Pen Duick by BobG - Artesania Latina - 1:28

[BobG]

10 hours ago, hof00 said:

Have an "Experiment" with placing Masking Tape, or similar, on  a small piece of Plank?

Thanks Harry. I'll try various test pieces before I attempting anything on the actual deck. I'm beginning to look forward to the challenge of figuring what way works best for me...or so sez me before things get messy and frustrating!🤨

 

8 hours ago, Cabbie said:

When cutting out for the joggling, nibble at it don't try to do the full cutout in one go.

I start small with little cuts across the grain which helps to stop big split outs along the grain.

Do a series of little cuts along the length of the cutout and tease out little pieces of the plank until you are ready to

do the final neat cut.

Great advice, Cabbie, and thanks for taking the time to look in on my build and provide assistance. I'll post up here and let folks know how it goes.

 

[BobG]

4 hours ago, BobCardone said:

Looking good! Based on the excellent longboat you just completed, this should end up a real gem!

Thanks Bob! Having such good materials and instructions really enhanced the chances that the longboat would turn out well for me. The challenge with the Pen Duick is the instructions are minimal and the instructional photos are small and blurry so they aren't much help. Consequently, I having to slow down a lot while trying to figure things out as I go. I'm flying by the seat of my pants on this one...

[Bert Melert]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49923344227_296f780ee3_c.jpg

[BobG]

55 minutes ago, Bert Melert said:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49923344227_296f780ee3_c.jpg

For some reason the link to the photo you posted did not work in your post so I opened it below. Thanks.

 

[Justin P.]

23 hours ago, BobG said:

I'm flying by the seat of my pants on this one...

Now you're really livin! ha.  

[BobG]

11 minutes ago, Justin P. said:

Now you're really livin! ha.  

I've always been an adrenaline junkie so diving off into unknown territory is something I generally relish with enthusiasm. In ship modeling, however, the fun seems to end for me when I'm completely stumped and frustrated and have made a mess of things...then I start thinking about giving the poor model a Viking funeral!

[sticker]

HI bob, last winter i built AL,s long boat and quite enjoyed it ( first wooden ship model ) the instructions were good, with a full colour booklet, and good quality wood but alas no name plate .I tried contacting AL but no joy .So any way this winter i bought an old kit of the mari jeanne  ....what a contrast simillar instruction as yours   ie   heres some wood and string,  now off you go build a boat  .but ive just finished the boat and i happy with it. I made a few alterations ie i left off the dingy  it looked wrong   .like others i found the transom hard    but you get by  ,both kits had plenty of spare wood so ive now got a fair stock of various bits .So i hope you have fun with your kit    it doesnt have to look exactly like the one on the box ,you can make it your way with some of your own touches  ,,,,good work so far will watch along  ( my next kit is amati/ victory  hm granado   ,,,,no build logs on here to follow     hey ho   )

  

 

[BobG]

Hello sticker, it's no wonder there are so many unfinished build logs when so many of the kits from some of the major, long established kit companies have such terrible instructions that inexperienced modelers just give up in frustration. It's wonderful to see how Chris Watton has designed two fantastic fishing vessels that have high quality materials and practically fail safe instructions that will appeal to beginner and experienced modelers as well. They are ideal models for a beginner to be successful and get hooked on the hobby as a result. 

 

I'm just taking my time on the Pen Duick and trying to really think things through before I commit to cutting and gluing. I'm enjoying it so far!

 

Have you made build logs of the models you've completed? I like the fishing and working vessels a lot and the Marie Jeanne is a beauty. Congratulations on finishing her despite the poor instructions.

 

Thanks for stopping by!

