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Posted

These sorts of little jigs are so satisfying because as you demonstrate they are so helpful and easy to make. 
Michael

Current builds  Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8;      Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8;       Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8

Other projects  Pilot Cutter 1:500 ;   Maria, 1:2  Now just a memory    

Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8

Finished projects  A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100  

 

Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it.

Posted

I just stumbled across this blog and found it very interesting. My Grandfather was the the corporate secretary of Capitol Brass Works and a close friend of Benjamin Noble (President). They worked together for many years. I remember my father telling me about the sinking and that his father took it very hard as he was an investor in the ships construction. As my father described it "Dad was never the same after the sinking". 

John Dietz

Prescott AZ

Posted (edited)

Hi john, 

Thanks for your post.  Post 14 on Page 1 Is by a descendent of Theodore Grant who was the Noble’s master prior to her final voyage.  Interesting reading!  Do you have any additional information about your grandfather’s ownership interest or the structure of the Capitol Transport Company set up to own the ship?

 

The Benjamin Noble’s loss stands as one of the most misunderstood events in Great Lakes history.  I first read about it in a book published in the 1960’s by Dwight Boyer, the long standing marine reporter for the Cleveland Plain Dealer. Of course at that time she was still a “Ghost Ship.”  I met him in the 1970’s at an event in Vermilion, Ohio never dreaming that I would live within 20 miles of her loss and would sail scores of times in and out of the Duluth Ship Canal that she was trying to reach.

 

Of course, her wreckage was found and surveyed in 2004, but authors are still cranking out Dwight Boyer’s 1960’s story in new books.  I will be the first with a Naval Architecture background and a set of her original drawings to logically analyze her loss.  I would like to set the record straight.

 

Stay tuned,

 

Roger

 

 

Edited by Roger Pellett
  • 2 weeks later...
Posted

Hatch Coamings

 

Benjamin Noble’s main deck was pierced by openings for six hatches, not seven as claimed by some writers.  The seventh hatch sits atop the after deckhouse to provide access to the coal bunkers.  The hatch openings were surrounded and reinforced by a 1ft high coaming made from channel section with the athwartship sides rolled to match the deck camber.  Cast iron clips were riveted to the channel on 30in centers to hold a wooden batten.  The batten and wooden wedges secured heavy tarpaulins used when bad weather threatened.  The hatch covers were wooden to be discussed in a future post.

 

The coamings were made several years ago during one my previous attempts to model the ship.  Construction was straightforward.  The channel shapes were  cut from 1/8in square brass tube on my Byrnes saw and bent to the correct camber around a wooden form.  With the large bend radius the channel section did not distort.  The pieces were then cut to length.  A Zona fine tooth razor Saw works well for this.  Brass angles were also cut to reinforce the joints and the assembly was soldered together.   A wooden insert epoxied inside each coaming will allow the assemblies to be mechanically fastened to the deck and will provide a glue friendly surface for the hatch covers.

 

The long main decks of these Lake freighters often provide little of interest so when I dug the previously made coamings out of my stash, I decided to add detail to the hatches by modeling the clips.  At 1:96 these clips are tiny and I tried several approaches.  Attaching photo etched parts with CA glue does not appeal to me and I wanted to avoid the look that the coaming “needed  a shave” with pieces of bent wire sprouting out.  I finally decided in an impressionistic approach by soldering pieces of 24 gauge square wire at the correct spacing vertically within the open channel section.  This involved drilling correctly spaced 1/32in holes vertically through both channel flanges, feeding the wire through the holes and soldering it in place.  A sheet metal pattern and wooden fixture clamped in the vice for the Sherline milling column/ sensitive drilling attachment made drilling vertical correctly spaced holes possible although several drills were broken in the process.  While this by no means matches the actual clips it is a neat appearance that will be enhanced when the coamings are painted.

 

EE1C060C-10EB-4E62-A1D3-1838DD473F3F.thumb.jpeg.a488edd98ffc44a644099f33f54bb845.jpeg1A0BDB6E-492D-4815-B51D-07BABB6356C4.thumb.jpeg.086e4fe6e17238f0703ba06626b8f8d1.jpeg8E650FF7-A01E-4BB9-BC72-E303322D5C78.thumb.jpeg.cad0661e82d9cec32f4a83f3af5e6352.jpegE7BB8F37-3867-4801-AF3A-CBC7B3A31EEE.thumb.jpeg.76bc2cc2b3e64c6835352dc7f327e2fc.jpegDAC63351-E22E-446E-B588-1647BBC65FB0.thumb.jpeg.f08af43b9c55a64bac16900227905b1b.jpeg

 

Posted

These turned out great, and I absolutely agree that giving the impression of the clips is the right approach whether or not it's a literal recreation of them.

