Flexament cement

[jdbondy]

Has anyone tried using a fly tying adhesive called Flexament? I am trying it on seizings that are done with synthetic fly tying thread. Since I am trying to swear off of the CA for fixing seizings, I have tried dilute white glue (doesn't bond well to synthetic thread) and flat topcoat/varnish (requires setting overnight). Flexament appears to be a possible solution. It appears to be thinned rubber cement, or at least it certainly smells that way! So far, testing a seizing made with 6/0 Unithread appears to be giving a pretty fast and durable bond.

[bluenose2]

Hello Les here. This is news to me, as I would like to have something on hand besides CA. My only concern would be the long term holding power of this adhesive. Having to go back and tighten things would be very bad. Best to go to their web site, contact and ask some questions. Let me know as I am interested.

[Ulises Victoria]

Hello JD.

Flat (matte) varnish has always been one of my favorite things to use when securing rigging knots. I honestly don't see a problem with "requires setting overnight". You tie the knot, apply the varnish and forget about it! 

[jdbondy]

The problems I am encountering using varnish as an adhesive are: 

 

1. I'm not sure how secure of a bond is created between a synthetic fly tying thread and a cotton/linen rigging line with varnish.

 

2. Since varnish has to dry overnight, I have to leave my knot gluing until the end of the work day, so I just have one cleanup after gluing multiple knots. As a result, I lose track of which knots I have tied and need to be glued up. It would be nicer to have something that can be applied when the knot is tied, bonds pretty quickly, and doesn't require cleanup.

 

I'll see what info I can find out from the manufacturer.

[Ulises Victoria]

The problems I am encountering using varnish as an adhesive are: 

 

1. I'm not sure how secure of a bond is created between a synthetic fly tying thread and a cotton/linen rigging line with varnish.

 

Strong enough. Since they are static, not working items, a minimal amount of strength is needed.

 

2. It would be nicer to have something that can be applied when the knot is tied, bonds pretty quickly, and doesn't require cleanup.

 

Hmmm.. this is exactly how I work with varnish. Never needed clean-up

 

.

[bluenose2]

Hello Les calling back. This is a case of six of one or half a dozen of the other. CA vs other 24 hr adhesives. Rigging is always a stressful time in any project. So much work in such a confined space. Whats not to like! When I screw up my courage and go for it I want to carry through to the end as quickly as possible. It's not that I don't  like rigging as it I get satisfaction from this part of the build, as it's just as important to get this right as the hull and all the other goodies that make your ship, boat or whatever. If you can wait overnight good, if you need to power through great. Sorry for the vent. Do what works for you.

[jdbondy]

Ulises, my point about cleanup was that I was typically applying the varnish with a brush, which I then have to clean up with spirits. So I was tending to keep that to the end. However, your comments have made me rethink the application process. I've started applying varnish like I do CA, with a pair of tweezers dipped in the varnish. Now, cleanup consists of wiping the tip of the tweezers with my fingers! Much easier.

 

Now I have 3 separate tweezers, one for CA, one for varnish, and one for Flexament. Each is appropriately labeled.

[Ulises Victoria]

Hello JD.

I'm glad my comments helped you a bit. I hope this make things even easier: I apply my varnish with a toothpick. The small drop that forms at the tip is usually enough. ​

 

Best regards

 

Ulises

[jdbondy]

Les, I've been in touch with the makers of Flexament, and they describe it as intended for bonding synthetic and natural fibers, with the ability to hold up in adverse conditions such as wetness and sunlight. 10-15 seconds for it to start working, and set in 1 hour.

 

I made a seizing using Unithread around some Morope, applied Flexament, and let it sit overnight. I cannot get the Morope to budge within the seizing without applying a really high amount of tension, far more than we would put on a model's rigging. 

 

For now I think my plan is to use varnish/topcoat on seizings or knots that are entirely natural fiber, and Flexament on seizings or knots that are a mix of natural and synthetic fiber. I am trying not to use CA at all, except for curing the tips of rigging line for threading purposes.

