Acrylic paint tips and techniques

[DaveBaxt]

1 hour ago, wefalck said:

'Vallejo model air' mostly these days, but also the German brand Schmincke for basic colours. Vallejo has a huge range of colours (https://acrylicosvallejo.com/en/category/model-air-en/). They have colour charts on their (national) Web-sites, but as usual they are not terribly faithful in the colour reproduction for technical reasons. Vallejo branched out into modeller supplies from being a reputable Spanish manufacturer of artists' paints.

Thank you Wefalek for a quick response. I can see there is quite a number of different colours for Airbrushing and wonder if anyone has tried any of these colours on a hull to look like a weathered copper bottom. Something in that I am thinking of trying on my next model.

This is a great thread by the way and in someway explaining what is and what is not possible with or without the correct procedures. Hopefully one day I will become proficent in both hand and airbrushing. 

Edited January 20, 2023 by DaveBaxt

[DaveBaxt]

Further to my previous post. I have searched through the Vallego range of colours for the airbrush (Vellego air) although I have been able to find Copper metalic in this. I have been unable to find Verdigris green for the airbrush. However there is an Acrylic in Verdigris glaze https://www.everythingairbrush.com/product/vallejo-model-color-verdigris-glaze-17ml/

The effect I am trying to achieve using a spray gun is this.

https://www.house-painting-info.com/articles/verdigris-copper-finish/#.Y8qwS33P3y8

             Sorry if this appears I have hyjacked this thread but just thought we wanted to keep everything  about painting in one place. 

I am assuming as the verdigris glaze is an ordinary acrylic and it will require thinners.https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vallejo-71161-Airbrush-Thinner-200ml/dp/B07R92M8KJ/ref=asc_df_B07R92M8KJ/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=640942265265&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16352605636914171057&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1007202&hvtargid=pla-923378725103&psc=1 and I assume this is the same make so should be fine although not sure about the biege?There is an alternative so could try this

https://www.everythingairbrush.com/product/vallejo-airbrush-cleaner-85-ml/As I am a total novice using an airbrush , I will also need a airbrush cleaning kit as well as some airbrush cleaning fluid. So again I have gone with Vallejo ( although perhaps this is not neccessary but thought same cleaner as the paint I am using.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vallejo-Model-Air-Airbrush-Cleaner/dp/B002X6BNYQ/ref=pd_lpo_2?pd_rd_w=LHOnk&content-id=amzn1.sym.172092ab-c479-4d61-89c2-c4779d5cf2b4&pf_rd_p=172092ab-c479-4d61-89c2-c4779d5cf2b4&pf_rd_r=4PX6AJ4FWX06V0BB69X6&pd_rd_wg=a6Qss&pd_rd_r=63afbd4d-d27a-4ffe-bacd-3edd8a791bc9&pd_rd_i=B002X6BNYQ&psc=1

There is probably a lot more that I will need over time but hopefully this will get me started and give me something to aim at and get me practicing.

I will also need a cleaning kit and came across one by Harder and Steener ( same make as my airbrush) which has a number of different sizes brushes, seals and a reamer. This kit is not cheap but wonder if it could be worth it in the long run. It comes with an airbrush holder too.

          I do apologise once again for going off the theme somewhat and thank you for your help and patience to everyone who has contributed to this thread. Best regards Dave

Edited January 20, 2023 by DaveBaxt

[wefalck]

Indeed, Vallejo's ranges of different paint formulations (for brushing or for air-brushing) do not have the same range of colours. It is, however, possible to thin their other paint formulations for air-brushing. In this case one should use their recommended thinner(s), as other thinners could break down the emulsions on which these paints are based.

 

I only have a very small air-brush with a 1 cc reservoir and found this sufficient for my relatively small projects. A small reservoir prevents you from wasting paint. As the paint ducts are simple and as I wash out the air-brush immediately after use under running water, I never had the need to use any special cleaning fluids or devices. I don't use it very often, so it had stayed with me now for nearly 40 years ...

 

On pre-thinned paints vs. paint-tubes: it is correct, that compared to the amount of pigment you get for your money, they are expensive. However, me personally, I prefer to pay a premium price and have something ready to use after some thorough shaking. I do not waste any paint in mixing vessels etc. as the bottles have nozzles or pipettes from which just a few drops of paint are transferred into the air-brush. The pre-thinned paints seem to have a suprisingly long shelf-life. Some bottles I had for more than 30 years and they still work.

