Robin Lous Posted September 17, 2016 Share #1 Posted September 17, 2016 After weighting the tubes in use and new tubes....I used 28 grams of Uhu Hart and 4 grams of Zap-a-gap. The weight of my build is now...58 grams The Zap CA is pretty much 100% efficient...or at least hardly any waste. But the Uhu Hart? Much of it stays on the coctail sticks, glue tray, my fingers, pants, desk and whatever. Just guessing, but I think I waste at least 50%. So...on my ship...4 grams of CA and about 14 grams Uhu. How much of it evaporates when drying? I think it's about 50%....so 58 grams of ship is made of about 9 grams of glue and 49 grams of wood. Uhmm.....about 15% of the ships weight is cured glue. I was bored Robin skipper1947, BANYAN, overdale and 6 others 9 Quote WIP: No ships atm...sorry!🙄 Completed: Greek bireme - Dusek - scale 1:72 Louie da fly: "I think it requires a special kind of insanity to choose a galley to build a model of." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDW Posted September 17, 2016 Share #2 Posted September 17, 2016 That is interesting. I have never used Uhu Hart glue. Is it a PVA, or something else? A friend and I have built a lot of micro scale R/C aircraft where keeping weight to a bare minimum is critical. My friend swears he has tested it and that CA glue is much heavier than PVA glue. I am not a gram-counter when it comes to building and flying my micro size aircraft, but maybe I should be? I have never checked to verify his assertion about CA being heavier. But the truth is, when building model aircraft, I prefer PVA glue in spite of what it might weigh. Reason being, if I make a mistake, I can un-do it with a drop of water on the glue joint whereas CA is pretty much set once it is used. mtaylor and Robin Lous 2 Quote Completed Projects: USS Fletcher 1:144 Scharnhorst 1:350 USS Independence LCS-2 1:350 1:32 J7W1 Shinden Interceptor/Fighter Fairey Swordfish Mk. II 1:48 Harbor Tug Box Scale Albatros D.V 1:32 Ala-Kart 1:25 Ferrari 250 GT California Spyder 1:24 S-100 Schnellboot 1:72 Mercury Capsule and Atlas Booster BR-52 Steam Locomotive 1:35 Triumph 3 HW Motorcycle 1:9 Scale F-16XL-2 Experimental Fighter Bomber 1:48 Rafale 1:48 F-15E Strike Eagle 1:48 Petlyakov PE-2 Soviet Dive Bomber 1:48 TBM3 Avenger 1:32 1931 Cadillac 1:25 Scammell Pioneer SV2S Heavy Breakdown Tractor 1:35 M-50 Israeli Sherman 1:35 Military Wrecker 1:32 Delahaye 135 1:24 Toyota Sard Supra GT 1:24 Enzo Ferrari 1:24 1970 Baldwin Motion Camaro 1:25 1966 Ford Galaxie 500 Stock Car 1:25 American LaFrance Eagle Fire Pumper 1:25 1940 Ford Standard Coupe 1:25 VolksWagen Dragster/Dune Buggy/Street Rod 1:25 Kawasaki Ninja H2 Carbon 1:12 Porsche GT-1 Evo 1:24 Scharnhorst 1940 1:700 IJN Akitsushima Seaplane Tender 1:700 HMS Hood 1941 1:700 Prinz Eugen 1942 1:700 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lous Posted September 17, 2016 Author Share #3 Posted September 17, 2016 Uhu (owl) is a German glue brand. The "Hart" is a clear, strong, fairly quick drying wood glue. Resistant to water, oil and grease. It was recommended by 2 nearby hobbyshops and a ship building guy I met in one of those shops. Being new to wood building I followed their advise. I also tried PVA, but I like this better. For ease of construction when planking on the frames I use the Hart in combination with the Zap a gap CA. Hold in place for a few seconds and done..no clamping needed. I was just wondering about the amount of glue I used, but for no real reason, other than. When I build plastic a small bottle of plastic cement seems to last forever. I use much more glue building wood. Easy to explain of course it's welding versus glueing. Like I said...I was just bored Canute and mtaylor 2 Quote WIP: No ships atm...sorry!🙄 Completed: Greek bireme - Dusek - scale 1:72 Louie da fly: "I think it requires a special kind of insanity to choose a galley to build a model of." