HMS Victory 1805 by DarkAngel - Corel - 1/98

[DarkAngel]

I have just ordered my first wooden ship online, an old dusty H.M.S. Victory SM23 Corel kit that has been unopened sitting on a shelf for a few years and is finding a new home with me. So I'm cleaning out my rolltop desk, researching like mad and building up a collection of build blogs and images of the real ship.

 

I plan on tweaking the model with details to make it look more like the real thing and I thought I would try using coloured wood stains in yellow and black to bring out the wood grain on the hull around the cannon sections.

 

I also would like to try some wood carving to add some details and may even buy a mini lathe for wood turning. I think the Caldercraft decorations for this ship are awesome so will be adding their figurehead.

 

So if anyone wants to contribute any advice or comments to this build, you are more than welcome to do so and any input will be much appreciated.

 

Regards,

 

Marcus

Edited June 11, 2019 by DarkAngel

[EJ_L]

My advice is read ahead. Look through the instructions and drawings, parts and learn how they all go together. There are many details that do not always install in the order you think they might or are best left off till later for safety and access. This especially applies to rigging components. Reading through similar builds is a great way to spot many of these and I am glad to see you are doing so.

 

Most importantly, have fun! You are in for a long build with this ship. Just remember that it is all for fun and for yourself. We will be here with encouragement, ideas and motivation to help guide and keep you moving. I'm gonna pull up my chair, grab some popcorn and settle in. Looking forward to sharing in your journey! 🍿

[DarkAngel]

Thanks, and welcome aboard.

 

The life jacket is under your seat and the life boats are fully stocked with scotch whiskey and rum.

[DarkAngel]

Ok here's my first question.

 

Regarding glue, adhesives... for the deck planking, has anyone used black polyurethane. That would look great in the cracks between the deck planks... it's a bit sticky and messy.

 

Also I took a look at the real deck in pics and it appears the deck bows and is not dead level. I was thinking, maybe that was designed to stop the cannon balls rolling all over the deck. They would roll back to the cannon if the ship was level... and maybe the slight elevation also helps to roll the cannons back in place once they have fired.

 

To achieve this slight bowing, I thought this could be undertaken at the planking stage. That is working from a level base then raising up the middle slightly with black polyurethane adhesive and then laying the planks ontop of that when sticky pressing lightly to squish a bit of caulking between each plank. Once it has cured it dries like rubber and a sharp blade can be used to remove any excess and scrape the wood for a nice finish.

 

Has anyone tried polyurethane adhesive this way ?  

[mtaylor]

There's easier ways to simulate the caulking than something messy...  Some run a Sharpie pen down one side of the plank and on one endSharpie's don't bleed when wet from glue, etc.). If you use the Sharpie on all sides, the caulking will look too wide. Others use some thin, black paper.  And then there's the white glue with black pigment mixed into it.  I've tried all three and I'm partial to the Sharpie pen. 

 

The deck is high in the center due to the scuppers being on sides for water drainage more than anything else.  With the model at the scale it is, the curve probably wouldn't be noticeable.  As for the cannons, they really didn't roll that easily which is why they needed the tackle to re-position the gun after firing.

[EJ_L]

I am partial to a color pencil for the caulking lines myself. It takes a little more effort, but I like the more subtle caulk lines it produces and can be easily removed with a little sanding if you get it where you don't want it.

 

The curvature of the deck, or camber, as Mark said is primarily for water drainage. I do not think I would worry too much about it at your scale. Chances are that the cut bulkheads will already have a slight curve to them to simulate it but if they do not, I wouldn't worry too much over it. 

 

I have not built this particular kit of Victory but I believe that you should have false decks which are the wood substrate that you install over the bulkheads and then plank over. If this is the case, and you want the camber, you can easily take a piece of scrap wood, approx. 1mm thick, the same width as the bulkheads and sand down the ends to form a curve then install on the bulkhead. When you lay your false deck, it will conform to the shape and you have your camber. It should be rather subtle so if it looks like your sailors need mountain climbing gear, the curve is too steep.  