[ScottRC]

I have been using fly tying "head" cement for years.  My father in law tied flies and when he was teaching me to do it, all I thought was what a wonderful adhesive this was for seizing.   Most cements had a strong odor, but pretty much all today are oderless.  I have not tried Fixament.  

[wefalck]

'Securing' a knot with glue/varnish means that you overcome the springiness in the thread that has a tendency to unravel knots by some sort daub. This something very different from glueing two materials together. In the first case the process of knotting forms an interlocking, mechanical connection, that is not there in the second case. When your knot does not form this interlocking connection, then something is wrong with your knot. Seamen's knots are always secure.

 

I use a fast-drying clear varnish for the purpose that is very similar, in fact, to nail-varnish. The advantage of varnish is that you can loosen the knot (or belaying) again by putting a drop of solvent on it. Comes handy when you discover mistakes, or when you need to tighten/loosen something.

[Richard Griffith]

I use Flexament to secure knots.  Dilute it with their thinner.  It does have a strong oder but it does a great job without making the line brittle (like CA does).

 

It does cost more, so I also use acrylic varnish.  Your choice.                    Duff 

[S.Coleman]

I have also tried fabric glue buy with no success on having small amounts of tension. I wonder if you can get a similar product like fixement over here.

[ScottRC]

I wanted to update a recent experience I had this past few weeks.  Over the years, I used "Headly's" fly head cement, which is epoxy based and has an odor than will drop a fly a 1000 yards, has a quick cure time, and required acetone to clean up.  I dropped my jar and it broke so I went to the outdoor store to pick up another bottle and they informed me they no longer carry it.  They gave me a water based, non toxic head cement called "Loons Clear Head".  And they are correct, not a odor at all.  Better yet, I can put it in a hypo needle and apply it and then wash out the needle with hot water to reuse.  It has a slower cure time but can spray a dab of their water based solvent on the area of application and it cures almost instantly.  The epoxy based cement always had a high gloss when cured, this new cement dries dull.  I am about 70% through putting the sails on my Constitution and have used it on all my knots and seizes on the mizzen with happy results.  

[Zocane]

This site and these topics never go out of style. I am asking myself these questions in 2022, six years later, and every post is still very much needed and appreciated. I have been testing out Fly Head Cement on my seizing knots because I was tiring of CA (brittleness). And now, I can try varnish. Thank you all for your thoughts and experiences. I do not have to reinvent the seizing glue!

[Roger Pellett]

I have posted this before but here it goes again-   Old fashioned clear nail polish; not the acrylic kind but the varnish kind that comes in the little bottle with the brush in the top.  Sold in cosmetic sections of pharmacies, it’s cheap, dries very quickly and convenient.  No need to clean anything up since when you screw the lid on the brush gets dunked back into the liquid.

 

Roger

[Ulises Victoria]

I use Model Master Flat Clear Varnish with great results. 

Edited October 7, 2022 by Ulises Victoria

[allanyed]

9 hours ago, Roger Pellett said:

Old fashioned clear nail polish;

Roger,  Do you use this on synthetics, cotton, linen, or all three?  Thanks

 

Ulises,  Same question to you regarding the Master Flat Clear Varnish

 

Thank you

 

Allan

[wefalck]

As noted earlier on, old-style nail-polish is essentially the same as what is sold over here in Europe as zapon-lacquer (to protect polished metal surfaces mainly) and I use it on everything.

[Ian_Grant]

But doesn't nail polish reek like model airplane dope?

[wefalck]

Both smell very nice and fruity (amyl alcohol) 😇

[Roger Pellett]

The model that I used it on was rigged with line from my stash of “Cuttyhunk Hard Twisted Linen” line.  I used both cotton thread and unknown composition fly tying thread for serving, seizing, etc.  

 

The stuff that I have does not have a strong odor.

 

Roger

[Ulises Victoria]

7 hours ago, allanyed said:

Roger,  Do you use this on synthetics, cotton, linen, or all three?  Thanks

 

Ulises,  Same question to you regarding the Master Flat Clear Varnish

 

Thank you

 

Allan

I'm sorry I can't answer that as I don't pay too much attention to the materials of the threads I am using, but I've never had any problems with any of the materials I've used.