Oseberg Ship by KrisWood - 1:25 - Vibeke Bischoff Plans

[michael mott]

9 minutes ago, KrisWood said:

At this point I've decided to call it a learning experience and start over.

Been there done that! welcome to the club Kris.

 

Michael

[Louie da fly]

5 hours ago, KrisWood said:

At this point I've decided to call it a learning experience and start over.

You're not alone! All part of the wonderful world of ship modelling.

 

Steven

Edited January 15, 2020 by Louie da fly

[mtaylor]

We've all had that learning experience, Kris.  It's a rite of passage.

[KrisWood]

I'm in the process of cutting out my keel, stem, and stern parts again, and doing it by hand with a coping saw / chisels takes FOREVER and I can't get a straight line for the life od me. I tried using a rotary tool but that thing has a mind of its own and the cutting discs only like to go in a straight line.

 

What tools do you use for cutting out parts? Do you have any links handy for how to cut out parts that are not videos? (I learn best by reading)

Edited January 21, 2020 by KrisWood

[michael mott]

2 hours ago, KrisWood said:

doing it by hand with a scroll saw /

Hello Kris perhaps a library book on fretwork what type of scroll saw are you using? Pictures please.

 

michael

[KrisWood]

I meant a coping saw, sorry. Just wishing I had a scroll saw. 

[mtaylor]

Try this.... put a strong light shining down on your penciled lines on the board.  Now for the tricky part.  Use the coping saw (rotate the work piece if you have to) such that the shadow of the blade is inline with your pencil mark.  I've done that more than once and also use the shadow method on my scroll saw.

[KrisWood]

How do you know if your coping saw is straight up and down / cutting at the right angle? I don't really have a good strong light other than my phone's flash, and that's hard to hold steady while cutting. I've been working on the front porch so I don't get sawdust all over the house. This also means I don't have a stable work surface.

[mtaylor]

Ok, the light will be a problem.  What you're looking for when using the shadow is for the shadow and blade to be a straight line.  If the blade is off, it the shadow will be off to one side or the other of the line.  Actually hard to explain and my drawing skills stink.  

[KrisWood]

I did some more work on the keel parts last night and figured out this is more a problem of skill with the tools I have than a problem with the tools I have available. When I first cut out the pieces yesterday with the coping saw (and chisels when I got frustrated with how slow the coping saw was at cutting out the long part of the keel) I ended up with a ragged, lumpy chunk of wood.

 

A couple hours of careful work with an x-acto knife, a plane, a sanding block, and a file cleaned them right up. While doing so I realized several mistakes I'd made on my last attempt, the foremost being, how do you tell if both sides of the keel are the same? This morning I realized all I need is a right angle to compare it against. I think I'll be ok.

 

I'm still going to try to get a scroll saw though.

[Louie da fly]

Hang in there, Kris. You're actually making progress and finding out what works and what doesn't.

 

Even if it may be a little frustrating for the time being it will stand you in good stead in the future. We've all been there and you'll find that as you gain more experience you'll cast aside what doesn't work and spend more of you time doing what does. I still make a hash of cutting out and have to cut everything rather too big and then trim down with knife and sandpaper (or more often a file in my case - I just feel more comfortable with a fine file than with sandpaper).

 

Steven

Edited January 22, 2020 by Louie da fly

[KrisWood]

Thank you Steven, I needed to hear that! 🙂

[Louie da fly]

7 hours ago, KrisWood said:

Thank you Steven, I needed to hear that! 🙂

[KrisWood]

Minor updates and a question.

 

I'm still in the process of remaking the keel, stem, and stern parts. It's a slow going process with the tools I have available. I've decided to make all the scarfs before gluing and before shaping the cross sections of the parts this time, so that if any specific part gets ruined I only have to remake that part instead of all of them.

 

Meanwhile I've decided to get a scroll saw or equivalent. Currently I'm leaning toward the Rockwell Bladerunner X2 because it also includes a fence to function as a mini table saw. I know it's not the best tool for the job, but it's inexpensive and versatile and even if it's terrible it can't be any worse than my skill level with the coping saw.

 

Has anyone used this saw? Is it worth getting? What blades would you use for cutting basswood? Most reviews say to use Bosch jigsaw blades, but I don't know which ones to get. I already have some laying around so I'm hoping those will work, but at least they're not expensive if I need to get more.

[michael mott]

I have no experience with this saw Kris

 

Michael

[KrisWood]

https://www.amazon.com/Rockwell-BladeRunner-Portable-Tabletop-Accessories/dp/B00L47FZ8A

 

It's basically an upside down jigsaw mounted on a small table. I like that it does multiple types of cutting without needing to buy multiple tools I can't afford. I also like that it's portable since I work on my front porch. I worry a little that it may not be up to accurately cutting out the curvy parts, but it can't do any worse than I'm doing by hand. The only things I'll need are the right T-shank jigsaw blades.

[Landrotten Highlander]

I have no experience with this particular machine ,but as an Engineer my experience with tools is that the cheap 'all-round' tools are usually they are not good at any of the tasks they are advertised to do.  However, for the hobbyist level of working this machine might do the trick, as long as you let the saw do the work: never push your wood through the thing, just guide it to where it needs to cut.

Edited January 27, 2020 by Landrotten Highlander

[KrisWood]

Yeah, that's what most of the reviews say, too. Don't expect it to be as accurate as the machines that just do one thing, and let the saw do the work.