 

By the way, if you do not have any, I suggest buying some scrap wood, bass or similar species, that can be used for a multitude of fillers and supports that will be needed. Much of that can typically be found in common hobby stores or online. Kits never seem to have enough of that type of material. The first area you will want to have it for is at the bow. Depending upon what the kit plans, you will need to install filler blocks to round out the bow. The first space is always a must and a lot of people will infill the second and even third spaces as well. This will go a long way to helping make those planking bends around the bow smoother and easier.

[DarkAngel]

Thanks EJ

 

You've given me some things to add to my to do list, I like the wedge thing. Much smarter than the polyurethane adhesive I was thinking about.

 

Pencil lines... hmmm... I think I'll try the different caulking methods that have been suggested and see what works best for me.

 

I like the idea of polyurethane because the rubbery caulking if done thin enough would look good... so I think I'll try that too and post some pics of the results in a mock up.

 

The model has hardwood fillers in the bow section and the stern which shape the entire front and rear sections. I haven't worked with Balsa wood for years. Back in the day there used to be balsawood aeroplane kits in two pieces to assemble and fly

 

edit: Bass wood... hmmm not sure if I can get anything like that here locally.

Edited June 11, 2019 by DarkAngel

[mtaylor]

I think basswood is called lime wood in many places.

[DarkAngel]

Does anyone have any basic tools they would recommend for me on my first build ?

[mtaylor]

I would suggest going here:  http://modelshipworldforum.com/ship-modeling-articles-and-downloads.php   and look at the Materials and Tools sections.  This area (the Article Database) has a lot of good information and also the most overlooked section.

[Sea Hoss]

Good choice, it will definitely keep your brain working! There are a fleet of "Victory's" here... Be prepared to purchase a large tool box and work bench which I'm certain you will fill with tools you may never even heard of yet... but it is fun!

[Katsumoto]

Congratulations with this beautifull kit and ship. I wouldn’t have picked this as a first model. Too complex and also you picked a nice but a bit unfriendly manufacturer Corel looking at the instruction manual and drawings.

however, It’s up to you. I’ll hope you’ll manage and have the endurance to pull it off. Many people before you started with a Victory as a first timer but didn’t make it. I’ll hope you do. The pressure is on. 😬🙂

Good luck and just build, make mistakes and learn along the way. Also, have fun most importantly! 😉

 

Peter

[amateur]

With respect to glue: you will soon discover that 'easy' works best.

so, don't use glues that are not made for the purpose....

besides, at your scale, rubbery seams between deckplanks are way out of scale: you get a striped deck. (But perhaps you are after that). Caulking seams (as well as the wooden props over the nails) are only centimeters wide n reallife, so at scale 1:100..    paper, black thread, etc are all over scaled. The sharpie will deliver wat you want: the suggestion of seams.

With respectto tools: buy as you need them. Don't be tempted to stuff your room with elaborated tools (unless you are after that  )

 

Jan

[DarkAngel]

Did I mention I bought this model for AUD$250... including postage, unopened and not used. I can't wait to get my package in the mail and then we'll see if I turn out to be a genius or a madman... or maybe both in the long run :)

 

I'm going to try and source some extra strips of lime wood aka bass wood here in Australia.

 

Thanks everyone for joining into this build blog with advice, it's greatly appreciated.

 

Hands up who has built the HMS Victory by Corel before ? 

 

 

[EJ_L]

I've not built the one by Corel. I built a plastic kit of her by Heller years ago. A wooden Victory is on my wish list just a ways down it for now as I am focusing mostly on French ships. I have built La Couronne by Corel so I am familiar with the quirks of that manufacturer. Corel, like many of the long standing model ship manufacturers, makes great kits, however they are not always as accurate to the real ship as we would like. If you stick to what they have given you, you will end up with a beautiful looking model, if not historically accurate.

