vossiewulf

So here we were after adding a few more planks on both sides, making sure we were now fully with the program and the planks being added were fully aligned with the universe before moving to the next. I've now reversed order and have the garboards in on both side and am planking downward from there. Rick, had no issues with twist. What I adid was sweep upward those four final planks at the stern such that the garboard ones, if taken to the rudder post, would be two planking widths above the keel. That leaves stealers simple and at the bottom corner of the keel. I will do something similar with the final planking. I just bent the planks sideways for my sweep, twist over that length doesn't take much force. Finally had to move to concave tools to cleanup theses planking sections. I guess some people leave that entirely to the end, I cannot And here we are fitting, gluing, and cleaning up the final plank on this side. By the way I really like that flat and concave Veritas detail palm planes for this. Almost perfect combo of small footprint and precision and control with it in your palm. Clicky to go see how unhappy your wife is going to be. And here we are basic side view, which can best be called pedestrian. On the other hand, I'm very pleased with the what is the real purpose, which is establishing the final shape of the hull and after careful work here I'm very pleased with the shapes and the symmetry. Almost perfect fair curves. Fit into the rabbets all the way around also is good. As mentioned lines look good. Then last step for the evening was cleaning up the stern counter for the planking it needs prior to final hull planking. Since those ends were under considerable tension at gluing this was the one place I was using lots of glue and accelerator to set a good hold quickly. I shouldn't have, at least you should never do that however tempting on anything you'll have to fiddle with later. So endgrain reinforced with gobs of glue... where is my rotary tool? Then finalize with a good medium-sized file. All done ready for planking. That's going to help me get used to the boxwood, first place I plan to use it tomorrow is here on this nice simple straight planking area. Then since he'd been on his head for a while I decided to let him sit on his feet overnight. Starting to look like a cutter.

Thanks folks. This evening I put in those two planks, sanded down hull to final shape, and trimmed and flushed the planking ends and made the counter ready for its planking. Yes, I learned several lessons on what not to do and that there are not stages of planking anything that should not engender constant paranoia as to whether something - anything - is getting out of alignment. Also the last 8 planks use the technique I plan to use on the final planking, every single one of them has an invisible glue line. The way I had been doing the planks, which was beveling the plank I was about to glue on, just wasn't getting me the totally consistent results one needs here, there continued to be long stretches of good glue lines with a couple minor but noticeable wiggles. I finally decided that trying to do a fit that complex while working on a loose wiggly bendy plank was a bit trickier than I'd prefer, so I switched to beveling the edge of the plank that is already on the ship that I am about to glue to. With it being glued down, I had no issues using a sharp knife to bevel and true the edges such that they are always perpendicular to the bulkheads, followed up by some straightening with a straight flat rectangular #2 cut needle file. Goal was to make it just that a straight square edge on the plank you're about to glue down should fit perfectly. Also stopped using glue on the edges except where absolutely necessary, no matter how good your joint is it will be made slightly less good by glue that's thicker than water, I remembered this trick from something I did a long time ago. Also pretty sure I like having them able to move a bit independently in terms of long term stability, I think more problems will be incurred by locking them all together. Before I forget, a nice thing about my Mk.I Advanced Rope-Powered Keelalator it that is sounds like I'm working on a ship. Every time I put stress on it gluing or whatever, the lines creak against each other and the wood, unintentionally very nicely atmospheric. To go back all the way to fixing the problem I had.... First was an extensive and detailed post-mortem analysis, something I do at work every week on some issue or other. So I spent some time figuring out how that had happened while wondering why I didn't notice it. Once I understood that it was time to redraw the plank lines as necessary to be what I wanted them to be from here, and then that told me what I needed to do to fix the two sides. Those fixes involved cutting 4 or 5 inch curving pieces to change the current line into the line it should have been at that point. So I took some tracing paper, not to trace the curve but because it's thin and easily bendable, put it over the location where we needed the repair plank, and use a finger to bend the paper to give me a nice crisp line of the curve that I could see, then used that to draw the line, then glued the paper to a piece of planking stock. It looks considerably more messy than it is, I actually had a good line I could see. I also bent the plank to make sure the curve transposed correctly. Then trimmed it down to fit the curve with knife and sandpaper. Now that I had the curve I needed to mark the heights it needed to be at each station. Trimmed down, you can see it's now to shape. Even though it looked fine dry fitting it, I spazzed gluing it in and it ended up with a less-than-stellar glue line but it was a repair and I could deal with it. Note I'm just bringing myself back to the original plan, which itself was poorly conceived in that the bow planks should have more upward sweep for a graceful look, but considering the second planks have a different width and therefore a completely different scheme will need to be created, I didn't see any value in trying to fix this. It looks goof from all angles but beam on. Before I resumed planking though, as you saw from me reinforcing planks already installed, that I just wasn't happy trying to plank and then correctly fair planks that are floating over large amounts of empty space, so I decided I was going to fill all 6 remaining holes in some way, and while I was at it was going to try different methods for future reference. First for the biggest gaps was plan solid basswood. Here we fit, install, and clean up. For the back hole, I decided on a simple cross brace made from some basswood and a planking scrap. Here testing it for support with fair plank line, this one needs to come down still. The final hole got bridges of plank scrap covered by kit spare plywood, with them placed to go under the edges of two planks. Here they are all done. Will post this here before bringing us up to date.