[sticker]

Hi bob   i didnt make any build logs because although i work on the maintenance of some quite high tech automated machinery  for a large popular retailer here in the uk  im quite useless at computer stuff   ,i would love to do one for my next  project but im apprehensive   we,ll see     .Reguarding the marie jeanne instructions they were so bad they kind of encourage you to give in ,but luckily im one of those types that if im told that i cant do something then come hell or highwater i will do it or  be proved wrong and then sulk for a week  .I do my models over the winter months just to pass the time, but my next one is a bit bigger so i may start earlier ( october ish), anyway good luck , i will keep watching    

[BobG]

15 minutes ago, sticker said:

Hi bob   i didnt make any build logs because although i work on the maintenance of some quite high tech automated machinery  for a large popular retailer here in the uk  im quite useless at computer stuff   ,i would love to do one for my next  project but im apprehensive

Making a build log is actually very easy even for those who are not confident about computer stuff. The interface that they use here on MSW to make a build log is very user friendly and there are good instructions about how to go about doing it too. For photos, I simply take them with my cell phone, then transfer them to my computer and add them to the build log as per the instructions. It's very straight forward and, if you have questions, just ask and someone will quickly get it sorted out for you.

 

I have found that having a build log is not only a great way to get good advice but it also serves as motivation to keep working on your model and improving your modeling skills. It's also very nice to talk with fellow modelers from all over the world about a shared hobby. You'll find yourself making acquaintances with lots of very nice people in the process.

 

Good luck!

[sticker]

Hi bob   so it looks like im going to have to upgrade my phone (wife won,t let me use hers )  to one with a camera !   Not kidding its one step up from two cans and some string   wife calls me a luddite,     cheers bob        stay safe!

[Bert Melert]

These are views i thought may be of help for detail finishing or kit modification. One photo you  may note shows the propeller, a detail I haven’t seen reproduced in model form. I don’t know if it would add or detract from the model’s appearance.

 

[BobG]

4 hours ago, Bert Melert said:

These are views i thought may be of help for detail finishing or kit modification. One photo you  may note shows the propeller, a detail I haven’t seen reproduced in model form. I don’t know if it would add or detract from the model’s appearance.

Those photos are fantastic! Thanks so much for posting them here, Bert. Where did you find them? I've been looking at whatever I could find on the internet but I haven't seen a couple of those.

 

Regarding the propeller: Did the first, original Pen Duick I have and engine? The kit I am building has it as a sail powered yacht only.

 

I finding out that there could be a lot of modifications made to the kit to make the model more authentic but I'm don't think I would be confident to try and do some of them at my skill level.

[Bert Melert]

https://books.google.com/books/about/William_Fife.html?id=94CWKggCHSwC

 

Click on ‘preview book’ and you will find a treasure trove!

That’s if the link works!

I searched to see to buy the book, only to find it priced at £175. At little out of my price range!

 

 

[BobG]

1 hour ago, Bert Melert said:

Click on ‘preview book’ and you will find a treasure trove!

There are a lot of gorgeous yachts in that book! In the photo below it looks like the hull forms a sharp edge with the deck at the stern. It's hard to tell exactly since the photo is dark in that area but that's what it looks like to me. I've already faired the hull and I have a bit of a lip instead of an edge where the hull meets the stern on my model. I suppose I could do some more sanding and try to replicate that shape. I'm not sure that the model was designed that way though and whether that would cause a problem when it comes to the planking. I'll think about it more and see.

 

Rather coarse mahogany is provided in the kit for the deck structures and it has very open grain and is quite dark...much darker than the wood you see in the photos. I think that might be teak that was used on the original boat and it has a much tighter grain and is lighter and more orange than the mahogany provided in the kit. 

 

[Bert Melert]

As you say it’s difficult to tell accurately from that angle but I wouldn’t do anything drastic from one photograph.
I’ve looked again at the book in the link and the plan on page 14 shows a sharp hull to deck intersection at the stern so you could be right.

[BobG]

I completed framing the hatches with mahogany, glued down the mahogany king plank and  lined the steersman hatch with mahogany strips. I thought these would be a simple tasks and that would be completed quickly. Wrong...at least for me. I spent a good portion of 2 days getting them done. It actually turned out to be more involved than I thought it would be.