  • 3 weeks later...
Posted

Hatch Covers.

 

Great Lakes bulk cargo vessels have a long tragic history with hatch covers.  From sailing ship days down to and including the 1975 sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald leaking or failing hatch covers have been blamed for their loss.  Great Lakes vessel’s are “low freeboard” ships.There are several reasons for this:  First of all an assumption that Great Lakes vessels sail in “protected waters.” Second, Great Lakes upper lake ports are equipped with huge trestles extending into the harbor.  Cargo is loaded by gravity.  The need to provide adequate slope to the loading spouts limits freeboard. So Great Lakes vessels sailing in heavy weather often have their decks awash.

 

The original hatch covers were wooden planks.  These were labor intensive and leaked badly without additional covering with tarpaulins.  The last Great Lakes vessel with wooden hatch covers sailed until 1970. In 1904, telescoping steel hatch covers were introduced. These could be opened and closed with the ship’s steam deck winch but were not watertight without tarpaulins.  Telescoping steel hatch covers without waterproofing Tarpaulins were directly responsible for the 1957 sinking on Lake Superior with heavy loss of life of the George Steinbrenner.   In the 1920’s one piece steel hatch covers secured with dozens of cam operated clamps around the hatch periphery were introduced.  These heavy steel plate covers had to be handled with traveling gantry cranes powered by electric motors.  While these would seem to be impregnable, leaking of or collapse of hatch covers caused by waves breaking over the deck were blamed by the USCG for the 1975 loss of the Edmund Fitzgerald; a conclusion still hotly disputed by Great Lakes steamship companies. There has been one American ship built on the Great Lakes since the 1980’s, Interlake’s Kyle Barker.  She was placed in service within the past several years. She appears to be equipped with large hydraulically operated hatch covers. 

 

Roger

 

Next:  Benjamin Noble’s hatch covers

  • 3 weeks later...
Posted

Hatch Covers II

 

Each hatch was covered by 12 wooden covers.  The covers, each weighing about 150# were handled by the deckhands; two men per hatch.  This was a backbreaking job that had to be performed four times for each usually short round trip voyage.

 

The covers were each 9ft long x 30in wide and were made from 2in x 6in white pine lumber (I assumed that these are actual dimensions and not nominal as is the case today).  I had originally intended to make the 12 covers per hatch as one piece using 1/32in thick craft plywood, but recently decided to model each cover separately with individual planks.  After considering several options I arrived at the following system:

 

Using some nice 1” nominal clear pine from the offcut bin at the local Menards store, I ripped a number of 1/16in pieces (6in to scale) These had to be accurate within a few .001” as 60 1/16” wide planks make the covers to close each hatch.  If each plank were to be .010” too wide, the cumulative error would be 0.60”. I, therefore, glued the saw cut planks to a flat board and used my jointer to remove the few thousands necessary.

 

I then glued the .060” thick strips into stacks, each stack 5 strips high.  For glue, I used ordinary PVA glue colored with burnt umber acrylic artist color.  I used several large C clamps to get the clamping pressure necessary to get  tight glue lines between layers in the stack.

 

Each stack was then tried up to ensure straight parallel edges.  Each stack was then cut into 1-1/4” blocks; the width of the hatch coamings.  Surfaces that would represent edges of the finished covers were then painted.

 

The Byrnes Saw was then set up with the NRG thin rip guide and the and .030” thick hatch covers were sliced off each block. Yes, the hatch covers are .01” thicker than scale but is is not apparent.

 

Photo:

 

F8E50A59-B18E-4447-8229-B5DFB03A6B23.thumb.jpeg.7a46b8aa8b6d8ffbb865ec6ac5d86628.jpeg2B30F64C-4E75-47EB-BE71-0E9DFDBF39E8.thumb.jpeg.96edea2b7768ea05b559b5bf4e3a112c.jpeg06D253F7-49E3-48AE-A1BF-E397F026A8C9.thumb.jpeg.cab131f56511dbdf7c04b3b989ae3377.jpeg

 

 

 

 

Posted

Thanks all!  I’m fortunate to have enough space to have two workshops; one dedicated to relatively clean close work and one immediately next to it for cutting and machining lumber with full sized woodworking equipment.  This second shop also shares space with gardening tools.

 

The jointer is a wonderful precise woodworking tool.  It is close to 45 years old, built when machined cast iron, and external motors with v belts were the standard.  4in (approx 100mm) is enough capacity for my needs.

