Le Soleil Royal by EJ_L - FINISHED - Sergal - Scale 1:77 - 1669 Version

[EJ_L]

From what I have seen they were a common item on the actual ships. Look at pictures of the real Vasa and you can see them well, pattern, size etc.. We are used to looking at images of more "modern" ships for example Victory and Constitution due to the fact that they are still present and well documented. 17th century is harder to picture as very little survives compared to 18th. In looking at the older ship designs, something to remember is that they were a rougher design. Hulls were less streamlined and bulky items such as bolts were just part of it. A necessity to hold the ship together but not important to painters of the time who were more focused on the sculptures and the overall appearance of majesty in the ship. As time moved on and building materials and practices evolved, many improvements were made and the builders were able to conceal the bolts better. Still, if you can see the surviving ships up close or can find clear pictures many bolts and nails can be seen through the paint coatings.

 

As for models, this has been more hit and miss based on the builders desire to model them. Unlike tree nails, the bolts are more pronounced and therefore easier to model. Scale is always a major factor. Too big and they look out of place, too small and whats the point? Trying to find a medium to use that will look good in scale is hard and the entire process is tedious. For example, I'm closing in on 1,000 nails so far and I'm barely half way done. I encourage it if you can find a way to make it work.

 

 

[md1400cs]

E.J.

 

Nice details -

 

Slowhand FYI  Vasa details

[EJ_L]

Thanks for posting those pictures Michael. I was going to do that myself when I got home tonight but now I can get back to building!

[md1400cs]

You're welcome  

 

Been in the land of Mezcal and Tequila for the last week   I also need to get back to the shipyard.

Promised myself last N Year's eve that I would finish by Dec 31 2017 

 

Your current project is looking very good indeed. Looking forward to following your sails adventure (:-)))

[Hubac's Historian]

The great thing about Van de Velde, the Elder, is that he often does document the fastening of the wales, among other iron fastenings, on his early portraits from the 1650s/60s.  There are several excellent portraits of post-battle, scarred Dutch ships laying in for repairs that give a fairly clear idea of the topography of a ship’s hull from this period. Later, I’ll upload a few images from my Pinterest page to show what I mean.

[Hubac's Historian]

Here is the Amstelant:

And the Eendracht:

 

 

 

 

[md1400cs]

E.J. nice updates - it's hard for me to stay current with your current build (:-)))

You are working as fast as in my old days Mach .08 ha ha

 

Cheers,

[EJ_L]

Hahaha!! Yes, this is one of my slower builds that is for certain but, I am not that upset by it as I am learning a lot more on this build as much more of it is scratch build which is causing me to think a lot more about what, when, why and how. I think that is one of the things I do like about the tedious details. They force me to slow down which in turn creates more time for me to notice and think about future aspects of the build. For example, while installing the never ending thru bolts, I have been looking at the upper deck construction and what all will need to be installed prior to fitting the next deck. Aside from the obvious canons, there are many other eyebolts, knight heads, capstan, and a variety of other rigging blocks and tackle that would be far easier to install now before they are covered up.

 

I have been making good progress on her this week. Nearly went through another 500 nails and I am thinking I should probably buy another 1,000-1,500 (they come in 500 packs) as I'm thinking that aside from the thru bolts on the wales, I may have some more use for them elsewhere on the build. Still waiting on the hobby store to replenish their supplies. Hopefully this week. Meantime I will finish up with what I have and there is plenty more to work on!

[donrobinson]

EJ, on a scale of 1-10 10 being the worst, how tedious is this? I have never done nails, bolts or tree nails on any of my builds but I am contemplating doing in on my Stefano and was just wondering before I start something I wish I hadn't.

Edited December 3, 2017 by donrobinson

[md1400cs]

E.J., 

Yes, one of the captivating things about this hobby (if not addicting) is the "want" to get better, and improve our skills. Well spoken indeed.

A very positive enterprise for time spent thinking and/or adding to our builds. A great hobby, and part of our lives.

 

Regards,

 

[Old Collingwood]

37 minutes ago, md1400cs said:

E.J., 

Yes, one of the captivating things about this hobby (if not addicting) is the "want" to get better, and improve our skills. Well spoken indeed.

A very positive enterprise for time spent thinking and/or adding to our builds. A great hobby, and part of our lives.

 

Regards,

 

Very true - this hit what I was only thinking myself about my build and builds  - how each step is a clearer step with more ability.

 

OC.

[EJ_L]

Don, I would say around 7. The process is not hard, mark out the pattern, drill the holes, insert the nails. Many aspects of rigging are far worse. It is the sheer numbers that get you. I am estimating around 1,500 nails just in the wales alone! Granted this is a huge ship so the scope varies on each model. The tree nails can become even worse as there are thousands more especially if they are shown correctly at each frame and not just at the ends of the planks like many modelers show. I have not yet made up my mind if I will show the tree nails or not. I doubt I will show them on the hull as they were rarely visible in real life anyway after painting. On La Couronne I did show them on the decks and I rather liked that look so I may do that again on S.R.. Scale also makes a difference, since if the scale of the ship is too small, the nails and bolts wouldn't look right. Looking at your Stefano I would say that it is probably big enough to model them with no problem! 

 

I recommend doing a test strip first, a scrap plank or something but either do it as 3 or 4 planks wide or close to the length of the model. This will tell you first off if you even like the way they will look on the model and secondly if the work involved is something you wish to pursue. If you hate doing it after only the test or it is not looking the way you want it then you have lost nothing.