 

First of all, the mahogany wood is dry and brittle so it's chips and breaks easily and I had to be very careful cutting it. I don't have a table saw so I cut all the miter joint corners by hand. I worked slowly trying to get the measurements exact and the angles cut correctly so they would match up well. It took me quite a bit of time to take accurate measurements,  lay out and draw the angles and then cut them cleanly.

 

In order to prevent the cut edges from chipping, I placed a piece of masking tape under the mahogany strips and made the cuts with a sharp #11 blade using many cutting strokes across the grain. Later, I found that once I got the cut started I could then use a very fine tooth hobby saw to make the cut also. Both way worked pretty well but the whole process was time consuming.

The most forward deck hatch is the shape of an isosceles trapezoid so I had to revisit my rusty geometry skills to figure out the the angles for the miter joints. After much consternation, I figured out that the angles I needed were 48.8 degrees at the top of the triangle and 41.2 degrees at the bottom although several pieces ended up in the scrap pile before I got it right.

 

48.8 degree angles were needed at the top of the isosceles trapezoid:

41.2 degree angles were needed at the bottom of the isosceles trapezoid:

Next up was to glue the 10 mm mahogany king plank down the center of the deck. You would think that would be a very simple task but it to took me quite a bit of time. There are several sections to the king plank and they all need to be exactly centered on the deck equidistant from outer edges of the deck on both sides. Any variation in centering would create problems with getting the deck planks symmetrical where they meet on each side of the king plank especially since I want to try make joggles in the king plank for the decking strips.

Finally, I drilled the hole for the mast and test fit it and its a good, tight fit.

Thanks for stopping by my build log.

 

[hof00]

Looking good Sir!!

I guess that now the fun begins.... 😁

 

Good to take your time with this stuff.

 

Cheers....HOF.

[Bert Melert]

Meticulous and methodical. Impressive technique, well done.

[BobG]

15 hours ago, hof00 said:

Looking good Sir!!

I guess that now the fun begins.... 😁

Thanks Harry. We'll see if I'll try and have as much fun as you did!

 

Cheers!

[BobG]

2 hours ago, Bert Melert said:

Meticulous and methodical. Impressive technique, well done.

Thank you, Bert.

 

If I have learned one things during my short time in this hobby, it's that I have much better outcomes when I don't rush the process. I even find that it's sometimes best to just just to stop and "sleep on it" when I'm uncertain how to proceed. It's amazing to me, that when I do that, I often get up the next day with more clarity about what to do. It's like there is some unconscious problem solving that goes on when we sleep that can be very insightful. 

[BobG]

I began planking the deck today. Before I started the planking I decided to cut out a portion of king plank at the stern so that the curved mahogany piece that frames the stern would lay flat on the false deck instead of being on top of the deck planks. I did this because placing it on top of the deck planks would make the stern profile thicker. I've seen some photos recently that show that the deck and the hull at the stern form a rather sharp edge and not a thick lip. I'm thinking of fairing the hull more at the stern to achieve more of an edge there so I didn't want any more thickness in that area.

 

I glued on the mahogany margin plank first and cut it the king plank parallel to it where they met near the bow. The regular deck planks are ramin wood. I took a ramin plank and laid it tight against the margin plank. Then I drew the outline of the joggle around the ramin plank where it overlaid the king plank. The first joggle began at the intersection of the margin plank and the king plank. After that plank was glued in place I would repeat the process and, eventually, began to cut joggles at the stern also as the planks wrapped around deck profile.

 

This was very slow going for me but I'm enjoyed doing it. I don't have a table saw so I used a sharp #11 blade and a scalpel at times to carefully cut out the joggles. I had to go very slowly since the mahogany king plank is prone to tearing. That happened a couple of times but I was able to repair it. I used medium CA for gluing the planks. I would apply the CA to a portion of the plank and then lay it tightly in place. Then I would gently lift the plank and apply CA to another section of the plank and lay it down etc, etc. 

