USS Constitution by JSGerson - Model Shipways Kit No. MS2040

[JSGerson]

much appreciated, Gregg

[kmart]

Jon....   

Wow,, Just Wow.  I took a bit of Hiatus from my Connie build.  Come back to find you've been going crazy with your awesome build.  Progressed well past where I'm at.     

It will take me awhile  just to go through your log and catch up.

I'm working on my gun deck now.    Just started assembling  the guns.  So really interested in you log entries  on that section.

 

KenM 

[GGibson]

2 minutes ago, kmart said:

Come back to find you've been going crazy with your awesome build.  Progressed well past where I'm at.

 

Hi Ken!  I've been following Jon's build, as well,, as I have been seriously considering adding the Constitution to my shipyard.  Have thought the same thing on my current Bluenose build, where others have long passed my "build status", and have to keep reminding myself that it's not a race to the finish!  

 

I will need to follow your build log, too! 👍

[JSGerson]

Hi Ken. long time, no post. It's great to learn you're back at the shipyard. I look forward to your forthcoming posts. For such physically small items, there are a lot of details to juggle when making all those gun carriages. Just remember, it's a hobby, so have fun.

 

Gregg, you are correct, it's not a race. I've been working on this model since 2017 and was researching it even earlier. I still haven't seen the finish line!

 

Jon

[kmart]

Gregg,   Definity encourage you to join the Connie Club.  The ship itself as a subject is a work of art.  The Model Expo kit is great.  And there are multiple build logs as great reference material.  Jon's is a great log.   Also look up  usedtosail  finished build log.  Its  effectively a full blown  practicum.  

But its not for the faint of heart and  definitely not a race.    I also started my build in 2017.  At my current rate.. I'll need more than a few years to complete.    Having Jon at roughly the same build phase has been great encouragement to keep me progressing and a great reference/ideas..   We might have leap frogged each other a few times. 🙂

 

Yup Jon... I cant believe its been almost a year since my last post.    But the break was needed, and I'm glad to  to get back to the shipyard.  I'll post my progress on my guns shortly.   I'm not super detailing them as you did.   I'm just using the stock ME canons/carriages.  (Not the dummy from the kit but the full cannon set.)     I came up with a different way to  modify  the carriages to make them the proper height.   Haven't decided how much rigging ill give them yet.

 

[JSGerson]

Ken, A lot of builders rigs their guns minimally for aesthetics. Things look nice when they are neat. I want the detail, so by the time I'm finished with the gun deck, I expect it to be an OSHA nightmare 😁. How those guys back then worked around all those ropes, chains, clutter, noise, smoke, etc. and still were able to conduct ship warfare effectively enough to never lose a battle is amazing. 

 

Jon

[GGibson]

53 minutes ago, JSGerson said:

...I expect it to be an OSHA nightmare...

 

Shouldn't have read this comment with a mouthful of beverage... 🤣🤣🤣 Classsic!

[Der Alte Rentner]

On 12/13/2023 at 8:46 PM, kmart said:

Also look up  usedtosail  finished build log.  Its  effectively a full blown  practicum.  

Among finished build logs to consult for inspiration and insight, don't forget XKEN

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/11935-uss-constitution-by-xken-model-shipways-scale-1768/

 

[GGibson]

2 hours ago, Der Alte Rentner said:

Among finished build logs to consult for inspiration and insight, don't forget XKEN...

 

 

 

Yep!  In addition to usedtosail and xken, I also have Modeler12's build log in my list of finished Constitution logs... as well as all of your current build logs to look at. 

 

Plenty of inspiration and insight!

 

 

 

[Der Alte Rentner]

6 hours ago, GGibson said:

Yep!  In addition to usedtosail and xken, I also have Modeler12's build log in my list of finished Constitution logs... as well as all of your current build logs to look at. 

Oh my!  How did I miss that one!  Adding it to my list of references.  Thanks for the tip

[Der Alte Rentner]

On 10/17/2023 at 9:30 AM, Geoff Matson said:

Here is one of my favorite pictures looking through the aft gun ports down along the cannons on both sides.

 

Hi Geoff,

 

I'm responding to your post to JBGibson, where you showed that stunning closeup of the transom.

 

 

 

I've looked at your build log in the past and was chagrinned to see that you began posting with the rigging.  I would love to see how you progressed from the beginning to the point you started posting.

 

Am I just not aware of where to look?  Or is there no documentation of your earlier work on the Constitution?  