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Blarney Posted September 18, 2016 Share #4 Posted September 18, 2016 (edited) Hmm, the glue contains solids and a vehicle, and the vehicle carries the solids and evaporates, leaving the solids to congeal or react. If you want to put glue exactly where you want it and nowhere else, then 1) test fit the parts first, and 2) then figure out a way to hold them position until the glue solidifies. 3)Then place a small dot of glue on a card, and use a needle or toothpick to pick up a droplet and apply it to the parts. Don't use the applicator of the tube. if you use a lot of CA glue, you can draw it up in polypropylene transfer pipettes with fine tips and invert them. They keep for a long time uncapped, or you can crimp the ends. Incidentally, many yellow or white PVA glues can be released with alcohol and/or heat. CA eventually degrades in water (but that's not practical here), but acetone will loosen it. Most epoxies melt at about 250F, but some much at higher temps (e.g. grey J-B Weld). Silicone RTV glues (e.g. aquarium cement) can withstand heat up to about 500F. Polyurethane glues are essentially permanent and must be mechanically removed. Edited September 18, 2016 by Bob Blarney Canute, Robin Lous, Jaxboat and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lous Posted September 18, 2016 Author Share #5 Posted September 18, 2016 mtaylor, Canute and Rick01 3 Quote WIP: No ships atm...sorry!🙄 Completed: Greek bireme - Dusek - scale 1:72 Louie da fly: "I think it requires a special kind of insanity to choose a galley to build a model of." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wefalck Posted September 19, 2016 Share #6 Posted September 19, 2016 (edited) I used UHU hart in my youth, but then got away from it, thinking that it is a close relative to their original UHU Alleskleber (general purpose cement), which was frowned upon as being not a serious technical glue. However, UHU hart is based on cellulose nitrate with some ester as a solvent. Cellulose nitrate actually is one of oldest plastics and not based on mineral. Originally invented to replace ivory in billard balls its main use became film materials. Dolls, table-tennis balls and a variety of other consumer products were made from it. It was phased out as film material in the 1950s already, as it burns easily. A technical summary of UHU hart can be found here: http://www.uhu-profi.de/uploads/tx_ihtdatasheets/RS674_Technisches_Merkblatt_tds_hart.pdf It is in German, I couldn't find an English version. In the meantime, I found out that UHU Alleskleber consists of poly vinyl acetate with some ester als solvent. It stays more less rubbery for decades, as oposed to UHU Hart, which becomes hard and somewhat brittle. For some decades now I have been using UHU Alleskleber to glue the metal edges onto my glass-cases. It seems to be less messy than clear silicone. One problem with glue/cement in tubes is that due to the vapour pressure of the solvent it has the tendency to squirt or run out of the tube, even if you don't squeeze it. I always store my tubes with the tip upright, which largely eliminates the problem and loss of glue. Edited September 19, 2016 by wefalck Canute, mtaylor and Robin Lous 3 Quote wefalck panta rhei - Everything is in flux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDW Posted September 19, 2016 Share #7 Posted September 19, 2016 Well that is interesting. Cellulose nitrate is also an ingredient found in fuel proof model airplane dope as used for covering and finishing. It shrinks as time goes on which makes it useful as covering because it keeps the fabric tight. Canute, mtaylor and Robin Lous 3 Quote Completed Projects: USS Fletcher 1:144 Scharnhorst 