[KrisWood]

I took a break from painstakingly copying lines onto my keel/stem/stern parts to work on drawing bulkhead templates for planking the first 9 strakes (10-12 go on after the frames are in place). Does anyone have tips for building a jig for planking a lapstrake ship? I've never built one before and am at a bit of a loss as to how it's done. Ideally I'd like to be able to re-use the parts that keep the keel in place when I switch from bulkheads to frames. Thanks!

[KrisWood]

Ok I've got a problem. I've drawn all my planking bulkheads and they need to be approximately 9"x7". As I've said earlier in this thread, I'm having a hard time finding sheets of wood wider than 4" locally, which would mean the bow and stern would need to hang over the ends of the work surface if I want to do the planking upside down as shown on this site:

 

https://www.arbeitskreis-historischer-schiffbau.de/mitglieder/modelle/oseberg/

 

Does anyone have any suggestions of how to either build upright, or to work with smaller wooden bulkheads or other materials for larger ones upside down?

[KrisWood]

I may have found a solution. The hardware store may not have wood suitable for modeling, but it does have sheets of 1/4" x 2'x2' MDF that might work for the planking bulkheads. I'm going to give it a try. 🙂

[mtaylor]

I'm not sure where you are but usually big box (Lowes, Home Depot) carry sheets of ply down to 1/8" and sometimes 1/16" in 4X8, 4X4 and sometimes 4X2.   It can also be purchased on line like that.   I've used this place which also sells "Lite" ply http://www.nationalbalsa.com/birch_plywood_s/58.htm

[Roger Pellett]

Model aircraft plywood available at hobby shops and online and cheaper craft plywood widely available at home improvement and craft stores is available in larger dimensioned sheets with fractional thicknesses of 1/4,  1/8, 1/16,1/32, and 1/64in.

 

Roger

[KrisWood]

Does plywood work better than MDF? I was afraid the ply would be harder to cut because of the crossed grains. I was also thinking I'd need to stick pins in the bulkheads to hold the planks in place and thought the pins would split the layers in the ply.

[KrisWood]

Ok I took the MDF back to Home Depot and got 1/4" plywood instead. Hopefully I'll have time to make sawdust soon. I'll add some new photos when I do.

[mtaylor]

Kris,

You'll find that plywood is a lot easier to work with than MDF and not as toxic.  When cutting and sanding the plywood, just make sure you wear a dust mask as with any wood.  

[KrisWood]

Hi everyone! It took a while to get to a point where I had anything worth sharing again, but the current quarantine has given me more time for hobby projects.

 

Since I last posted, I drew all my planking bulkheads and cut my scarfs in all the keel and stem pieces. Last night I glued the scarfs together. It came out better than the last attempt, but still not quite right. Some joints came out so well I can barely tell they’re there. A couple have large gaps where the parts were cut at slightly different angles.

 

My question now is, are the ones with gaps worth keeping, or should I take them apart and try to make them fit better? How do you get the angles the same anyway? I tried the home made miter box and a right angle method but they still came out slightly off.

 

[KrisWood]

Nah, we all know the answer to that. I took it apart of course! I’ll have it back together again shortly.  

[Cathead]

I find perfect mitre joints very hard to make, personally, even with jigs. There's just so little room for error and I don't have true fine-scale skills. Repeated attempts are certainly one way to try to hit the magic result.

[SJSoane]

When I have to make a very precise joint, I have tried a variety of strategies like building jigs. But more recently, I have settled on cutting roughly to the line with whatever saw is handy, and then refining the face with a paring chisel, sanding blocks or files.

 

Here artist's transfer paper or carbon paper is your friend. You slip a piece of this between the two pieces of the joint, and pull it out. This leaves some graphite on the spot that is too tight. Sand or file the graphite away, and then repeat. In complex pieces, like the ones where I am refining the edges of planks bent around a bow, I may have to repeat this process 10-12 times. But it will achieve a perfect fit if you are patient.

 

When sanding a flat face as in your keel joint, hold the piece firmly on a work surface against a square block to ensure it is vertical, then slide the sanding block back and forth while it rides on the horizontal work surface. You do not want to hold each in your hand while you try to sand it, because this is guaranteed to wander off a right angle, and also likely round the face.

 

I am getting better at doing this with a file, but it took me a long time to learn how to control flat and vertical cuts. The sanding block on a flat surface is more reliable.

 

David Antscherl's excellent books on the Fully Framed Model also give great advice about how to cut things accurately with very sharp chisels. When I first read these, I thought that level of skill was way beyond me, and it was when I first tried. But a lot of practice--and constantly keeping the chisel razor sharp--has got my skills to a point that I can more reliably count on this approach.

 

Three secrets to success with chisels, for me. First, scribe the line to be cut with a scalpel, using a square or straightedge. This give something for the chisel edge to register to, rather than trying to line it up by eye. Second, look at the reflection of the piece of wood in the face of the chisel, and change the alignment of the chisel until the wood and its reflection are straight, ensuring that you are holding the chisel straight up vertically. Third, only pare away thin slices multiple times, rather than trying to take off a larger chunk. The larger chunk approach will often crush the wood rather than slice it, and it tends to push the blade in at an angle as the wedge of the chisel tries to cope with the greater forces needed. Light and delicate is the key, and thin slices can be removed with little effort, with a gratifying "snick" sound.

 

And I concur with other comments here; learning this process involved making lots of mistakes and doing parts over. But that is part of the fun, because you can see a visual trail of how much better you are getting, when you look at your earlier, less successful efforts!

 

Best wishes,

 

Mark