigged.

Cheers

Dick

Ahmose, thanks for that. Have you done any models yourself?

Dick

 I have now received the monograph of Harald Akerlund 1963

It is in swedish but does have a useful english abstract and the plans are well printed.  I have looked at the original reconstruction by the excavator Engelbrecht 1863 and by Shetelig and Johannesen 1929 and it is my opinion that Akerlund's reconstruction is the most likely to approximate the true shape of the hull. He also cogently argues that the present display of the hull is inaccurate as the stern has been displayed as the stem and vice versa. He concludes that the rudder was installed on the port side.  The retrieved rudder seems to support this as well as some holes in the sternpost (as he calls it) which may well be supports for the rudder. I am not convinced of this as I think he may have put the aerofoil rudder back to front. Nonetheless, the rudder side need not be starboard as in the later viking vessels. Indeed, there evidence from stone carving from Gotland of both a quarter rudder at the rear and another one at the fore quarter.

In any case, I will go with Akerlunds lines and orientation although I may put the rudder to starboard. He also justifies the presence of a sophisticated central strengtheing frame and hogging truss. Otherwise the extreme thinness of the hull planking would lead to failure of the hull, I think his reconstruction of this is good and explains the profusion of unexplained carved wood pieces found with the hull. I will include the hogging truss as I did with my mycenaean galley.

Dick

Thanks, Ahmose.

Apart from logboats with side extensions, the only survivong example of sewn construction remain the egyptian boats such as the Khufu barge , Dashur boats etc. Itw ould be interesting experimental archaeology to attempt a sewn bronze age levantine hull 

but I will leave this to someone like you. You may be interested in the model by Sceatha of an egyptian "Byblos" ship:

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/23895-byblos-ship-by-sceatha-finished-25th-century-bc/

I have included some sewn elements in my mycenaean galley including a detachable stern piece a la Khufu barge.

Cheers

Dick

Ahmose welcome to the discussion. You are quite right about the Medinet Habu reliefs. The sea peoples vessels are clearly sail powered and can't be called galleys although auxiliary oar power may have been available. I also accept that much or even most late bronze age sea commerce was syro-canaanite. The vessel I built however is a piratic coasting galley with auxiliary sail power. I would value your thoughts on this putative reconstruction. 

Cheers

Dick

The stove is brick lined . I made the walls of sculpy with copper wire cage. The support for the cookpot is of brass. The smokehood is tarnished brass. The smokehood is meant to hang off the deck beams over the stove.

Cheers

Dick

Shown here are the elm tree pumps for pumping out the bilgewater. This vessel would not have had chain pumps. Water for washing down decks was obtained with buckets over the side.

Cheers

Dick

The earliest vessels which have yet been excavated in Scandinavia and Northern Europe are not the Viking sailing ships we all know but are rowed vessels without the capacity to sail. Apart from small paddled boats known from grave burials, the earliest major excavated vessel is the Hjortspring vessel which dates from the 4^th century BCE and is a sewn vessel propelled by paddles and having a keel plank.

The use of sail is thought to have occurred late in this region and the reasons for this late adoption are far from clear. The earliest accepted archaeological evidence for sail in Scandinavia and northern Europe comes from picture stones dated to the 6^th century CE at the earliest. The earliest excavated sailing ship is the well known and frequently modelled Oseberg vessel of the early 9^th century CE.

Before the Viking era, large vessels for transport of men or goods seem to have been rowed vessels lacking a true keel and a mast. It is not till the Kvalsund boat, a rowed vessel of the late 8^th century, was found do we see a true keel and it is from this vessel that the viking age is said to begin.

The famous longships of the viking age were often ship burials but in the pre-viking era the boat finds are sometimes found to be bog sacrifices. These vessels were deliberately sunk or broken up in bogs together with weapons and armour similarly broken, which suggests a deliberate sacrifice to a beneficent god to celebrate a victory or as part of religious rites. No human remains have been found with the vessels.

The most important bog finds were the Nydam boats. These were excavated in 1863 and, of the three vessels found, only one has been preserved. This is the Nydam B boat, a rowed vessel 23 metres in length with only a keel plank and no mast step. There were 15 thwarts and probably 28 or 30 rowers. A quarter rudder was found with the boat. The boat was constructed from oak and a large part of the vessel has been preserved.

There are similarities of Nydam B with the Sutton Hoo saxon ship burial and suggestion has been made that the Nydam B boat may have been the type of vessel that the Frisians, Saxons and Jutes used to reach southern England. However, the Nydam boat is built for coastal or riverine travel and would have had great difficulty with the open ocean so exactly how this crossing was made remains unclear.

The lack of a true keel and the construction of the hull make it likely that hogging of the hull would have been a problem. Found in association with Nydam B were many staves and wooden devices which have been interpreted (Akerlund 1963) as being remnant of the mechanism of a hogging truss. This has been questioned by other authorities and remains a possibility.

I plan to attempt a model of the Nydam B boat at 1:20 scale using the dimensions estimated by Akerlund who has allowed for 14% wood shrinkage over the century since excavation. I am still considering whether to include the hogging truss in the reconstruction.

I cannot start yet as I am awaiting receipt of a publication from Germany on the boat

Cheers

Dick

11 hours ago, Mark Pearse said:

Have you been using local hardwoods, & how do you find them to work with? Some of the timber looks to me like Jarrah or Karri, both seriously dense & hard wood.

Yes, Mark. As this vessel is of historical importance to Western Australia, having claimed same for Louis XV in 1772, I thought I should use local timber. I happened to have a sink cut-out made from kiln dried jarrah. As you state, jarrah is extremely hard and durable and cannot be machined without good equipment e.g. table saw, bandsaw, thickness sander etc. I have used jarrah on previous models (venetian round ship, venetian carrack, Yenikapi 12) and found that it machines beautifully. It is the perfect framing wood. When oiled it is initialy quite red but rapidly darkens to the colour  of old oak. But beware, do not work this wood (or any wood for that matter) without good dust extraction and masks. Jarrah dust is very fine and irritative. Also it is best to use kiln dried jarrah as old floorboards and roof timbers are brittle and too splintery to use. Jarrah is getting more and more valued in WA and people are less inclined to burn it in their stoves. I dont know how available it is in UK Europe or North America. As an indication of how hard this wood is, it was used during the nineteenth century in english and australian  cities in the form of blocks as an alternative to cobblestones as it was so durable and deadened the sound of carriage wheels.

9 hours ago, Louie da fly said:

Satisfaction and pride in your own work are, I think, what counts most.

Zackly, Steven.

Cheers

Dick

Thanks for all the likes. This latest starts the deck furniture, in this case the manger or at least half of it. This occupies the space aft of the hawse holes and forward  of the bowsprit step. The manger consists of a space contained by removable planks which contains and drains any water entering through the hawse holes. It is also a convenient place to house animals, hence the name. It probably won't be seen on completion of the model but what the heck, I know it's there!

Cheers

Dick

Happy New Year All! Further slow progress on the Fat Belly. The hanging knees are installed in quarterdeck and forecastle. Note that some are obliquely placed to avoid gunports and I believe are called dagger knees. All deck beams remain removable so I can complete deck furniture and install the elm-tree pumps etc. The main double capstan has been made.

Cheers

Dick