 

 

[DaveBaxt]

1 hour ago, wefalck said:

Indeed, Vallejo's ranges of different paint formulations (for brushing or for air-brushing) do not have the same range of colours. It is, however, possible to thin their other paint formulations for air-brushing. In this case one should use their recommended thinner(s), as other thinners could break down the emulsions on which these paints are based.

 

I only have a very small air-brush with a 1 cc reservoir and found this sufficient for my relatively small projects. A small reservoir prevents you from wasting paint. As the paint ducts are simple and as I wash out the air-brush immediately after use under running water, I never had the need to use any special cleaning fluids or devices. I don't use it very often, so it had stayed with me now for nearly 40 years ...

 

On pre-thinned paints vs. paint-tubes: it is correct, that compared to the amount of pigment you get for your money, they are expensive. However, me personally, I prefer to pay a premium price and have something ready to use after some thorough shaking. I do not waste any paint in mixing vessels etc. as the bottles have nozzles or pipettes from which just a few drops of paint are transferred into the air-brush. The pre-thinned paints seem to have a suprisingly long shelf-life. Some bottles I had for more than 30 years and they still work.

 

 

All great news and saved me a few quid. I also see Vallejo do a bottle of improver and assume this to increase the length of time the paint stays wet but not sure how this works and wether or not this can be achieved with thinners or not. I am now assuming that you don,t need a cleaning kit as well or is that wishfull thinking? Thank you again for your help.

[wefalck]

As I said, I never used any cleaning kits, but that may depend on your air-brush and how diligent you are with cleaning. Acrylics dry very fast, so as soon as you don't get an even spray pattern, you should rinse the air-brush and begin again. For rinsing, the air-brush needs to be taken apart as per instructions. Take care not to bend or dull the needle - I usually wipe it gently between the fingers. Careful re-insert it without poking it against any part of the mechanism.

 

I gather they sell 'flow improvers' - this probably is some sort of surfactant adapted to the composition of the paint that will reduce the surface tension of it, which has two effects, it aids in forming very fine droplets and it facilitates the adherence to the paint on say plastic or metal surfaces.

 

[thibaultron]

You may also want to get Badger's Regdab, or what ever their name is spelled backwards. It is a solution you dip your needle in to help keep the paint from drying on it. Dip the needle and wipe it off. It will leave a film that lasts for a while.

[kurtvd19]

Correct Ron.  I always wipe the needle with Regdab - it is simply a needle lube and each mfg has their own - when I reinsert the needle after cleaning.  I put a drop of  it on a clean rag and drag the needle through it and then lightly wipe the needle before inserting it into the brush.  Always wipe towards the tip - you don't want to stick yourself with the extremely sharp point - and you might bend the point too.

[Bob Cleek]

For serious cleaning of acrylics on airbrushes, I've always found Goof Off  paint splatter remover and Goof Off adhesive remover to be excellent cleaning solvents. It is designed for cleaning up paint splatters on full scale water-based painting jobs.  It removes dried acrylic very effectively.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Get the strong stuff. It works well. Just dampen a folded up paper towel with some Goof Off and wipe off the paint splatters. It's specially formulated to remove dried water-based paint. It is really effective on air brush innards.

 

 

 

 

[DaveBaxt]

Thank you Ron and Kurt for another excellent tip. Also Wefalk regarding the Vellajo  air paints .After searching through a few videos regarding these acrylics one or two people have been have issues regarding spray patterns and clogging oog the nozzles etc and how to prevent this happening. One person reckons it is to do with shaking the bottle in the correct manner and the other is to do with the correct mixture of improver/thinner/paint and air pressure. I thought at the time that this defeats the object of Vallego Air. He also suggests its to do with the type of bottlleI am not suggesting there is anything wrong with the paint but perhaps there are other issues a foot here  At the end of the day I suppose I will have to try these paints for myself as I am sure your recomendation is a sound one. Thank you again for your input and I look forward to your thoughts on this if any.

            Another question if I may regarding the the airbrush holders with the pots, I am assuming these are also used for cleaning and wondering if thinners were inside the pot would prevent the paint from drying at the tip whilst storage between coats. I am just thinking when airbrushing a large area such as a hull, then something like this would be needed, especially when using acryiics.

          

[wefalck]

I think one has to try for oneself with one's equipment. There are so many contradictory recommendations around, that one gets easily confused and discouraged ...

[Bob Cleek]

1 hour ago, DaveBaxt said:

I am assuming... I was wondering if thinners were inside the pot would prevent the paint from drying at the tip whilst storage between coats. I am just thinking when airbrushing a large area such as a hull, then something like this would be needed, especially when using acrylics.