Yes I did Mark, and if you go back you'll see I went to the lengths of marking it all out on the hull. I just didn't execute said plan correctly. After the first three planks the problem was not very noticeable, it would be more so to me now. I decided my plan was working and put on 3 more each side, focused entirely on the side to side joints and geometry, playing around with tools to determine how I was going to do that part, and it wasn't until I was done with that that I realized there was an increasing problem. I have a bit more control of the planking lines now. Obviously almost done with this planking, will post something "real" when I am. Finishing with those planks is intended, since I started at bulkhead as required by the kit, finishing in the middle was inevitable since I wasn't going to try to plank into the rabbet at the keel with the garboard being the last strake. So I got to four left and reversed direction, placing the garboard and working down.

Thanks Gerard! Crap! I'm threadjacking! AGAIN! AAAAUUGGGH (still screaming as disappears over horizon)

Gerard, thanks. Could you estimate the average length of deck planks?

This came from a discussion that turned into threadjacking on Mark's Licorne build log, as he was discussing his use of his laser to cut pre-fit deck planks for the Licorne. That made me think of something I've been wondering about, every single kit build you see 1) kit bulkheads fitted to keel, 2) blocks of some kind inserted at the bows and sterns at least because every single kit has way fewer bulkheads than it should, particularly around the bow and stern. What I've been wondering is why someone doesn't make quick 3d hull models of major kits (this really would be quick to anyone experienced) by using the kit bulkhead shapes placed at the correct locations on the 3d model. Once that model is skinned, you can slice it at any particular point and there's the bulkhead outline at that location. Add a little to allow for sanding to fully fair the hull with proper curves the whole way and there's the shape you'd need to cut with the laser. Only other factor is looking at the fit on the keel/keel plate to figure out what kind of fit you need for these extra parts. Doing versions with 2 or 3 or more bulkheads between each kit bulkhead would be trivial, with best results probably being variable, with many at the bow and stern, and a few less at midships, with the goal being that once sanded every plank should lay in a continuous curve as the real ones did and all are supported sufficiently so there are no problems with planks flexing under sanding. Anyway, since every kit build includes this step it seems to be a viable niche market for someone with a laser to sell into. I'd certainly pay a reasonable amount of money for pre-made parts that made this annoying step easier. And it's not like you'd have to maintain a big stock, you just make sure you have the files you need and when you make a sale, run what's needed through the laser and ship. Mark suggested we take the idea here to see if there are any takers.

About 6" across. I keep telling everyone these are too big and damned inconvenient to carry, but do they listen to me? Nooooo Real answer - .750"/19.05mm

Yes, apologies to Mark for late-night threadjacking.

Thanks Popeye, will keep that in mind.

Gemma, I agree with Pat that foam is questionable if you intend the model to have any longevity, they don't generally age well and some kind of bad thing will happen when they do so inside a ship model. Pat, no you can't cut wood of any kind with any hot wire cutter I'm aware of, they're designed to melt their way through with little resistance, I foresee fire extinguishers in the future of anyone who tries cutting balsa. I think the only reasonable way to do it is the same way the kit is done, with additional bulkheads laser-cut out of material of similar thickness. As nice as a fully continuous surface to work against is, it's not necessary, the requirement is to make the gaps narrow enough to really fair the hull lines with enough bulkheads that the planks can follow a correct curve the whole way, and to provide enough support so planks don't sag under sanding between bulkheads. It surprises me that no one has taken a run at making basic 3d hull models of most of the major kits using the kit bulkhead shapes in the correct locations, there is more than one possible aftermarket application of a library like that. In this case once you have the skinned model you can slice it anywhere you want and there's the profile of a bulkhead in that location. All you need to do is add enough extra to allow the fairing sanding and there's the final bulkhead that would need to be cut. Very easy to produce versions that use 2, 3, 4 or more new bulkheads between the existing ones. Only other factor is checking the keel/keel plate part to see what kind of fit you need for the new bulkheads.

