Zeehaen 1639 by flying_dutchman2 - 1:37.5 - Dutch Fluit of Explorer Abel J. Tasman

[flying_dutchman2]

Taffrail onstled and excess planking removed. 

Taffrail from the inside. 

Rudder dry fitted with tape. 

Dry fit rudder and tiller. 

Marcus 

[Ab Hoving]

Seems to me that the operation was a success. Maybe you should try to get the opening a bit rounder, so that it can be finished with carvings. Not really complicated.

Well done, Marcus.

[flying_dutchman2]

Thanks for the help, Ab. 

Will make the opening a bit rounder and have started on the carvings. It is the one exercise I am not very good at. So I make many of the same items and pick the best. I have 9 samples of the fish. 

Marcus 

[flying_dutchman2]

The following question has probably been asked numerous times. 

 

If my ship is in X scale what is the max legth and width of my hull and deck planks?

 

I have looked in numerous books i possess, went to several ship model sites and read several articles. There is not a clear cut answer or math formula available. 

 

In "Planking techniques for model ship builders" by "Donald Dressel" on pages 70 to 81 there is a discussion about some basic information. 

 

Example. 

On an 1/8th inch scale model planks should not exceed 3 inches. 

On a 1/4 inch scale model the planks are 6 inches in length. 

 

Also in general planks were between 4.6 mtr to 6.1 mtr (15' to 20') in real life. 

 

So if my model is in a scale of 1 cm - 37.5 cm, what will the length of my planks be for the model? 

 

Thank you in advance. 

Marcus 

[mtaylor]

Full size would be anywhere between 30 and 40 feet if I recall correctly.  It depended on the wood available and that was for French and English ships of the 1700's.   So probably about the same for yours.  Ab would be your expert on this.

[Ab Hoving]

Excellent question Marcus,

In Witsen's book there is list of parts needed to build a 120 feet long fluit. He specifies the planking needed as 4 1/2 for every strake for this length. That means that every plank is about 27 feet, which is roughly 7,50 m. I don't see any reason why that should be different for deck planks. Don't forget that the butts of the planks overlap each other for the width of three frames, which is more than a meter.

[Ab Hoving]

Here is a picture of the butts. It is from a 90 feet long wreck (E81) from 1660.

[Pingu57]

Marcus, very nice work sofar, but if you are going to make this buts in every plank, then i think you know what to do in your spare time.😇🙂

 

Kind regards  Peter.

ps. forgive me if i made any spelling or grammatical errors, i am better in Dutch

Edited April 11, 2020 by Pingu57

[flying_dutchman2]

26 minutes ago, Pingu57 said:

Marcus, very nice work sofar, but if you are going to make this buts in every plank, then i think you know what to do in your spare time.😇🙂

 

Kind regards  Peter.

ps. forgive me if i made any spelling or grammatical errors, i am better in Dutch

Peter, 

Your English is fine not to worry. 

 

I am doing the butts on every plank. I practiced making these butts while building the Utrecht and the Boyer. 

Marcus 

[flying_dutchman2]

Ab, 

I will look in Witsen's book and thank you for the suggested numbers. 

 

I am a bit embarrassed by the next question (and I should not be), 

What is the length of my planks in centimeters or inches for my model if the scale is 1:37.5? 

 

Do I divide 37.5 into something? 

 

Thanks 

Marcus 

 

Mark, 

Thank you as well for the measurements. 

 

Marcus 

Edited April 11, 2020 by flying_dutchman2
.

[Ab Hoving]

If your planks are going to be 7,5 meters in a scale of 1/37,5 you have to divide 750 cm by 37,5, which is 20 cm. The butts should be a littler bit over 2,5 cm long.

It's elementary, my dear Watson...:-)

 

By the way, the list of ship's parts I was referring to is only in the Dutch version of my book (page 296), not in the English one.

Edited April 12, 2020 by Ab Hoving

[Jean-Pierre]

By the way, I think a flute was by no means a prestigious ship.  Her building would most certainly be done with restricted budgets.  So they would most probably try and use as much as possible of the available trees.  Therefore they would accept the decks to be made of planks of various widths, and this can be seen on many contemporary replicas (Batavia, for instance).  Now for obvious reasons, it is easier for a model wood supplier or model maker to offer all planks at standard widths (often too large!).  It is also easier for the model builder to have all planks at the same width.