There's no shortcut. Any airbrush must be cleaned immediately after each use and it is much easier to clean if cleaned before the spraying medium hardens. This may be as simple as running some water and then cleaning solvent (e.g. Goof Off) through the brush until there is no color visible in the solvent, indicating the airbrush is completely free of paint. This can usually be accomplished in about a minute. 

 

If your paint is properly conditioned to dry quickly, you should be able to airbrush a hull with a good amount of paint going "round and round." When you thin water-based paint with water, you must expect it will take longer to dry (cure) because water doesn't evaporate all that quickly. Thinning acrylics which can be thinned with alcohol or, if not, then with a proprietary thinner, will result in thinner paint that dries quickly because the alcohol or proprietary thinner evaporates much faster than water.

 

3 hours ago, wefalck said:

I think one has to try for oneself with one's equipment. There are so many contradictory recommendations around, that one gets easily confused and discouraged ...

This is excellent advice. You can ask a million questions in internet forums, but the internet isn't always the best place to source information. (This forum is remarkably accurate in most instances, however.) Experience begins when you start doing it. Get an airbrush and play with it until you feel comfortable. If you run into a problem doing that, you will be able to ask a specific question instead of repeatedly asking hypothetical questions about problems you'll never encounter in real life. There are tons of airbrushing tutorial videos on YouTube. Look for those posted by the airbrush and paint manufacturers as these are the best produced and most accurate. As Nike says, "Just do it!"  

 

See: vallejocolors - YouTube

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DaveBaxt]

Sorry if this is the incorrect place to add these questions but I am interrested to know what peoples thoughts are on the following.

Ok I have now had a go with my new Harder and Steenbeck airbrush with 0.2 nozzle and air pressure at 20 psi using Tamiya acryic paint and seemed to go ok with only one minor issue. thats for another time. At some stage I would like to try airbrushing brass and other metals using vallejo primers.So next up I thought I would try and see how I got on and after giving the bottle a thoroughly good shakes I then mixed the primer with thinners at the ratio of 2 to 1( same as with the Tamiya acrylic paint). I also added a drop of flow improver and  a drop of retarder  and then give it a go. Lets say this is not the best diciscion I have ever made. The tip/nozzle immediately blocked without any primer coming out at all. I was unable to clear the tip using an airbrush cleaner/thinners so ended up stripping the airbrush down completely to clean it. Eventually i got back to where I started. Once again I tried the airbrush using the Tamiya acrylic and once again it worked perfectly.

                My  lessons learnt when using an airbrush. Don,t make any assumptions when using a new product for the first time, especially when using a  different medium and do as much Research as possible before trying. I have since learned that when using Vvallejo primers they are not supposed to be mixed with anything and should be sprayed neat. However I did find the primer quite viscous and have also leaned it can be mixed with water.and nothing else. I have also learned that I could use a larger nozzle than 0.2( I have the facility to use a larger size nozzle on my airbrushso not a problem if needed)Another solution has also been recomended and that is to crank up the pressure to 25 to 30 psi. 

                  Also I would like to know what preperation ship modellers are using to brass or other metals prior to priming the surface before using an  acrylic based paint.I always find that the paint is easily scraped off afterwards?

Once again I would like to thank you for your help and patience.Best regards Dave

                

[thibaultron]

Were you using Tamiya Thinner? The Tamiya paints are alcohol based, the Vallejo paints are water based, which should not be thinned with alcohol. The alcohol causes them the dry rapidly, at best, and can cause the paint to fail. Alcohol is one of the things you use to clean your airbrush when using Vallejo. Get some of Vallejo thinner (preferred), or use distilled water.

[Hsae]

Also I would like to know what preperation ship modellers are using to brass or other metals prior to priming the surface before using an  acrylic based paint.I always find that the paint is easily scraped off afterwards?
 

I always prepare the brass with steel wool or #400 sand paper, after that I clean it with acetone, or alcohol.

It is important that you don’t have any grease for instance from your fingers on the brass anymore.

 

Hermann

Edited February 2, 2023 by Hsae

[kurtvd19]

I use Badger's STYNYLREZ primers before the finish paint but often just use the STYNYLREZ as both primer and finish coat.  These primers come in 18 colors.

 

Prep of metal parts is a dip in heated Sparex  (I use a small crock pot as it will not boil liquids and it is IMPORTANT to not boil Sparex) for several minutes with a thorough rinse of plain water and then I air dry the parts without touching the parts with bare hands.  I use exam gloves w/o powder.  When thoroughly dry I prime the parts with STYNYLREZ and let them dry thoroughly.