 

I would highly recommend though, (and I would say this to any model from any manufacturer) find additional resources to use as well. A book on rigging practices will aid you immensely. James Lees' The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War, 1625-1860 and George Biddlecombe's The Art of Rigging Jump to mind. Rigging is where almost all of the kits fail in their instructions. These resources help to fill that gap and are useful on many projects not just one specific build.

[DarkAngel]

Thanks EJ

 

You know another ship I'd like to build is the HMS Unicorn from TinTin... 

The HMS Unicorn by Corel looks nothing like this... it only has 1 row of cannons and a smaller hull.

 

If I purchased the HMS Unicorn by Corel, I think I'd use the bulkheads off the HMS Victory to modify the hull and add to the build for the cabins at the bow of the ship. I like Tintin, and I would probably display the ship with Tintin imagery.

 

Edited June 12, 2019 by DarkAngel

[ccoyle]

2 hours ago, DarkAngel said:

HMS Unicorn from TinTin

A worthy subject!

[amateur]

Tintin is French, La Licorne is a French ship of the line, not an english frigate.

She is loosely based on Le Soleil Royal.

 

Jan

 

[DarkAngel]

Hi Jan, thanks for the info, I really like the le Soleil Royal, it's probably the Tintin ship for me

 

I read the info on Wikipedia about the 1776 HMS Unicorn that was captured by the French and rebranded the La Licorne until it was recaptured back by the english and returned to HMS Unicorn. However I haven't really researched the subject further.

 

Maybe we could start a new thread about the HMS Unicorn 1776 or La Licorne and discuss it further 

 

Quote

Wikipedia 

 

Eleven ships of the Royal Navy have borne the name HMS Unicorn, after the mythological creature, the unicorn:

• HMS Unicorn (1544) was a 36-gun ship captured from Scotland in 1544 and sold in 1555.
• HMS Unicorn (1634) was a 56-gun ship launched in 1634 and sold in 1687.
• HMS Unicorn (1665) (or Little Unicorn) was an 18-gun fire ship originally in Dutch service as the Eenhoorn. She was captured in 1665 and expended on 4 June 1666, on the fourth day of the Four Days' Battle.^[1]
• HMS Unicorn (1666) was a 6-gun purchased in 1666 and sunk as a blockship at Chatham on 11 June 1667, together with five other vessels, in a futile attempt to block the Dutch from advancing up the River Medway.^[2]
• HMS Unicorn (1748) was a 28-gun sixth rate launched in 1748 and broken up in 1771.
• HMS Unicorn (1776) was a 20-gun post ship launched in 1776. The French frigate Andromaque captured her^[3] on 4 October 1780^[4] took her into service as La Licorne. HMS Resource recaptured her in April 1781. The Royal Navy took her back into service as Unicorn Prize; she was broken up at Deptford in 1787.
• HMS Unicorn (1782) was a 36-gun fifth rate launched in 1782. She was renamed HMS Thalia in 1783 and was broken up in 1814.
• HMS Unicorn (1794) was a 32-gun fifth rate launched in 1794 and broken up in 1815.
• HMS Unicorn (1824) is a Leda-class frigate, launched in 1824 and converted to a powder hulk in 1860. She was a Royal Naval Reserve drill ship from 1873. She was renamed Unicorn II in 1913 and Cressy from 1941 until 1959. She was handed over to a preservation society in 1968 and is preserved in Dundee as a museum ship.

 

Edited June 13, 2019 by DarkAngel

[Dan Vadas]

On 6/12/2019 at 8:08 PM, DarkAngel said:

Hands up who has built the HMS Victory by Corel before

That would be me  . Unfortunately I completed the model just before I found MSW, so there is no build log for it (a few pics are in the Gallery - click the link in my signature), but I could give you some advice on building her.

 

There are about a dozen build logs of the Corel Victory in the Quick-Find Index for Wooden Ship Kits (click this LINK) but none are marked as Finished.

 

Danny

[DarkAngel]

Hi Dan, good to see an Aussie nearby has built the HMS Victory 1805 by Corel

 

Do you think adding something like this to the bulkhead's would help line up the cannon rows with the waterline when planking the hull ?