 

Roger

  • 1 month later...
Posted

Roger

 

like many other of your followers I am reading your posts more than once.  I am learning much as you tackle the many challenges of working to replicate on deck details.  Your brass work is wonderful and inspiring. I may try a little.    

 

the hatch covers introduced your use of the 'NRG thin rig guide , and has encouraged me to buy one.   I find ripping less than say 3/32 against the normal guide from a sheet gets me some variation.  Thanks for sharing that tip

 

 

jon 

 

 

 

  • 4 weeks later...
Posted

Ringbolts-  

 

Work over the last two months centered on completing the hatches.  There were three stages to the job; the 148 ringbolts, completing the hatch boards, and making the hatch bars that prevented the wooden hatch boards from floating.  

 

Each of the 72 main deck hatch boards and the 8 bunker hatch boards were fitted with two ring bolts.  While these usually appear on any model with wooden hatches readers might be interested in how they were actually used.  This is described in Jay McCormick’s 1942 prize winning book November Storm.  The book is a fictional account of a young man’s season aboard a Great Lakes Freighter fitted with wooden hatches.  Shortly after joining the vessel he is called upon with another deckhand to remove the hatch covers for unloading.

 

Each hatch board, weighing about 150# was handled by two men each armed with a short wooden “hatch bat”.  One end was pushed into a ringbolt and the other held by the deckhand.  Working in unison at diagonally opposite ends the 9ft long hatch board could be lifted and walked over to the side of the deck.  Since time is money, this had to be done quickly, before the vessel was tied up at the loading or unloading dock. The effort required is hard to imagine!

 

In my case, the problem was figuring how to make them.  Each ringbolt ring had an OD of 6” so at 1:96 scale this would be 1/16”; Tiny!   A feature of scratch building is the time that must be spent figuring how to make things, particularly if one chooses to build a variety of models and to work at different scales.  As a result, several frustrating  work sessions can go by until things get figured out.  In my case, I first developed a system that I posted in the metalworking section of the forum that involved using a hand drill to twist a loop of wire.  I abandoned this as it didn’t produce a round ring.

 

The system that I eventually used is shown in the photos below.  It involved drawing .010” diameter wire around mandrel of 1/32” aluminum wire and soldering the loop with a drop of .010” diameter solder on the tip of a very small soldering iron.  The result is slightly Under-scale but looks good relative to the hatch board.  I began by using specially tinned brass wire but after running out found some .010” steel wire in my stash that was even easer to solder.

 

Roger

 

Note: the brass wire in the second photo is intentionally oversized to demonstrate the concept.

 

5FC52F61-BB23-4427-83A3-C155AC04AA60.thumb.jpeg.13510daacb3df3d58106db0de07a0b9a.jpegAE25D5B1-C5E2-40B3-AD47-418A191DD3A7.thumb.jpeg.13efe7546f3e2ed92a8903ed91f65782.jpeg2CB2436F-6CD3-4CB2-B7B0-7D61754551E6.thumb.jpeg.5a1310f3e118f17ee51e18bb2027972d.jpeg

 

 

Posted
57 minutes ago, Roger Pellett said:

A feature of scratch building is the time that must be spent figuring how to make things, particularly if one chooses to build a variety of models and to work at different scales.

Roger - Too true. I constantly think I would be much more productive if i just spent my time building the same model over and over again. On the other hand the most interesting bit is the problem solving. 

 

The hatch cover removal process seems like a nightmare. I assume they don't do it that way anymore.

 

I'm not quite sure how the jig is working. Is the taper peg just a holding (tensioning) feature?

Keith

 

Current Build:-

Cangarda (Steam Yacht) - Scale 1:24

 

Previous Builds:-

 

Schooner Germania (Nova) - Scale 1:36

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/19848-schooner-germania-nova-by-keithaug-scale-136-1908-2011/

Schooner Altair by KeithAug - Scale 1:32 - 1931

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/12515-schooner-altair-by-keithaug-scale-132-1931/?p=378702

J Class Endeavour by KeithAug - Amati - Scale 1:35 - 1989 after restoration.

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/10752-j-class-endeavour-by-keithaug-amati-scale-135-1989-after-restoration/?p=325029

 

Other Topics

Nautical Adventures

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13727-nautical-adventures/?p=422846

 

 

Posted

Keith,

 

The latest American Lake vessel launched 2-3 years ago has hatches that are three generations removed from the wooden covers fitted on the Benjamin Noble:

 

2nd generation- telescoping steel covers

3rd generation- One piece steel plate covers handled with a traveling hatch crane.  (Used on all but 1 vessel in the American Lakes Fleet).