 

I began simulating the caulking by using a black sharpie on the edges of the planks but it was looking uneven to me so I ended up just using a #2 pencil to darken the edges of the planks. It isn't the neatest job but I'm ok with it so far.

 

I decided not to cut joggles in the sides of the framing around the hatches but I'm now thinking that I may want to do that. That means I'll need to rip out the last plank I finished today. I'll sleep on it and see how I feel about it tomorrow.

 

[BobG]

I just noticed that I made a big mistake in way that I cut the joggles in the king plank. The ends of the deck planks should be perpendicular to the edges of the king plank not at an angle as I have done them. I like how they look the way I cut them but it's not correct. Of course, the kit doesn't include any joggles at all so they are decorative addition by choice.

 

So now I have to think about whether I should rip it all out and redo it or continue on the way I've been doing them. I actually think they look pretty good the way they are so maybe I'll just consider this my artistic choice...

[egkb]

Hi Bob .. She will look great either way as you are doing wonderful work here! I completely agree with the taking your time aspect, even to the point (for me) that some days if I don't feel things are going right I just stop and come back to it later, instead of trying to battle on and doing a less than decent job of it.. We put too much 'heart' into our builds to rush into it sometimes ..

 

Keep Up The Great Work

 

Eamonn

[BobG]

6 hours ago, egkb said:

She will look great either way as you are doing wonderful work here!

Thanks for the encouragement, Emmonn.

 

I think I will just continue with the joggles like I have been doing them. The kit doesn't call for them at all. I decided to do them after looking at a couple of models that have been posted here on MSW and from some photos I've seen on the internet. I think they look really good on the deck so I decided to try and do them. I was apprehensive about it because it requires some very precise work to get them to look good but I got really engrossed in doing them yesterday. I liked the way they looked as I was cutting them out, so much so, that I had a brain fart and completely forgot that joggles typically have the ends of the deck planks perpendicular to the center line of the boat. Oh well...

 

I looked at it this morning and, you know what, I like them the way they are. So I'm going to keep them just as they are and I'm also only going to cut joggles in the king plank and not the edges of the hatches. I think it looks clean and sharp that way. It's certainly not historically correct but neither are other aspects of this kit. For example, the boat should also have a screw and there are quite a few more rows of deck planks on the real boat compared to the number that are provided in the kit.

 

My build will certainly not be 100% historically accurate when it is finished but I think it can still be a very nice model when it's done and a pretty good representation of this beautiful yacht.

 

Cheers! 

 

 

[vaddoc]

Just finished going through your log Bob, this is a very nice boat and those guys in the video were handling her very handsomely in that tight space!

It has a pretty complex and fun rigging with a flying topsail and Highfield levers etc. Your photos gave me a few ideas for the rigging of the Deben which is similar.

You re off to a good start, looking forward for the rest of the journey

[BobG]

Thanks vaddoc. I agree, the Pen Duick is a gorgeous sailboat with very interesting sails. I'll have take a look at your Deben build. Thanks for stopping by.

[sticker]

Hi bob  remember in my post a little while back i think i mentioned that its your model you can do whatever you like ,the pic on the box is really a guide ,its not a jig saw .ithink what youre doing looks just fine  ,my models are not perfect and they have my own touch  , the people that see them are never going to pull them down because of inaccuracies ,they just wouldnt know . Keep it up ,youre doing great

 

 

 

[BobG]

1 hour ago, sticker said:

Keep it up ,youre doing great

Thanks sticker. I've been doing some more deck planking today and I'm having fun doing it plus I like the way my joggles are looking as more of the deck is completed. Considering it, as you said, as "having my own personal touch" is a nice way of looking at it.

 

I think most of us want our models to have a high degree of accuracy but, unless you are a master ship modeler who scratch builds everything down to the finest, historical accuracy, our models will not be 100% accurate and they can still be very fine models that we're proud of.  

[VTHokiEE]

This is really coming along very nicely! I like what you’ve done with the joggles. I see that you used a #11 blade, I wonder if chisels would work (I’m simply looking for an excuse to add a chisel set really).