Venetian Round Ship c. 13th century by woodrat - FINISHED - 1:32 scale - fully framed

[Louie da fly]

Hope I'm in time to add this picture which might be of help - It's by Agnolo Gaddi of Florence, dated 1393-96, and depicts one of St Nicholas' miracles - saving a ship by calming a storm. Some very interesting details. 

 

And now a little joke for those who know a bit about the original Saint Nicholas  . . .

 

Steven

[woodrat]

I don't think it makes one iota of difference!

Dick

[Louie da fly]

[woodrat]

I have rigged the starboard quarter rudder using a system which I believe is shown in the Veneziano painting of the translatio of St Mark. The only way I could do this was to use a double pulley on the "uphaul" and with the ropes going under the throughbeam around the rudder and back up to the pulleys. The rudder hoist I have left as single pulleys. With the rudder in the down position the hoist is loose and the uphaul tight and pulling the rudder against the throughbeam.

 

Dick

[Louie da fly]

Beautiful work, Dick.

 

Steven

[druxey]

Fascinating arrangement, Dick. About how many degrees of rudder rotation does this allow?

[woodrat]

33 minutes ago, druxey said:

Fascinating arrangement, Dick. About how many degrees of rudder rotation does this allow?

Thanks, Druxey and Steven. The tackle as presently rigged allows an arc of 60 deg. That is 30 degrees in and 30 degrees out. This all that is required to steer since having a foil cross-sectioned rudder at angles of attack greater than 30 degrees leads to turbulence and a probable stall at 45 degrees (Gillmer and Johnson 1982 , Introduction to Naval Architecture. Quoted in L Mott: The Development of the Rudder.)

Cheers

Dick

[John Allen]

3 hours ago, woodrat said:

With the rudder in the down position the hoist is loose and the uphaul tight and pulling the rudder against the throughbeam.

Dick,

 

Beautiful build, what made me stare for a long time was the rigging of the rudder that's some real eye candy well done.

[druxey]

Thanks, Dick. Very informative!

[cog]

Dick,

 

The rudder looks marvelous. I can't make chocolate from that picture (a Dutch expression when you do not know how to do something), so I presume you have a better image, or a far better eye than I have.

[Mark Pearse]

Hi Dick

 

I hadn't seen this build till now - that's beautiful work & a fascinating subject for a model. Was the 14C period a time when Venice was a regional sea power?

 

Mark

[woodrat]

22 hours ago, Mark Pearse said:

 Was the 14C period a time when Venice was a regional sea power?

 

Mark

Thanks, Mark. In 1204 the blind Doge Dandolo, conspiring with his treacherous crusader partners, laid siege to, overcame and sacked with sickening slaughter the tottering Byzantine capital of Constantinople. Scuttling back to Venice with their loot (including the 4 bronze horses still seen on the facade of Sr Marks basilica) the venetians set to work to control the trading routes. The Byzantine empire was dismembered and Venice greedily clutched new possessions to her chest including the Peloponnese peninsula and Crete. Venice now controlled trade through the Adriatic, the Eastern Mediterranean, through the Dardanelles, into the Black Sea and as far as the Crimea.

During the 14th century Venice was competing with its deadly rival the Genoese republic for control of the trading routes in the Mediterranean.

After some scrappy battles, Venice was victorious, became pre-eminent in trade until superseded in the mid 15th century. Venice traded even as far as Northern Europe with its long range merchant galleys. Progressive loss of prestige and degeneration reduced the venetian republic to a shell until the latest bully Napoleon Buonaparte squashed Venice with his thumb in 1797.

 

Here are some pics of the port quarter rudder in the up position. Note that the hoist is tight and the "uphaul" loose.

 

Cheers

Dick

[druxey]

Thank you, Dick. The last two images are very educational; much appreciated.

[Louie da fly]

A very nice exposition of how Venice came to have such a wide-ranging Empire. The only thing I'd add is that Venice, having helped destroy Europe's bulwark against the expanding influence of the Ottoman Turks, lost its own "Empire" to them in the following centuries. Poetic justice?  

 

Steven

[Mark Pearse]

thank you - richly described indeed

[woodrat]

Shown here is the final addition to the quarter rudder mounting. This is a sliding rod (the dark rod ) which can slide in and out to lock the rudder against the lower through-beam. When it is required to raise the rudder, the sliding rod is slid back in. I believe this can be seen on the mounting of the Black Sea "round ship"

Dick

 

Slid out

Slid in

This is capture from the Black Sea video showing the quarter rudders from above and it shows the sliding rod as well:

Edited May 27, 2019 by woodrat

[Nikiforos]

On 3/30/2019 at 10:21 AM, Louie da fly said:

Hope I'm in time to add this picture which might be of help - It's by Agnolo Gaddi of Florence, dated 1393-96, and depicts one of St Nicholas' miracles - saving a ship by calming a storm. Some very interesting details. 

 

And now a little joke for those who know a bit about the original Saint Nicholas  . . .