This is more of a supplies item than tools, but I just ordered these last night from Amazon. They look to be just the right size for small ship parts, come with labels, and a pack of 50 are $10 which seems a pretty good deal.

Interesting Derek, scaled down yes that looks like it could do a number of useful things.

First used mine to do a super-detailed cockpit on a 1/32 FW-190A-8 back in like 1991. They work very well, just has limited sizes. If you look on Otto Frei there are punch sets with a wider range of sizes, but they're also pretty expensive.

This thread isn't just for me to talk to myself btw, if anyone else comes across handy tools that others may not be aware of, post them here.

Thin-beam square from Micromark, very handy working with thin sheet stock. Mini-scraper from Lee Valley, just the right size for ship models.

I've fixed the planking lines and am working on completing it, have pics of the steps but will post once I'm closer to done with the inner planking. This however is how I ended up needing to fix, this is a plank at 2x size, the outer line shows the widths the planks should have had at the interim stations, the red line shows what I actually did. Those slightly too narrow widths at the interim stations added up over a series of planks to that bad upward sweep. And the results:

Dang, I was hoping for Commerce de Marseille at 1/6 But I'm also sure that's going to be one of if not the finest model of a 74 in existence.

Repeating other folks, they look great Tom. I'm planning to use this build log for when I get to my Constitution, and I hope I can do someewhere close to as well. My workbench top will never look that neat however

Thanks guys, I had actually read those, but I'd ruled spiling out as a factor since doing it correctly requires planking material three or four times the width of the intended plank, and we don't have that in a kit. The boxwood planking from Crown Timber that is intended for the final planking is even smaller, at 4mm wide, so I assumed this was something reserved for people scratchbuilding that was one area where scratchbuilding is a bit easier than kit building since we can't do that. I think the main issue for me here is that I didn't recognize the need for the taper on the bow end to be a pronounced curve, not at all a straight line between midships and bow as I cut, and hence the interim widths of the plank at the last two stations prior to the stem are much too narrow; otherwise I have no difficulty doing what this guy says is impossible, to bend a plank along its width and twist it so it lays flat on the bulkhead.

If they're not available I have no issue making something like that for myself. I was more thinking it's a niche market that someone with a laser could make a little money in Create required files for top 10-15 kits, offer for sale, run them off on demand.

Thanks Pat and Rick. I'm not anywhere close to throwing hands in air, I expected these kinds of things and were I to rip off everything planked so far and start over again it would be massively better as I've already run into the major things having to do with laying it out and tapering and beveling. It's exactly what I was hoping would happen, to see and figure out solutions to these things before we get to the final planking. I think you're both right that I started the tapering too far back, and now that I've seen this I know that if you have a more vertical stem, the more likely the taper isn't going to be straight and you need to start a little forward at least. But I'm going to take the time to draw it out in Photoshop or Illustrator, I bet it's actually a noticeable curve and for best results I'd have to largely skip using my plane and focus on using abrasives to get that curve correct. As for beveling, sounds like Pat says 100% bevel on the lower edge of the plank you're gluing on, and Rick says bevel the upper edge The one thing I don't hear is trying to do both sides, but I think what Pat is saying make for easier adjutment/fitting.

Great idea Mark. One I was thinking of after watching everyone spend time using filler blocks to fill in overlarge gaps between bulkheads for planking was whether someone with a laser rig and reasonable CAD skills could create filler kits for popular retail kits. For example you could do two tweened bulkheads that get added between each kit bulkhead, at that point no gap would be big enough to cause a problem. Or simpler, but less elegant, would be bread and butter pieces that you stack and then slide in between bulkheads that are cut to fit specific bulkhead locations. I think those would be quite doable and I at least would pay some money for something like that to cut out an annoying step by using laser-cut pieces that would solve the problem not just for the bow and stern but provide pieces for midships as well, I would use them.

Another one for new folks, if you don't fill the bulkhead spaces in with blocks, the long midships first planking section in particular will flex, making it trickier than it should be to sand to the smooth curves you want for the second planking. Answer is Sepping's angled bracing for Lady Nelson: Take some scrap inner planking strips and cut one or two grooves into them like this. Put glue on the side without the grooves, position, then press down making them fold at the grooves so they follow the inner curve well enough for a good glue joint. Once that's done, fill the grooves with super glue and set with accelerator, end result is a strong and rigid support following the curve of the planking. And it makes those sections much more rigid so they won't flex during sanding. I did this after 6 planks, you could do it after 7 (halfway). I'm considering filling in the remaining areas to be planked with some basswood.