1:350 USS Independence LCS-2 1:350 1:32 J7W1 Shinden Interceptor/Fighter Fairey Swordfish Mk. II 1:48 Harbor Tug Box Scale Albatros D.V 1:32 Ala-Kart 1:25 Ferrari 250 GT California Spyder 1:24 S-100 Schnellboot 1:72 Mercury Capsule and Atlas Booster BR-52 Steam Locomotive 1:35 Triumph 3 HW Motorcycle 1:9 Scale F-16XL-2 Experimental Fighter Bomber 1:48 Rafale 1:48 F-15E Strike Eagle 1:48 Petlyakov PE-2 Soviet Dive Bomber 1:48 TBM3 Avenger 1:32 1931 Cadillac 1:25 Scammell Pioneer SV2S Heavy Breakdown Tractor 1:35 M-50 Israeli Sherman 1:35 Military Wrecker 1:32 Delahaye 135 1:24 Toyota Sard Supra GT 1:24 Enzo Ferrari 1:24 1970 Baldwin Motion Camaro 1:25 1966 Ford Galaxie 500 Stock Car 1:25 American LaFrance Eagle Fire Pumper 1:25 1940 Ford Standard Coupe 1:25 VolksWagen Dragster/Dune Buggy/Street Rod 1:25 Kawasaki Ninja H2 Carbon 1:12 Porsche GT-1 Evo 1:24 Scharnhorst 1940 1:700 IJN Akitsushima Seaplane Tender 1:700 HMS Hood 1941 1:700 Prinz Eugen 1942 1:700 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lous Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share #8 Posted September 19, 2016 (edited) How a topic posted just for fun and for no purpose whatseover...can become quite interesting Cheers guys! Robin Edited September 19, 2016 by Robin Lous mtaylor, Canute and Jolley Roger 3 Quote WIP: No ships atm...sorry!🙄 Completed: Greek bireme - Dusek - scale 1:72 Louie da fly: "I think it requires a special kind of insanity to choose a galley to build a model of." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wefalck Posted September 19, 2016 Share #9 Posted September 19, 2016 You know, many of us may have had similar thoughts, but never comitted them to the WWW ... Robin Lous, Canute and mtaylor 3 Quote wefalck panta rhei - Everything is in flux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxboat Posted September 19, 2016 Share #10 Posted September 19, 2016 (edited) Cellulose nitrate is known as "nitro cellulose" in English. It was the first synthetic paint vehicle. Model T Fords were all painted with Nitro Cellulose lacquers. It also had a long run in furniture finishing. In the skilled hands of SE High Point NC US furniture experts, it could be used in many, many coats to give a beautiful warm finish. It has virtually disappeared from that application because of air pollution issues from the solvent. It is also related to gun cotton. Nitro cellulose is not UV stable and readily degrades in sunlight Edited September 19, 2016 by Jaxboat Canute and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lous Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share #11 Posted September 19, 2016 I just won't tell my sailors the ship is a floating bomb, but I'll put up a few no smoking signs Canute and mtaylor 2 Quote WIP: No ships atm...sorry!🙄 Completed: Greek bireme - Dusek - scale 1:72 Louie da fly: "I think it requires a special kind of insanity to choose a galley to build a model of." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Blarney Posted September 25, 2016 Share #12 Posted September 25, 2016 Cellulose nitrate / nitrocellulose is known as collodion in the medical world. It is also used to finish musical instruments. A solvent is ether, which is not a good thing to have inside the house. It is heavier than air and extremely volatile and a spark or flame cag ignite an explosion. You may find ether as 'starting fluid' for gasoline engines. mtaylor and Canute 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lous Posted September 26, 2016 Author Share #13 Posted September 26, 2016 Guys...keep in mind I use a tube of glue with 33 ml (35 grams) in it. I work on my build several hours each day for 5 weeks now...and that one tube of glue is still not empty. That's less than 0,7 grams of glue used per day! It's not like I'm throwing buckets of high explosives around in a careless fashion. I doubt that I, my build and my house are in grave danger, because of the use of this type of glue. Robin CDW and Canute 2 Quote WIP: No ships atm...sorry!