 

The STYNYLREZ name is to show it is usable on Polystyrene, nylon and resin.  But it also works great on metals and wood.  If thinned use distilled water.  Also, Badger recommends STYNYLREZ a point .05 needle (or larger).

[DaveBaxt]

3 hours ago, Hsae said:

Also I would like to know what preperation ship modellers are using to brass or other metals prior to priming the surface before using an  acrylic based paint.I always find that the paint is easily scraped off afterwards?
 

I always prepare the brass with steel wool or #400 sand paper, after that I clean it with acetone, or alcohol.

It is important that you don’t have any fat on the brass anymore.

 

Hermann

Sounds like a decent approach. Thank you

[Toolmaker]

Sometimes it appears that nothing is straightforward in modelling. It’s often not hard to find conflicting advice.

When I built the Flower Class Corvette using all the David Parkins “Great Little Ships” sets the two most important aspects  for me, were to be able to solder and to be able to keep the paint on the brass. After all, most of the build is brass.

 

 

After much research I used the 2 pack etch from this company.

 

https://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/products/paint-products/primers-and-solvents/primersandvarnish/etch/60pq31

 

You can see that not all the instructions match other advice. I made my decision based on the company generally supplying into the model engineering sector and large scale train builders.

 

I realise I am referencing a UK based supplier but I’m sure similar suppliers are abundant in the US and other countries.

 

I hope this adds to the discussion.

 

Thank you

Paul

[DaveBaxt]

5 hours ago, thibaultron said:

Were you using Tamiya Thinner? The Tamiya paints are alcohol based, the Vallejo paints are water based, which should not be thinned with alcohol. The alcohol causes them the dry rapidly, at best, and can cause the paint to fail. Alcohol is one of the things you use to clean your airbrush when using Vallejo. Get some of Vallejo thinner (preferred), or use distilled water.

IThank you for your input but I am now a little confused as I was under the impression that acrylics do require alcohol to be thinned as well as distilled water as explained to me in this thread

thread 

However I do appreciate that it is probably better to use the same make thinners as their paint. I have also come across a few videos on how to make your own thinners with the afore mentioned ingredients such as flow improver and retarder. All of which is used in  home made Acrylic thinners. Please correct me if you think I am wrong as this is beginning to get more and more confusing. I have been informed that Vallejo primer does not require any thinners at all and can be used straight from the bottle and yet some say thin with water. I apologize if it apears I am contradicting you in anyway. Please forgive me as I am only just starting out in this part of the hobby. Hopefully it will become obvious to me in time and thank you for your input. Best regards Dave

Edited February 1, 2023 by DaveBaxt

[wefalck]

Acrylic paints are complex emulsions with either water, or alcohol or a mixture of both as solvents. They may also contain surfactants as emulsifiers. Emulsions are very delicate things and can easily break down when using the wrong solvents, resulting in curdling with resulting clogging of the airbrush for instance. In such cases they also do not form the cross-linked network of acrylic molecules that form the paint layer.

 

It appears that Vallejo uses a relatively simple system that can be diluted with water, dito. for the German Schmincke paints. I do not have experience with products of other manufacturers.

[Bob Cleek]

4 hours ago, DaveBaxt said:

Thank you for your input but I am now a little confused as I was under the impression that acrylics do require alcohol to be thinned as well as distilled water as explained to me in this thread

The moral of the story with acrylic coatings is "Ya gotta dance with the girl ya brought ." All acrylic coatings are capable of producing a good scale finish with an airbrush. Some claim to be useable in an airbrush right out of the bottle. Depending on many variables, including the size of the airbrush needle, "your mileage may vary." I'd risk saying that at some point or another, any brand of acrylic coating is going to need some conditioning, even something as simple as thinning it a bit if it's thickened in the bottle over time. As explained, some thin with water, some with alcohol, and some with both. There are a lot of YouTube videos addressing conditioning various brands of acrylic modeling coatings and they are a good place to start researching the brand(s) of paint you intend to use. When you find a brand that you prefer, for whatever reason, stick with it and your experience working with that brand of acrylic coating will grow as you become accustomed to it. There comes a point where you just have to experiment and develop the experience to use the brand you choose. 

[Roger Pellett]

The last model that I painted was a scratch built 1:32 scale rigged Longboat.  I needed three major colors; Dark Brown for the outside of the hull, a dark red, and a color called “drab” I also needed an off white for below the waterline.  I decided to paint the model with acrylic paints that I mixed myself.