Popeye, you're correct I'm spending more time on this than is necessary, and for my second and third and fourth ship I won't be spending this time. But remember this is my first ship, and very shortly I will need to do the outer planking which does require as close to perfect joinery as I can do. I could just race through this section and then try to produce that high quality joinery, but that would seem to be wishful thinking. So instead I am trying to learn how to get the fit I want on the outer planks by practicing on the inner planking layer. Somewhere above I said it better by saying I now have 28 inner planks with which to learn quality planking before I have to do it for real. So this is a first-model workflow not to be repeated on later models. And it's working, I mentioned above each plank that's going on is fitting better with less effort, and I'm figuring out which steps are really important to get that fit and which aren't, and I'm running into the problems I would face on the outer planking beforehand so I hopefully don't face them at a time where it will be orders of magnitude more difficult to fix. And I have a new set of questions and another problem that I need to ask about, now that I'm halfway through the inner planking. First question has to do with beveling plank edges - I watched Chuck's videos and he seems to not do any beveling of the edges he's not gluing, and does all of the required beveling to make the next plank fit correctly on that next plank. I'm wondering if that is the standard method or whether people try to do it more as it was really done, with the edge of each plank being perpendicular to the tangent of the bulkhead/frame at that point, meaning that you split the required bevel between the two planks so each gets some instead of Chuck's method where only one is beveled and that bevel needs to be more extreme. The former method makes more sense to me but requires a beveling step on all edges instead of just half of them. And now the next problem - When it came to the required bow and stern taper, after laying it out it looked very close to a straight shot in both cases, so I've been tapering from the last full-sized midship bulkhead in each direction down to the correct bow and stern plank sizes (midships is 3/16", bow is .108" and stern .140" for the first 10 planks). However I now think that was wrong and the taper on the bow needed to be done in steps, or most accurately it should be a slight curve from midships to final bow width. At least that's my explanation for what I'm seeing now, which is that the midships and bow dimensions are right but the interim widths are slightly too narrow, And was we've added up those small width misses we now have a significant one. Since this is inner planking I can use whatever means I want to fix that in this case, the concern is how to avoid it with the final planking. So am I correct here in what is happening? And if so, what's the best way to do a curving taper like that?

Going to show a few more pics below of a problem I had to fix last night, another example of something I missed due to my noobishness and simply not knowing where all the minefields are. Also, don't think I am imagining that anyone commenting on this thread is learning anything from what I'm doing, I'm showing what I'm doing so 1) you folks can say OMG DONT DO THAT if you see me heading down a bad path, plus 2) Rick has saddled me with the responsibility of creating the greatest build log/practicum ever for new people building LN, one so perfect that 100 years from now modelers will still be saying "man, THAT was a good practicum," earning themselves odd looks from the floating cyborg barista at their local Starbucks zero-G bar. First a couple pics for new people showing how I'm marking my planks, showing bow and stern ends, which side is the current glue line, and where the tapers begin. In my shooting board we line the start of taper mark on the top edge of the plank flush with the shooting board surface, and the other end is positioned so we remove everything down to the taper mark. Before and after bow taper. And I'm using this Modified Passaro Bender for the vertical bends, wet plank, bend it more than is needed, clamp in place, hit it with heat (hair dryer or plank bender) and then let it cool. So, with each plank I'm figuring out the geometry of the joining surfaces better, and each glue line is better than the last. And there I was feeling all fat and happy about that and congratulating myself when start dry-fitting the third plank on the port side. The bulkhead strips were registered on their top edges in the stem slot, I never considered the possibility they'd have different heights. And of course they did. And it looks like the first couple planks just exacerbated it. If this were the second planking, I'd probably tear off the port planks and start over. And if I decided I couldn't do that, I'd be doing calculations to split the amount to be removed off the remaining planks to minimize the noticeability of the fix. However, since this is the first planking I'm going to take it all out in one shot. Caliper set to .108", the height of the bow end of the planks. We can see how much we have to take off that plank on the right Mark the removal line. Start removal with xacto. Then riffler files to straighten and bevel correctly for new glue joint. Check, looks like that's correct. For inexplicable reasons didn't take a photo of the fix spot after putting on the third plank, I'll post one later But we do see that the glue lines are getting better with each one, Unless something else interesting happens, otherwise I'm going to be head down finishing the first planking run, will post more pics when we get there