🙄 Completed: Greek bireme - Dusek - scale 1:72 Louie da fly: "I think it requires a special kind of insanity to choose a galley to build a model of." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDW Posted September 26, 2016 Share #14 Posted September 26, 2016 Guys...keep in mind I use a tube of glue with 33 ml (35 grams) in it. I work on my build several hours each day for 5 weeks now...and that one tube of glue is still not empty. That's less than 0,7 grams of glue used per day! It's not like I'm throwing buckets of high explosives around in a careless fashion. I doubt that I, my build and my house are in grave danger, because of the use of this type of glue. Robin Lol, Robin. You know, there is always a first time for just about anything. But after all these many years/decades without any negative or harmful incidents, I am going to use whatever glue works best for me regardless of ingredients and what California thinks of it. I believe much of the outcry about the ingredients of various products are due to the idiots who abuse them. Keep in mind there are mental midgets who put these types of glues in a paper bag then huff the fumes to get high. No doubt, some of those people have died or got sick. Maybe even exploded. Robin Lous, Canute and mtaylor 3 Quote Completed Projects: USS Fletcher 1:144 Scharnhorst 1:350 USS Independence LCS-2 1:350 1:32 J7W1 Shinden Interceptor/Fighter Fairey Swordfish Mk. II 1:48 Harbor Tug Box Scale Albatros D.V 1:32 Ala-Kart 1:25 Ferrari 250 GT California Spyder 1:24 S-100 Schnellboot 1:72 Mercury Capsule and Atlas Booster BR-52 Steam Locomotive 1:35 Triumph 3 HW Motorcycle 1:9 Scale F-16XL-2 Experimental Fighter Bomber 1:48 Rafale 1:48 F-15E Strike Eagle 1:48 Petlyakov PE-2 Soviet Dive Bomber 1:48 TBM3 Avenger 1:32 1931 Cadillac 1:25 Scammell Pioneer SV2S Heavy Breakdown Tractor 1:35 M-50 Israeli Sherman 1:35 Military Wrecker 1:32 Delahaye 135 1:24 Toyota Sard Supra GT 1:24 Enzo Ferrari 1:24 1970 Baldwin Motion Camaro 1:25 1966 Ford Galaxie 500 Stock Car 1:25 American LaFrance Eagle Fire Pumper 1:25 1940 Ford Standard Coupe 1:25 VolksWagen Dragster/Dune Buggy/Street Rod 1:25 Kawasaki Ninja H2 Carbon 1:12 Porsche GT-1 Evo 1:24 Scharnhorst 1940 1:700 IJN Akitsushima Seaplane Tender 1:700 HMS Hood 1941 1:700 Prinz Eugen 1942 1:700 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Mo Posted October 10, 2016 Share #15 Posted October 10, 2016 When I think of all the "new and improved" glues I have tried, I have to laugh how I always returned to PVA or CA glue. Every foray into a glue I have made ended in disappointment. New was never better. And when I recently tired another glue I had never used, hot hide glue, I was pleasantly surprised. It pushed PVA and CA glues to the back of the line. But when you consider hide glue has been around for over 4,000 years, you just have to wonder just how advanced the ancients were. mtaylor, Robin Lous, Canute and 2 others 5 Quote Julie First and only build: Endeavour - 1934 American's Cup, UK Challenger, J-Class - Amati 1:35 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Blarney Posted October 14, 2016 Share #16 Posted October 14, 2016 HIde glue is the superglue for woodworking. i use for guitarbuilding. Another advantage of hide glue is that it does not interfere with finishes, and repairs/regluing is not difficult. Avoid Franklin Liquid Hide Glue. Old Brown glue is acceptable, but I usually use hot hide glue at 145F, and preheat the well-fitted parts. mtaylor, Julie Mo and Canute 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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