 

 

 

 

[Dan Vadas]

14 hours ago, DarkAngel said:

Do you think adding something like this to the bulkhead's would help line up the cannon rows with the waterline when planking the hull ?

The gunports don't actually line up with the waterline, each deck is slightly different. The height of the ports is actually determined by the sheer line of each deck. Adding port liners is a very good idea as they are actually used in real practise - after all the planking needs to be attached to something around the port  . Click on THIS LINK to see how they look. Check out the following posts as well.

 

Danny

[DarkAngel]

6 hours ago, Dan Vadas said:

Adding port liners is a very good idea as they are actually used in real practise - after all the planking needs to be attached to something around the port  . Click on THIS LINK to see how they look. Check out the following posts as well.

 

Danny

Sure did Danny, and kudos to you my friend.

 

That build is impressive and has given me an idea about what kind of tools to add to my wish list. The files for instance are interesting. Thanks for the heads up.

[DarkAngel]

HMS Victory 1805

A R R I V E D  ::  V I A  ::  P O S T

 

Today I received the post packed HMS Victory 1805 SM23 wooden kit by Corel.

 

I opened the box with trepidation however was pleasantly suprised to see nothing broken at first check, everything in is the original packaging and unopened. The maps and disgrams are crisp and new, in short it's a like new kit I purchased for about 1/3 of the normal price with free postage !. My plan is to redesign my living room to accommodate a modelling and display area. I have tools still arriving via post and a lot of preparation to undertake as yet before I will begin this epic project.

 

My next few posts will include various topics for quick easy reference which I shall add to as I go along.

 

Out of the Box

Pics of the bits and pieces straight out of the box.

 

Tool kit

Tools acquired throughout the build

 

Model limitations

Notes built up from research on limitations, scale errors and other stock issues with this particular build

 

 Build Modifications

Planned changes to make model more to scale, or true to the original in design or visual appearance

 

Tips

Tips found to be most useful in the build will be referenced here

 

Ship Wrights Journal

A diary type of account of my progress complete with pics to highlight the journey.

 

Edited June 20, 2019 by DarkAngel

[DarkAngel]

Out of the Box

 

Opened the box and took a basic inventory, there are lots of brass ad wooden fittings. Everything looks good qua;ity, thread is woven like rope, cannons are metal with a burnished look to them and crafted tiny fittings are quite impressive.

 

I couldn't just let the bulkheads sit in the plastic for any longer... so I liberated them and assembled the skeleton of the ship to get a feel for the size and how things fit together. Found some nail clippers with a file on them to file down edges of bulkheads and did a test it of the decks.

 

Looking good and I think I have a handle on how things go together. Still waiting for tools to arrive so this time will be used on trying to work out the model and the best plan of attack for the hull planking and placement of hatches. I'm going to go through all the wood strips and sort everything out. Also checking the inventory parts by number and ticking them off as I go along making sure I have the right parts for the build.

 

One thing I noticed is that the Corel model only has one type of cannon hatch....  Counted 102 cannons.

 

Edited June 19, 2019 by DarkAngel

[DarkAngel]

Tool Kit

 

Wooden Pine Artists Box

1. Pull out long tray to keep wood strips flat
2. Small medication bottles - for keeping small parts in a sealed plastic container - labelled by part # and name
3. Syringes - for PVA glue  storage and application
4. Razor saw and blades - for sharp wood cutting
5. modelling knife - extra chisel end blades
6. Push pins - for planking
7. Tooth picks - applying PVA to small parts
8. Dusting brush - cleaning dust and debris
9. Clips - Clamps - for holding stuff together overnight
10. Circlip Pliers - internal, external adjustable
11. Wire cutters - heavy duty
12. Scissors - misc
13. Cutting mat - self healing mat to save your bench tops
14. Tweezers - hook nose
15. mini files - smoothing wood and castings
16. Leatherman 'surge' - multi tool.
17. mini hand drill - for tiny drill bits like 0.5 mm, 1.0 mm
18. Permanent marker: Faber Castell PITT Artist pen for caulking lines on deck planks

 

Power tools

 

1. mini lathe cordless drill - (lathe) remanufacturing belaying pins etc. (rope maker) spin motor for making own rope
2. Dremel, rotary mutli tool. for cutting, grinding, sanding and engraving in precision scale, also has work station aka drill press and a flexi extender shaft for precision work.
3. Steam cleaner - great for plank bending.