 

Best,

 

Peter

 

 

[Geoff Matson]

Hello Peter, I love your build and look forward to your progress. I hate to age my progress, but I have been at this on and off for over 10 years. If I can answer any questions for you just ask. I used Bob Hunt's Practicum and could not have got this far without it.I also added a lot of my own way to solving some of the construction problems. 

 

This rigging is really challenging. I have made all my rigging line with the Byrnes Ropewalk. this way it gave ma a lot latitude on the rope sizes. I used about 8 different thread manufactures sizes so with single strand, three strand and nine strand I have about 27 different sizes in black and tan. This way I feel the rigging will look more realistic instead of just using the supplied rigging line. 

 

Right now I am a little hung up on the beatnik shrouds. But I thinkI have it figured out and will be posting some pictures soon. 

Happy Modeling and thanks for your interest

[Der Alte Rentner]

20 hours ago, Geoff Matson said:

Hello Peter, I love your build and look forward to your progress. I hate to age my progress, but I have been at this on and off for over 10 years. If I can answer any questions for you just ask. I used Bob Hunt's Practicum and could not have got this far without it.I also added a lot of my own way to solving some of the construction problems. 

 

Thanks Geoff,

 

It will be some time before I get to the rigging, but having your build log to draw inspiration and techniques from will be a blessing when I finally get to that stage of the build - hopefully in less than 10 years.. 😉

[Geoff Matson]

Just remember, a post a day a fence a year. Just be patient and take your time. The Conny is so full of many mini builds. The cannon, ships boats, all the deck furniture, masts. yards, and rigging just to name a few. Just have fun. 

[JSGerson]

Moving aft, the gun rigs and recoil lines for three sets of guns after the dummy guns had to be fabricated. The three gun sets of fully rigged guns were glued into position with their recoil ropes secured to the bulwark with a small nail through two eyebolts. I initially planned to trim the nails so that they would be shorter and have a blunt end to more closely resemble the actual pin. This proved to be very difficult to use when attempting to thread them through the eyebolts and looped recoil rope. I just used the plain nail utilizing the pointed end to facilitate the installation to the bulwark. You would need a sharp eye to notice any difference.

[JSGerson]

Then the next items to be installed were the anchor line bits and the stove with the stove tray which were previously fabricated. These were installed after dry fitting their final position and installing the spar deck beam that passes over the stove (not shown).

[JSGerson]

At this point, As I promised, the gun deck is becoming quite cluttered. I wanted the ship to look more like a working ship than one on display for the “Brass”, so no pretty coiled rope spirals.

[JSGerson]

Finally, using the US Navy plan No. 022-06-2011 - Diagonal Rider & Knee Layout Revised 2011 (a minor revision of 27772, 1996) for the elevation view and No, 17636 Spar Deck Planking Removed 1926 for the plan view, I fabricated and added diagonal knees to the bulwarks around the gun ports of the rigged guns. Additionally, the three vertical stanchions around the stove were also fabricated from 0.032” music wire (for rigidity) and installed. Before I can move aft to the next section and while the gun deck is still accessible, I want to create spare deck structure to ensure the foremast will have a 3° rake when it is installed. As I have it presently planned, this portion of the spar deck is expected to be planked.IMG_1479.HEIC

[GGibson]

Looks sharp, Jon.  A very busy deck!  🏆👍

[Geoff Matson]

Looking great. Lot's of thought and planning Jon

[Der Alte Rentner]

21 hours ago, JSGerson said:

At this point, As I promised, the gun deck is becoming quite cluttered. I wanted the ship to look more like a working ship than one on display for the “Brass”, so no pretty coiled rope spirals.

I can't speak for any of the Captains of the Constitution in its prime, but I have spent quite a bit of time aboard tall ships as voyage crew for ocean passages.  Every Captain I sailed under insisted on a neat and orderly deck.  Of course none of them had gun decks, but all lines on the decks were neatly coiled.  

 

P.S.  What song are you working on?

Edited January 23 by Der Alte Rentner
added P.S.

[JSGerson]

I am not a sailor. I have zero experience on a large sailing ship, especially on a vintage one. Obviously, I have boarded the USS Constitution and all the lines were neatly tucked away for the safety of the public. The only working commissioned naval vessel I have been on believe it or not was a Soviet destroyer on a good will tour in the mid 1970's in Boston Harbor. You didn't see too much, but that ship was as neat as a pin because it was on public display. In pictures of vintage sailing fishing vessels I've seen, there were rope lines all over the place. I assume once the boat was returning to port with its load of fish, they made everything "ship shape."

 

The guns on my model are at the ready, in firing positions so I can't imagine the crew taking the effort to make things visually neat like spiraling rope coils, but probably workable neat. That's why the ropes are simply coiled and in position to be used for firing and reloading the guns. This set up is my best guess and you may be totally correct and I'm totally wrong.