4th generation- one piece hydraulically operated cover (used on one vessel)

 

The tapered plug was just there to fix one end of the wire.  The other end was attached to the closest spool shown in the first photo.  This allowed me to put tension on the wire to endure round, uniform rings.

 

Roger

 

 

Posted
13 hours ago, Roger Pellett said:

This allowed me to put tension on the wire to endure round, uniform rings.

I hope you don’t mind me stealing this method Roger. I usually just wrap the wire around a small drill bit with finger strength for rings. The end results like you said were not quite round, but I found they worked at the time. Never thought of putting tension on the wire. Still learning. 
 

-Brian

Current Builds:                                                                                                 Completed Builds:

Mississippi River Towboat Caroline N.                                                    HMB Endeavor: Artesania Latina

                                                                                                                    USS Constitution - Cross Section: Mamoli

Non-Ship Builds:                                                                                              HMS Victory - Cross Section: Corel

New Shipyard                                                                                             King of the Mississippi - Steamboat: Artesania Latina

                                                                                                                     Battle Station Section: Panart (Gallery)

In Dry-dock                                                                                               Chaperon - 1884 Steamer: Model Shipways  

USS Constellation: Aretesania Latina                                                       USS Cairo - 1862 Ironclad: Scratch Build 

Flying Fish: Model Shipways                                                                               

                                                                                                                            

                                                                                                                            

  • 2 weeks later...
Posted

Finishing the hatch covers:

 

Today marks the official end of the 2023 Great Lakes Shipping season.  Vessels arriving at the queue for the  SOO locks by midnight will be locked through in either direction.  After that the locks will close until March 25 isolating Lake Superior from the other lakes.  It has been a good season with the twin ports of Duluth, MN and Superior WI shipping 51 Million tons of pelletized iron ore to American and Canadian steel miles. The ports also handled significant quantities of limestone, cement, coal, and grain.

 

The reason for the lakes’ 10 week closure each winter is not ice. Great Lakes vessels can and do navigate in ice.  The 10 week closure is required to perform maintenance that has been deferred during the shipping season.  Superior, Wisconsin is home to one of three active American drydocks on the lakes.  It can dock vessels up to 800ft long.  This winter will be busy.  Eight vessels are scheduled to lay up in the harbor here.

 

The layup each winter means that Great Lakes ships are and in the past have been well maintained.  That, and the fact that they sail in fresh water means that  weathering of the model will be minimal.  A notable exception is the Noble’s hatch covers.  The few photos that I have found of wooden hatch covers of Great Lakes vessels show a checkerboard of different weathered colors that vary from like new wood to black.

 

The first step in finishing the covers was to drill holes in them for the ringbolts. This was done using the sensitive drilling attachment mounted in the Sherline milling column.  Another of my simple wooden jigs assured correct location.  (First Photo).  Adding the two ringbolts to each cover was then just the matter of pushing the tail through the hole, bending it over and securing it with a dab of lacquer based fingernail polish. (Second photo).

 

To finish the covers I mixed up five different grey and black pigments and diluted them with alcohol.  For a couple of shades I added some granulated grey and black dry dye pigment to add a gritty texture. (Third photo). The different colored hatch covers will be arranged in a random pattern when they are added to the model.

 

Finally, (Forth Photo) two stacks of hatch covers to be fastened near the ship’s open coal bunker.

 

F68B0FC4-CA1A-4E29-B7D7-0DBE5D37C631.thumb.jpeg.c47a0a4e95ebc303fee1d966c9c79f7d.jpeg15940FB9-EB6E-4DDF-849F-C4D334B75B4F.thumb.jpeg.ed26172d7a92bcf2d8cc61e885cf3b69.jpeg006EDB8F-F81A-4F58-8591-5DBC363C576B.thumb.jpeg.6c4553abe8a590e9d3954195a8dc3bd5.jpeg7310794E-0654-41DC-8CD9-955C541BF3CE.thumb.jpeg.eecb31d03374762f2be2f60ef47c3586.jpeg

Roger

 

  • 3 weeks later...
Posted
On 10/10/2023 at 2:29 PM, realworkingsailor said:

As a correction/addendum, (and a largely forgotten bit of lore) the cam style clamps are properly called Kestner clamps, and the patent for these clamps dates to 1947:

 

https://patents.google.com/patent/US2583053A/en

 

Andy

The other style hatch cover that @Roger Pellett is mentioning that are used on the new US build Mark W Barker, as well as a few here one some Canadian lakers namely Spruceglen and Kaministiqua, are called McGregor hatches I believe?  See these commonly on the "salties".  Large hatch openings for large size cargoes, as opposed to the hatch farms typically seen on the boats that carry grain or taconite.