 

. 

[Robin Lous]

Looks spectacular EJ!

I checked for my build and...yep! also!

So, I'll shamelessly steal your idea. 

 

[EJ_L]

1,000 nails have been installed and I still see a lot missing so onward and upward! While logging my time I realized that on November 29th I reached one year of building Soleil Royal and as of tonight I just marked 530 hours! With no other builds currently in the shipyard, although plans and ideas are appearing more and more in my head and even few on paper , but as none have come to fruition yet I will be able to continue a steady amount of time towards the build.

 

So here is a quick update. As always more to follow and thanks for looking in!

[zappto]

Ship coming along nicely, i like hull color, beautiful build!

[popeye the sailor]

great job EJ!   

[EJ_L]

Finally made it down to the hobby store this afternoon for more nails and more drill bits. I also picked up a scalpel style knife as I have been wanting to try them out to compare to the standard Exact-o that I've always had. I already like the feel of the handle better as it is flat compared to the rounded Exact-o but full judgement will have to wait till I have logged some serious hours.

 

This week has not been idle though while I have waited on more nails. I decided to start building the stern cabin windows and that has taken up many hours so far. I've also ran into yet another issue that has come up from modding the kit. The kit was designed for a 5 window layout which I am changing to 6 to better match the paintings of her. My hope was to use the laser cut window panes so as not to have to make them all from scratch only the ones for the doors. So after modifying the aft panel to accommodate the new layout and installing them in their new arrangement, I found out that the stern of the model is not wide enough for a 6 window configuration using the provided panes. I can get 6 sections but the door ways are narrower than the window spacing and also, there should be decorative mullions in between the windows but fitting those will be somewhat problematic as well. 

 

So, now I am at that critical junction of deciding what to do. I am sticking with the 6 window layout but do I rebuild all the panes to a smaller size to allow for the equal spaces plus mullions or, do I fudge the designs a bit and make it work as best I can? Every part of me says to rebuild them correctly even though that will be a huge pain the rear, the scotch is telling me to rebuild them and even the Admiral commented on the unevenness of the spacing and if she noticed it then it must be a problem as usually I only hear, "Looks good dear!" So I guess I know what I will be doing but apparently I just needed to see it spoken out loud.

 

Anyway, here are the pictures of what I have done so far. I did turn the lights on to see how that would look through the windows and so far that is a decision I am very happy with. This will be getting posted again after the changes are made. Enjoy, and as always thanks for the comments, likes and just looking in!   

[testazyk]

That's a tough one!  If you don't do the rebuild, that's the only thing you will see when you look at the ship in the coming years.  So my vote is to do the rebuilt.

 

I think I asked you this before, but how are you going to fill in the window panes?

[Hubac's Historian]

Hi EJ - this is the part of your build that I have been waiting for.  Given your modifications, to date, I think it is absolutely necessary to take the extra time to create a custom window layout.  Without the additional space for the sixth window, the only option is to reduce their width.  I feel your pain, though, as on my own build I am still hoping to avoid having to create new window frames for my six-window layout.  If you so choose to, a new layout will also afford you the opportunity to present the unique window shape of each tier, as they are each slightly different.  The effort won’t be wasted here.

Edited December 11, 2017 by Hubac'sHistorian

[EJ_L]

Rebuilding in process. This is going to be tough but in the end I will be happier and prouder knowing I did all the work from scratch. 

[Old Collingwood]

I found this drawing on the net and wondered if you could get away with bringing the width of the windows across, possibly allowing for all six,  it looks like the windows might extend further across.?

 

OC.

 

[popeye the sailor]

that's the outer frame you've built so far?  all I would have suggested,  is to bring in the two top windows and make them even with the lower windows.   those two windows looked out of sync with the hull line.  OC's picture is exactly what I'm talking about......the way they all line up.  the frame you made will do just that,  but it will be a lot more work........looks good though,  but check out the starboard side......the line slants inward at the top.

[EJ_L]

Thanks OC! I do have that picture which is the basis of my design but that one is one of the cleanest renderings I have seen. Will have to print that out especially if I can get it to print out in scale!

 

I've pushed out my frames as far as I can without having the glass inside the bulkheads. With the double hull planking, I lost 2mm of space which granted does not sound like a lot but in this case it is huge! As with many other problems I have run into in trying to kit bash this model, I have relied too much on the framing being what I needed it to be. For the amount of changes I intended to do to the structure, I should have resigned myself to doing a full scratch build. So since I cannot widen the hull like I need to, I think I have figured out how to make everything fit and while a couple of details may have to be sacrificed due to spacing constraints, I think I can still do her justice.

[EJ_L]

New windows are going in. With the new layout I was not able to reuse any of the laser cut pieces for this model so they are going in the scrap bin for a later day. Now all the windows will be completely scratch. Slowly but steadily they are coming together. 

[Hubac's Historian]

You’re off to an excellent start, there, EJ!  I love the shaping of the window top.

Edited December 14, 2017 by Hubac'sHistorian

[EJ_L]

Thanks Marc! I can now finally justify buying all those rotary carving bits a year ago. I knew I would want to have them for this build at some point!

[donrobinson]

That is amazing work EJ, they looks so much better than the other ones. Well worth the extra effort and time

[BLACK VIKING]

Totally stunning work EJ , those windows look brilliant 

 

Martyn

[Baker]

Looks great EJ 

nice work 

[Old Collingwood]

They are looking great E J   really worked out making them fit yourself rather than using the template.

 

OC.