 

Steven

Ha. Ecumenical meme of the year, Steven...  it's i of course

 

Interesting to see another Genovese flag, this time in a venetian context thread. They (Genoa) granted use of their flag to anyone and everylne who might pay -theories are out there it's the origin of the English "St George' ensign. Hmm... Anyway, schadenfreude.

 

Fascinating subject matter, gorgeous images.

[Louie da fly]

Beautiful work, Dick. I stand amazed at the thoroughness of your research and your ability to translate it into real-world modelling.

 

Steven

[woodrat]

I couldn't help it! The wood was crying out for moisture. So I slavered on lots of orange oil and the wood said "thank you". The hull is largely complete. I now will attend to the deck framing, hatchways and machinery. This is contentious as no deck framing has survived from Contarina I and the I am likely to fall off the perch before I  get answers from the Black Sea!!

Anyhoo, the next question is whether to fully plank or partially plank the deck or not at all. Decision, decisions!

Btw, thanks for the likes and general support for what is a fairly exotic subject

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

cheers

Dick

[mtaylor]

Dick,

I'd say partially plank it like you did the hull.  It sounds like deck fittings will be a "best guess" type of thing.  Really looks good even as it sits now.

[Louie da fly]

Deciding on the deck features is a bit of a poser, which I'm currently puzzling over with my own build. No surviving deck = nothing to base the reconstruction on = mostly guesswork.

 

I agree with Mark, though. A partially planked deck would simultaneously show the structure and the finished look of the deck. However, things which are on the centre line of the deck, such as the windlass, might require a different approach.

 

It's looking very good, Dick. Adding the planking has yet again changed the look considerably. Are you going to completely plank one side?

 

Steven

 

 

[Binho]

Looking beautiful Dick! 

 

The Black Sea documentary available here had HD closeups of some deck furniture I believe. Would it be at all helpful if I took a few screenshots for you? 

[woodrat]

22 hours ago, Binho said:

Looking beautiful Dick! 

 

The Black Sea documentary available here had HD closeups of some deck furniture I believe. Would it be at all helpful if I took a few screenshots for you? 

Thanks, Binho. As I cant purchase the documentary in Oz, that would be most kind.

 

Thanks also Mark and Steven. I do not plan to cover up any more of the hull framing.  Partial deck plank it is. I have a tentative plan for the deck. It is largely driven by the position of the mast partners

Dick

Edited May 19, 2019 by woodrat

[Binho]

Ok! Here you go - first there was a good HD turnaround of the 3D model they made, but also some good shots of some of the visible deck features. Looks like one hatch by the foremast and some bitts (is that the correct term?). Also captured a shot of the aftercastle area showing what looks like a space underneath. You can also see a fallen rail with some posts that might have held some lines? I'm still very green with this ship stuff, so I'll leave it to you to interpret!

 

 

I've been experimenting with photogrammetry recently and out of curiosity I'm going to try extracting some frames and seeing if I can create my own 3D models of parts of this ship. Should by high enough quality images to get a rough model. If I get anything decent I'll post a link to it so you can have a look around as well.

 

[druxey]

Some fascinating details in those images, Binho. Thank you for sharing these.

[Louie da fly]

That's very worthwhile information, Binho. I couldn't remember when this ship was dated to - I remembered there was a Roman vessel in there somewhere, but on looking this one up it turns out to be from the 13th or 14th century, so it's very good not only for Woodrat's model, but for those others of us also interested in ships of this period. 

 

An interesting thing in my view is the poop superstructure - the framework doesn't seem to have been squared off at all but appears to be just bits of tree trunk with the bark taken off. I don't think this is just an apparency caused by the accumulation of sediment, because the frames certainly look squared off.

 

Steven

[woodrat]

Thanks for those pics, Binho. Most Useful. The round throughbeams have also puzzled me. The vessel is said to be a "round ship" although not as "round" as what people conceived a round ship to be.

 

The Contarina I wreck is about the same period as the Black Sea vessel but regional differences are important. Just look at the vast range of different types of hull and rig extant in the 20th century in the Arabian Sea.

 

One of the unusual findings in the Contarina ship was the cut off of top timbers level with the deck in the mid section of the ship.

Combined with this was the slotted timbers at each end of the gap. This seems to represent a removable section of bulwark. Is this to facilitate cargo loading or to allow sweeps to be deployed? No-one knows but I favour a combination of the two. In any case, I have included this feature in my model.

The section of bulwark could be lifted by two men and slid into position

 

Here is the rake of the main (forward) mast

here is the rake of the mizzen (rear) mast

Cheers

Dick

 

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by woodrat

[woodrat]

Have installed the mast partners, main hatch and bitts.

 

 

 

Dick

[cog]

Dick,

 

Just wondering, couldn't the hatch's cover be made out of multiple single planks, instead of those larger cumbersome hatches?

[woodrat]

1 hour ago, cog said:

Dick,

 

Just wondering, couldn't the hatch's cover be made out of multiple single planks, instead of those larger cumbersome hatches?

I suppose so. All is supposition until I get some answer from the archaeologists. I have been unable to find pictures of hatches from contemporary sources.

Dick