The length of planks, I suppose, would be defined by the necessity to have all butts fixed into bulkheads rather than have a standardized length.  While 7,50 m certainly makes sense, I think that shorter planks would not have been discarded, and longer ones when possible would not be cut shorter.  Any opinion?

One last point about planking.  I noticed on various ships (ex.  Hermione),  paintings (carrack by Botticelli, if I remember well) that planks often were not a set of parallels running fore and aft, but that they were set to follow the ship's side where possible.  I confess that this is what I did on my 'fluitschip'.

[flying_dutchman2]

Ab, 

Been reading about Dutch measurements on Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_units_of_measurement#Voet

and have two questions. 

 

In post #186 you said and I quote "He specifies the planking needed as 4 1/2 for every strake for this length. That means that every plank is about 27 feet, which is roughly 7,50 m." 

 

1.     4 1/2 what? 

2.     What formula did you use to get 7,50 meter from 27 feet? 

 

Thank you 

Marcus 

[Ab Hoving]

Not really complicated. The ship is 120 feet. Over that distance 4 1/2 planks are needed to go from fore to aft (of course you get away with  shorter planks because you don't have to cover the entire 120 feet, but that is all marginal). So 120 divided bij 4 1/2 is 26, 6 feet, which equals 7,75 meters. Of course these are not specific measurements, just estimations with a wide margin. 

Clear?

[Roger Pellett]

Somewhere I read that one of the Dutch Shipyards’ competitive advantages was the early availability of wind powered sawmills to produce sawn planks vs sawing them by hand over a saw pit.  Their lumber was also imported from the Rhine and the Baltic.  I would, therefore, not think that these vessels were built from inferior lumber.

 

Roger

[flying_dutchman2]

2 hours ago, Ab Hoving said:

Clear?

Yes, Clear. Thank you for all of that. 😁

Marcus 

[flying_dutchman2]

1 hour ago, Roger Pellett said:

Somewhere I read that one of the Dutch Shipyards’ competitive advantages was the early availability of wind powered sawmills to produce sawn planks vs sawing them by hand over a saw pit.  Their lumber was also imported from the Rhine and the Baltic.  I would, therefore, not think that these vessels were built from inferior lumber.

 

Roger

Roger, 

Wind powered sawmills was a Dutch invention and you are correct about the wood. 

The Dutch had special fluits called "Houthaalders" which means wood haulers and they went to the Baltic to get wood. The taffrail could be opened and wood would be slipped in. 

Marcus 

[flying_dutchman2]

Observation. 

My Zeehaen needs 4 - 20 cm planks to cover one strake from stem to stern. 

If you plank with straight butts, top ruler, then 4 planks of 20cm long would cover 1 strake. 

If you plank with with Dutch version of butts, bottom ruler, then 4 planks will not cover 1 strake. You need more. 

That would be 4 - 1/2 planks.

If a plank is 20 cm long and your Dutch butts are 2.5 cm each end, the full width of the plank is less then 20 cm long

 

Now if the plank is 20 cm long and the 2 butts are 2.5 cm long then 2 x 2.5 + 20 = 25 cm long plank. This is wrong. 

 

Below I made various templates to form the butts. Top right a rectangular piece of brass of 2.5 cm long and two 90 degree edges on each end. Will need to sharpen one long edge so it is easier to cut the wood. 

Top left razor blade cut from 4 cm to 2.5 cm. On the hull I would overlap 2 pieces and make the cut so the butts would fit well. Bottom ruler just shows how the butts fit. 

Non of my models have all the same looking butts. I tried several kinds. On the fluit I will do all Dutch versions of butts 

Is there another word for the butts? 

 

Marcus 

Edited April 13, 2020 by flying_dutchman2
Spelling

[flying_dutchman2]

Working on the bow area. Building it up and figuring out how to anchor the bowsprite in that area. 

 

For me, this ship is difficult to built. It is the ultimate challenge for me and I will finish her. As I said before maybe I should have built something easier before doing the fluit.

Anyway, the steps I follow in my head from keel to flags is at times a bit overwhelming. Like the Dutch shipwright who didn't write anything down while building a ship, it was all in his head. I am doing something similar, I am not taking any notes like some modelers do. 

 

Marcus 

[flying_dutchman2]

Worked on the bow most of the day. Figuring and creating a bowsprite holder.

Strengthening the deck. 

Glued deck in place.

 

Used card to make a template of where the bowsprite goes. 

With a hand drill, drilled a hole through the bowsprite, deck and part of the wood. The drill bit kept it all in place while i could draw the lines for the holder. 