 

Misc

1. PVA glue - good to dilute for easy removal later on placements of structural parts. Strong bond in a few hours.
2. Gorilla glue - good to use on wet wood for strong bonding. Has 12 hour cure time.
3. Vice grips - just because I have lots of small vice grips
4. Bench Vice - suction mount, good for making precise adjustments to small material's.
5. Magnifying glass with light 
6. mini laser level - AAA battery for quick easy levelling
7. Digital Calipers - checking width's and thickness accurately (unfortunately they jump 5cm often) I'd go with non digital next time.
8. Guillotine - trimming deck planks
9. Plank cutter - for nice square ends to cuts

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by DarkAngel

[DarkAngel]

Model limitations

 

Scale

There are many sections I have noticed that don't seem to match the original pics of the HMS Endeavour as taken in Portsmouth and I'd like to change the visual aesthetic to be in line with the original as much as possible. 

 

Rear Cabin

The size of this and the build looks all out of whack, this is important as it sets the placement of the rows of cannons on the hull and needs to be completely reworked in my opinion to make the hull more in line with the original HMS Victory.

 

  Solution:  Acquired the Amati 1:96 - 1:100 metal casted 140mm x 80 mm rear cabin and sides and rebuilding Stern framing will be required.

 

Deck levels and Cannon hatch framing

My initial thoughts are that these will need to be adjusted to accommodate the correct placement of the third row of cannons near the waterline. I'm going to consider this when assembling the bulkheads and adding a frame to position the cannon hatches on the various rows of cannons before planking the hull.

 

Cannon's

There are only carriages for the short 12 lb'ers in the kit, and no allowances for the longer barreled 12 lb'ers. Also the half cannon's with the wider barrels are not found on the Upper Gun Deck, but the Middle Gun Deck being the 24 lber cannons. Also the Lower Gun Deck has bigger cannons again !... 48 lber's I think with even bigger barrels no doubt.

 

  notes: 

• I used the stock cannon hatches with the framing trimmed and attached to the hatch to make them a little bigger.
• Cannon dummy's are the 24 lber's and not present on the Quarterdeck, so I obtained the Billings 18mm x 4mm brass half Cannon's as they are more accurate to go with the other 12 lber's

Edited October 14, 2019 by DarkAngel

[DarkAngel]

Build Modifications

 

Rear Cabin

Look at rebuilding this part entirely to be more accurate with the original HMS Victory in dimensions, details and may have a go at wood carving the decorations at some point 

 

 solution: Obtained the Amati HMS Victory cast metal stern parts. 

 

 

Cannon framing and Port Liners

Prefabricating framing directly into the bulkheads to allow accurate placement of cannon hatches, whales and wood choice for hull planking. That's the theory anyway.

 

Cannon's

I have obtained the following Cannon's in addition to the one's supplied in the kit, as the barrel lengths are incorrect for the long 12 lb'ers'

 

• Corel 30mm Cannon's from Cornwall Models UK
• Billings 18mm x 4mm brass half cannon's for the Quarterdeck long 12 lb'ers

 

 

Reforming Parts

1. In the assembly of the hull - Bulkhead #12 needs the slot re-cut a quite a bit to enable the deck to sit over it. edit does fit as original, after refitting a second time, it fits better and the height difference is for the quarterdeck above.
2. Bulkhead #13 below you can see rising above the rest of the wood needed a bit of the slot lengthened to fit flush. This is needed to allow the top deck to set level.
3. 
4. Bulkhead #12 (see above) can be trimmed under the Quarterdeck by about 5mm to allow for the Ship's Wheel to fit underneath the Poop Deck
5. Hull 2nd planking to use white pine 2mm x 5mm coffee stirrers to arrange flush with walnut 2mm x 5mm whales.