 

Jon

[RossR]

I like what you’re doing with your approach.  I am taking a similar approach on my current build.  

Edited January 24 by RossR

[Der Alte Rentner]

21 hours ago, JSGerson said:

and you may be totally correct and I'm totally wrong.

not very likely.  😁

[JSGerson]

To fabricate the fore mast opening in the spar deck, two structural members were installed between bulkhead Beams C and D offset equally from the centerline by the width of the fore mast dowel. The dowel, sitting in its seat on the gun deck. restrained in its side to side motion, was now perfectly vertical to the beam of the model. Next, a piece of scrap wood’s edge was cut to 3° from the vertical. The scrap wood was now a 3° mast gauge. Placed on the beams, the dowel was pivoted aft back against the gauge and a cross beam glued into place to restrain the dowel’s aft movement. The dowel still has a little forward movement to facilitate removal and then its final placement. Once the foremast is seated again and leaned against the cross beam, it will at the proper rake of 3°.

 

It is to be noted, that the position of the foremast on my model, is not exactly in the same position as shown on the MS plans. The MS plans have the fore mast seated in the C-bulkhead just under the spar deck planking. My fore mast is completely behind the bulkhead C and obviously seated in the gun deck’s extended keel. Why the slight aft position shift, I don’t know.

 

And just for grins and giggles I took a photo with the bowsprit and foremast dowels to get a sense of size of the model. That sucker is biiiigggg!

[Unegawahya]

On 3/31/2017 at 1:27 PM, JSGerson said:

General Thoughts

Having the actual plans from the US Navy for the ships boats is wonderful and luxurious. Usually when making a model I must rely totally on the kit to provide me with the all the details because I normally don’t have the real thing to look at. My Rattlesnake is an example. With the actual plans, I can see how the kit’s plans adjusted for scale and ease of building. With the build logs, I can also see what other builders added, modified, or eliminated.

I know I’ve been on a break for a wile, but I was wondering if you could help me? I seem to be unable to find any plans anywhere of the 36’ pinace. I’ve checked my US Navy plans and the modelers resource from the Constitution museum. It’s almost like they’ve been removed for some reason.

[JSGerson]

Unegawahya, finding the USS Constitution plans is an effort on the Museum's site, because it's not obvious; why, I don't know. So here is the link:

 

https://ussconstitutionmuseum.org/discover-learn/modeler-resources/

 

For the 36' Pinnace you need plans: 21746, 21747, 22350, 22357

 

edit: I just made a liar out of myself, when I checked the museum's site, they don't have these plans. So, I've attached them to this post.

 

The location of the plans has moved over the years. I originally I down loaded them for free from a US Navy site, now gone. Then the museum sold them on a CD (at least 2 versions that I know about) and finally provided the free download on the link above. If there is any US Navy plan I referenced in my build log that you can't find, let me know, because the plans available to the public has also varied on the years. 

 

Jon

Edited February 8 by JSGerson

[GGibson]

6 minutes ago, JSGerson said:

...finding the USS Constitution plans is an effort on the Museum's site, because it's not obvious; why, I don't know. So here is the link...

 

Agreed, Jon! Although I am not (yet) building the Constitution, I have looked at that page before and it was difficult to discern everything one would need.  Nice of you to point out specifics! 👍

[JSGerson]

And one more correction, 22357 is the 28 footer. The plan number should be 23405 attach to this post

[Unegawahya]

5 hours ago, JSGerson said:

Unegawahya, finding the USS Constitution plans is an effort on the Museum's site, because it's not obvious; why, I don't know. So here is the link:

 

https://ussconstitutionmuseum.org/discover-learn/modeler-resources/

 

For the 36' Pinnace you need plans: 21746, 21747, 22350, 22357

 

edit: I just made a liar out of myself, when I checked the museum's site, they don't have these plans. So, I've attached them to this post.

 

The location of the plans has moved over the years. I originally I down loaded them for free from a US Navy site, now gone. Then the museum sold them on a CD (at least 2 versions that I know about) and finally provided the free download on the link above. If there is any US Navy plan I referenced in my build log that you can't find, let me know, because the plans available to the public has also varied on the years. 

 

Jon

Thank you so much for all the help! I thought I was going crazy. I looked every where for these. I'm starting to think that they where removed for some reason, because the museum didn't have them and I didn't get them with the download the I got from the Navy Museum.

After I get the 28' Whaleboat done I'm going to get started making a Jig file for this one too!

28' GIg Whaleboat.pdf