 

The area where the bowsprite goes into the ship, is there a name for that area? 

Bowsprite holder. 

Dry fit planking and bowsprite. 

 

Once i have planked that area and made a hole in it, I can slide the bowsprite with some glue into the holder. 

 

Marcus 

[Omega1234]

Hi Marcus

 

Wow!  I’ve just caught up with your Build Log and I’m not disappointed.  That’s one really heck of a job you’re doing.  A brave re-do of the framing, has paid off handsomely.  She definitely has a very shapely and curvy hull, that’s for sure.

 

All the best and stay safe and healthy.

 

Cheers

 

Patrick

Edited April 19, 2020 by Omega1234

[flying_dutchman2]

Thank you for all the likes and Patrick, thank you for the compliment. 

 

Finishing up on the location of where the bowsprite goes into its holder and the little deck located at the tip of the stem. 

Started working on the bowsprite panel. Cut a piece of veneer by 0.5mm wider than the actual location of the panel so it is both a tight fit and slightly bowed or curved. Started paneling the veneer with 5mm wide cherry strips. 

I still need to raise the wall from hull by 4mm. So then it is even with the other side. 

Bowsprite panel can be removed for easy adding 2 catheads squares, 1 gunprt and 3 steps. 

Once the glue dried the paneling was marked for the catheads and gunport. 

Tomorrow the 2 catheads squares will be removed. 

Marcus 

Edited April 23, 2020 by flying_dutchman2
Sp

[flying_dutchman2]

Thank you for all the likes. 

 

Preparing the second layer of cherry planking. Most of the planks will be 20 cm long with a Dutch scarph joint on each side. There will also be smaller lengths. 

 

Put the planks in some water as they will cut better without splitting. Once the scarphs are cut the planks will be dried. 

Top plank is to show what the scarphs look like when cut. 

Middle plank is to show when the scarphs are together. 

Bottom plank being cut to make a scarph. 

Close up from a scarph being created. 

 

I will be creating joints on about 80 planks.  Not all joints will be created now, some will be made when I plank the ship. 

Marcus 

[Baker]

Great idea, thanks

 

[Ab Hoving]

Very smart idea, but I have some doubts. In real life not a single plank in a ship is straight. How will you follow the lines with straight planks?

[flying_dutchman2]

1 hour ago, Ab Hoving said:

Very smart idea, but I have some doubts. In real life not a single plank in a ship is straight. How will you follow the lines with straight planks?

When the time comes to plank the second layer, the planks will be soaked again for easier bending and following the lines. 

Marcus 

[Jean-Pierre]

Marcus, 

you are a honest modeller but you should learn to cheat a little:  in my opinion it is much easier to use full length planks whenever possible, and afterwards, to indent the joints. Planks will no doubt need some lateral bending on your ship: difficult to get a fluid bend with shot planks with butt joints.  Also if you wet the planks, consider that they may shrink when drying, thus opening some joints.  On my model, I cut all 4 (or 5?) mm wide planks in 2 lengthwise, which gave a still acceptable plank width, and I used an Amati plank bender to give the dry planks their intricate shape. Adding the joints is then a very simple task: the planks will of course fit perfectly.

 

Happy modelling

 

Jean-Pierre

[YankeeD]

Marcus, when doing the planking and scarphs on my ship I found that each scarph-joint was different due to the bending etc of the planks.

Maybe that is also something that Ab means by his comments?

 

I also had a mould but needed to sand each scarph afterwards for a nice, flush fitting.

[flying_dutchman2]

2 hours ago, Jean-Pierre said:

Marcus, 

you are a honest modeller but you should learn to cheat a little:  in my opinion it is much easier to use full length planks whenever possible, and afterwards, to indent the joints. 

Jean-Pierre

Jean-Pierre, 

I used full length planks on my Boyer and indented them at certain lengths. This time I want to try to use 20cm lengths and fit the scaphs as I go along. 

 

 

2 hours ago, YankeeD said:

Marcus, when doing the planking and scarphs on my ship I found that each scarph-joint was different due to the bending etc of the planks.

Maybe that is also something that Ab means by his comments?

 

I also had a mould but needed to sand each scarph afterwards for a nice, flush fitting.

Hans, 

I expect the scarph joints to be different while following the curvature of the ship. 

 

Marcus 

[Ab Hoving]

For the time being you get the benefit of the doubt. If this really works it would be a fantastic system. But how to deal with ending planks in the bow and extra planks in the stern? Like here:

You really got my attention, Marcus.