Posted
23 minutes ago, JKC27 said:

The other style hatch cover that @Roger Pellett is mentioning that are used on the new US build Mark W Barker, as well as a few here one some Canadian lakers namely Spruceglen and Kaministiqua, are called McGregor hatches I believe?  See these commonly on the "salties".  Large hatch openings for large size cargoes, as opposed to the hatch farms typically seen on the boats that carry grain or taconite.


“McGregor” hatches are more correctly called hydraulic folding hatches. MacGregor is a trade name, although it can be considered in the same vein as “Kleenex” is to bathroom tissues.
 

The Mark W Barker has a type of self-stacking/rolling hatches, whether these were built by MacGregor I don’t know. In the Barker’s case, one pontoon is equipped with jacks, while the adjacent is equipped with rollers. Once the first is raised by the jacks, the second pontoon is rolled underneath. The first pontoon is then lowered and the combined stack can be positioned about the hatch opening as required.

 

Andy

Quando Omni Flunkus, Moritati


Current Build:

USF Confederacy

 

 

Posted

Interesting. Could you drop back 125 years and describe the hatches used on steambarges hauling stone? 

 

i am building a model of the steambarge Margaret Olwill based upon the only known photo (see below). This was taken on June 27th, 1899 of her as she sat at the stone loading dock on Kelly's Island, Lake Erie. . She loaded limestone that day, left for Cleveland at midnight (50 mile trip) to be off Cleveland  early June 28, 1899. Ran into a Nor'Easter, off Lorain, Ohio, broke her steering chain, cargo shifted and rolled over sinking 8 miles off Lorain.  Nine lives lost, including her captain, his wife, son and a guest, as well as five of her nine crew. The wreck was located in 2017. Two hatch cover can be seem leaning against the port rail. Note: There are no plans of vessel. Model is built from this photo and similar steambarges of the timeframe. MargaretOlwill-topaz-denoise-enhance-4x-faceai-sharpen-2.thumb.png.b63b60834b68893be5852d9e2f4a5c15.png

Posted

She would have had wooden  hatch covers like those that I made for Benjamin Noble.  A curious feature in your photo; the hatch covers appear to be fastened together in pairs. 

 

As the covers would float under any head of water there would also be something to secure them in place.  The Noble has a grid of 3” steel angle that laid atop the covers with rods to padeyes on deck.  Details coming soon.

 

Roger

Posted
7 minutes ago, Roger Pellett said:

She would have had wooden  hatch covers like those that I made for Benjamin Noble.  A curious feature in your photo; the hatch covers appear to be fastened together in pairs. 

 

As the covers would float under any head of water there would also be something to secure them in place.  The Noble has a grid of 3” steel angle that laid atop the covers with rods to padeyes on deck.  Details coming soon.

 

Roger


I wonder if the black demarcation, that makes the cover boards appear to be in pairs, is not a channel for a securing batten?

 

The hatch coamings appear to be nothing more than a toe rail, so perhaps this would allow the battens to be even height with the coamings. If you look at the forward “pair”, they appear to be leaning at an odd angle that doesn’t appear to lend itself to two individual boards being stacked in such a manner. 
 

Andy

Quando Omni Flunkus, Moritati


Current Build:

USF Confederacy

 

 

Posted

Thanks for your input. I have two sets of plans that I am using for a reference. One is A.J. Fishers "Huron Brave", which is a Great Lakes bulk wooden steamer that never existed, and the other is the Smithsonian WPA plans for the wooden steamer from 1890 "Sidney O. Neff." Neither show the details for the hatch covers. The Neff drawings show a partial crosshatch drawing on the hatch cover, displaying the end grain of the wood pieces that make up the hatch cover. The grain runs fore and aft, but does not show whether the hatch cover is one or more sections. Converting the plan dimensions for the hatch covers shown for the Neff, they are: fore: 8' x 8', mid: 8' x 13' 7 aft: 8' x 10'. The Huron Braves drawing shows the hatch covers 8' x 16'.  In the photo, the hatch covers are leaning against a 4 foot high bulwark. Using that as a reference, the hatch cover shown is a 6'x 4' section and that the hatch opening is 6' x 8'. That is based upon the assumption that the other halve of the hatch cover is leaning against the starboard bulwark.

By the way, what looks like damage to the starboard side of the hull is, Photo Shop handling of a engine draining pipe and the discoloration caused by waste water on the side of the hull.   

 

Thanks for your help and Roger, good thread on your build. 

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