 

New plans of attack

 

I have decided to redo the floor plan of sections of the Upper Gun Deck and the Quarterdeck. Feel free to use these drawing plans as a scaled guide in your personal build  

 

Quarterdeck

 

 notes: The forward grates could be a bit wider upon further reflection as the outer frames extend a little past the belaying pin posts. Also the stock grates can be replaced with the wooden grates in the kit or the Artesania 33mm grates. I've gone for the Artesania 33mm grates as they appear a smaller grid than the stock Corel wooden grates.

 

Upper Gun Deck

 

notes: The forward posts on the bow side should be pillars, the same as the others in the series, not thicker posts. Also the placement of the posts around the 2nd (Main) Mast are accurate to the real HMS Victory, however they are further away from the mast that the other belaying pin racks on the Quarterdeck. So if you wanted all 3 masts to have the same distance from the belaying pin racks, then you may need to reconsider my plan below.

 

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by DarkAngel

[DarkAngel]

Tips

BY NO MEANS CAN I TAKE ANY CREDIT FOR THESE WONDERFUL IDEA'S

 

Gluing and Prefabrication

 

1. Diluted PVA mix with water :  I read in a blog somewhere here that thinning down PVA glue to a weaker consistency helps later when structural sections need taking apart and redoing.
2. Mixing sawdust with PVA is great for filling any unsightly gaps in the wood.
3. Gorilla Glue works well with wet wood bonding. Especially useful for when bending and then gluing wet wood onto the hull.

 

Building a solid strong level hull

 

1. Setting the keel straight and true is important to getting everything right and level right off the bat.
2. Use a jig to hold the front and end of the ship in place level and true at 90 deg while assembling the bulkhead framing, screwing down brackets onto the baseboard is good to keep the model level.
3. measure and remeasure the levels to make sure everything is level often after attaching or reattaching new sections.
4. Excess wood can be trimmed later once the framing is complete to save mistakes being permanent in the early stages of the build.

 

Aged Wood method

 

 

1. mix vinegar and torn fine steel wool overnight,
2. brew some strong tea and paint tea on the decking or wood to be aged
3. After tea has dried, paint on vinegar and steel wool solution
4. wait until it dries
5. repeat as necessary
6. lightly scrape wood to finish

 

Sourcing wood for crafting

 

1. Wooden coffee stirrers are about 2mm thick and 5-6mm wide, useful for splitting into smaller parts
2. Bamboo round disposable chopsticks are good for using in a drill lathe to shape
3. Bamboo tooth picks or long skewers are good for crafting belaying pins, and long skewers good for oars too.

 

Adding aged patina to brass and iron

 

 

• 'Liver of Sulphur' concentrate is the solution to break down the surface adding a patina in brown to black.
• You should investigate this method carefully as it is a dangerous substance
• Requires rubber gloves and safety goggles as it is harmful.
• Also have water available to neutralise solution that may be on tweezers or other items in contact with it
• I use a water 'bath' in a separate container to dip items in to stop the patina process (mainly for cannon balls)
• Adding a patina to brass seems to take days with the items soaking in the concentrated solution, whereas a quick dip and leaving to air dry works a treat after a few hours of chemical reaction with the brass.  

 

Power Drill Wonder tool

 

 

1. May be used as a small portable handy lathe for small wooden dowl turning 
2. Can be used as a power motor for sitting in a rope twining jig to make your own ships rope.

Edited October 14, 2019 by DarkAngel

[DarkAngel]

Shipwrights Journal

 

Build Plan Calendar

 

June 20th The Build Begins !

- Assemble Bulkheads for test fit with deck levels noted

- Fit cannon brackets between bulkheads, calculate deck level 3 floor line

- Cannon test fit assembly for height of port liners on deck levels 1 & 2

- Build jig to hold keel level for build