 

I started with quality acrylic colors, sold in tubes at a local craft store.  A large cheap tube bought from Walmart had particles of pigment  so coarsely ground to be unusable.  I squeezed a blob of each color needed onto a piece of glass and mixed them with a palette knife, adjusting the shade until it looked right.  I spooned the mixed color into an airbrush jar and added some acrylic  Matt Medium.  I thinned the mix with ordinary tap water.  I have a single action Badger Airbrush that sprayed the paint without a problem.  Given all of the problems with commercially mixed colors posted above, this approach worked well for me.

 

The model that I am building now has large areas of soldered brass.  It will be painted with Floquil paints.

 

Roger

[Bob Cleek]

55 minutes ago, Roger Pellett said:

The model that I am building now has large areas of soldered brass.  It will be painted with Floquil paints.

 

Lucky you! My stash of Floquil has dwindled to nothing at this point. I loved everything about Floquil, including the aroma, except for the Dio-sol thinner. It was pretty costly and I ran out of it before I ran out of the paint I had on hand. I never had any problem using it. I still think it's the best modeling paint ever. I mix my own from tubed artists' oils these days, but I still miss Floquil. I see where some are trying to sell old stock on eBay for as much as sixty bucks a bottle!  What made Floquil so good was the incredible fineness of their ground pigments.

 

For those who never had the opportunity to work with Floquil see: Floquil Paint | Paul Budzik

 

I've heard that Tru-Color paint, a relatively new brand, claims to be the replacement for Floquil, in terms of accurate colors, at least. I've yet to try it. It's not widely distributed in hobby shops... then again, nothing is widely distributed in brick and mortar hobby shops anymore. See: Tru-Color Paint | When You Need Tru-Color (trucolorpaint.com)

 

 

[Canute]

Bob, Tru-Color used Acetone as a thinner. I tried out a rattle can of their paint on a bare styrene kit I've been working on. Not thinking, I sprayed and the old plastic looked like it was orange peel. The newer Evergreen did not. I had read that Tru-Color needed to go over primed resin, but I'd say prime any plastics also. I love the color ranges; they've added naval colors to their railroad, aircraft and armor lines

[GrandpaPhil]

I seal metal and non-styrene plastic with acrylic sealant prior to priming and painting.

 

Mod-Podge works very well for that too, but if you use Mod-Podge for anything with a lot of detail, thin it down.

[Bob Cleek]

On 2/2/2023 at 8:16 AM, Canute said:

Tru-Color used Acetone as a thinner.

Acetone will sure do that to styrene and many other plastics. No bout a doubt it. Lacquer thinners, tolulene, xylene, and similar solvents will melt many plastics also. Most all "hot" solvent-based modeling paints are designed for use on wood and metal surfaces. Applications on many plastics will require a suitable primer.

 

Thanks on the review of Tru-Color paints, too!

[wefalck]

19 hours ago, GrandpaPhil said:

I seal metal and non-styrene plastic with acrylic sealant prior to priming and painting.

 

Mod-Podge works very well for that too, but if you use Mod-Podge for anything with a lot of detail, thin it down.

Why would you apply an acrylic 'sealant' on metal - sealing metal against what ? Normally, metal primers are there to increase the adhesion of paint to metal surfaces, for instance by slightly etching them.

 

I can understand the use of a primer on certain plastics, if you want to continue with organic solvent-based paints, but acrylic 'sealants' are probably based on a polar solvent, such as water, which do not show very good adhesion to non-polar surfaces that most plastics have. So what are the advantages of using acrylic 'sealants' on plastics?

 

[GrandpaPhil]

It is for acrylic paint and primer adhesion.

 

Depending on the material, the paint will flake off, or just not stick in the first place, even if cleaned properly to remove oils or mold release agents prior to priming.

 

Sealing with an acrylic sealant gives the primer something to adhere to.

Edited March 13, 2023 by GrandpaPhil

[wefalck]

But the primer is the thing that normally provides the 'grip'. I don't understand why you want a 'sealer' and a 'primer'. If you use the acrylics as a primer, you can go on painting on these straightaway.

[GrandpaPhil]

Many acrylic primers, at least that are easily available in the States, will not adhere to non-polystyrene plastic models or brass detail parts.

[wefalck]

Yes, acrylic primers may not adhere very well to 'non-polar' surfaces, such as metals or most plastics (with the exception of acrylics/Plexiglas/Perspex). Solvent-base primers do better here.

 

We have over in Europe also pure acrylic-solutions, without anything added, that are supposed to be good primers for metals. I rarely prime, as it is not really needed for static models, so I don't know, wether is any advantage in those pure acrylic solutions.