74 Gun | Ship of the Line - 3rd Rate | Blender

[Sailor1234567890]

A little late to the party but yes, that circled part is the bitt which has the pinrail incorporated into it. There'll often be a sheave or two in the base of the uprights as well. 

[Kurtis]

7 hours ago, Sailor1234567890 said:

A little late to the party but yes, that circled part is the bitt which has the pinrail incorporated into it. There'll often be a sheave or two in the base of the uprights as well. 

Thank you!

 

This project is on hold at the moment as I have other higher priority projects but I do admit I've learned tons about both 3D modelling and ship-building so I'm wondering whether it's worth trying to finish what I was doing with this or let it draw to a conclusion and start again afresh (with many new ideas, tricks, tips and thoughts for a better workflow, plus some of the feedback on this very thread.)  Either way, I can't do much more work on it because my computer can't keep up. Hoping to try and get new equipment soon.

 

I am thinking of adding the sails to this model though at least cos I have the masts and yardams in place and it would help with the next model understanding how it all comes together. I have the reading material to assist with that available to me.

[Kurtis]

I have decided to try and give my ship a second go around this time by starting again afresh. I've only just started it but I feel like I've made some good progress on it already.

 

I wasn't sure whether to post it in this thread or start a new one.

 

[mtaylor]

Keep going on this thread, Kurtis.   Same project but your re-doing it much like someone in a build log who starts over.

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Hi Kurtis, I’m intrigued - you’re doing all this in Blender? Even after several attempts at learning the absolute basics, I cannot figure out that programme. Any suggestions on good beginners tutorials? I’d like to be able to model figures that are dimensionally accurate. I use F360 a lot but it can be heavy going on stuff that, I’m sure, is a breeze in blender.

[Kurtis]

6 hours ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

Hi Kurtis, I’m intrigued - you’re doing all this in Blender? Even after several attempts at learning the absolute basics, I cannot figure out that programme. Any suggestions on good beginners tutorials? I’d like to be able to model figures that are dimensionally accurate. I use F360 a lot but it can be heavy going on stuff that, I’m sure, is a breeze in blender.

hi Kevin;

 

Yeah, I'm doing it all in Blender. It's my favorite program these days!

 

It's difficult to point you towards beginner tutorials cos it depends largely on what you want to do with Blender. There's a lot of of bad-practices being taught with some of the more popular Blender teachers as well. The BlenderGuru is a good example; he's very good at bringing in new people (his donut tutorials for example are prolific) and he regularly posts free tutorials, but I wouldn't take everything he says as gospel.

 

I was thinking of creating a course on Udemy showing how to recreate a ship like the one I'm building now. I wonder how well received it would be because it's not a beginner-friendly topic persé, but it would teach you many, many different aspects of Blender.

 

As far as being dimensionally accurate goes, Blender is not really a tool for creating super-accurate blueprint-like recreations; it's certainly possible (and I'm trying with this ship this time around) but the tools for measuring and precision are not as refined as you would expect in some other packages dedicated to that purpose, like Fusion. Blender is built more for creating models for still (artistic) images and animations which is pretty much my own end-goal.

 

That all said, what kind of model figures are you thinking of creating?

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by Kurtis

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Are you familiar with the Victory? Actually, this is common to many ships, but on Victory there are two figurines forming part of the figurehead at the bow, and two more in relief on the stern. While the overall sizes need to be fairly accurate, certainly to within 0.5mm, that’s the only important dimensional parameter. Right now I’m looking to do the stern figurines using the Forms function in F360 as I at least know how to begin with that, but even there I suspect i’ll spend many, many hours of being frustrated and fed up! I won’t even try to do those for the bow until and unless I can get my head around a proper sculpting package like Blender. BTW, I’m not at all hinting at ‘could you do them for me’, I could buy them easily and cheaply enough, but would much rather learn how to do it myself so that, at the end of the day, I have the satisfaction of knowing ‘I made that’.

[Kurtis]

Do you mean the figureheads behind the main shield at the front?

 

I would say that Fusion is probably not the best package for creating these simply because (I believe) it's more for mechanical objects/architecture/CAD. Creating statues or characters like this would be much better done in Blender. If you're interested in trying to sculpt them, many say Zbrush is actually better. You can use Blender then to retopologise and lower the poly-count.

 

Looking at the Quarter Galleries of HMS Victory, I would say it's a simpleish model to recreate. The hardest part would perhaps be the hair with the detail (I would do it as a seperate object most likely,) but you should be able to just trace the torso and limbs, and then push the vertices out to create a 3D shape you can attach to whatever project you're doing. The key thing to ask yourself with this is how much detail you actually want; if you want tons of detail, you'll need more vertices and that can lead to more frustration unless you're extremely confident and competent.

 

If you get stuck with something particular though, give me a shout and I'll see if I can help!

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Yes, them’s the chaps. I’ve played with the free version of zbrushcoremini previously and, as it is just sculpting I want to do, for resin printing, I’ll have another look at it. And thanks, I may well come back to you with some really basic questions if you don’t mind. I was the same with fusion, once I understood a few fundamentals it all came easy.

[Tommy Vercetti]

Nice work! How is your ship looking nowadays? Any progress? I would surely like to check it out because I've been trying to do a ship in Blender too and it looks like our hull references are the same, I used Bellona as a base for the hull. Although the model I'm trying to build is more like a prop for a game so it's more of an artistic work where I am using many references rather than creating a genuine representation of a particular model. It proved to be quite difficult to do a ship especially since I haven't found any 3D tutorials for models of this kind.

[Kurtis]

9 hours ago, Tommy Vercetti said:

Nice work! How is your ship looking nowadays? Any progress? I would surely like to check it out because I've been trying to do a ship in Blender too and it looks like our hull references are the same, I used Bellona as a base for the hull. Although the model I'm trying to build is more like a prop for a game so it's more of an artistic work where I am using many references rather than creating a genuine representation of a particular model. It proved to be quite difficult to do a ship especially since I haven't found any 3D tutorials for models of this kind.

hi Tommy;

Thanks for the interest!

The project is still on hold at the moment whilst I sort other things in my life out. Your messsage has come at a convenient time in a way cos I was hoping to resume in the next week or so.

I understand the problem with a lack of tutorials For me, the issue is more about the individual parts, how they're supposed to look and function. On ships like these, there are tons of them! I'm hoping when I get underway again that I can post here and ask questions (hopefully not to the extent that the community gets annoyed 🥴)

I'd be interested in seeing your work if you're willing to post them. We can share tips that way as well if you're so inclined!

Edited March 20, 2022 by Kurtis

[Tommy Vercetti]

On 3/20/2022 at 8:20 PM, Kurtis said:

hi Tommy;

Thanks for the interest!

The project is still on hold at the moment whilst I sort other things in my life out. Your messsage has come at a convenient time in a way cos I was hoping to resume in the next week or so.

I understand the problem with a lack of tutorials For me, the issue is more about the individual parts, how they're supposed to look and function. On ships like these, there are tons of them! I'm hoping when I get underway again that I can post here and ask questions (hopefully not to the extent that the community gets annoyed 🥴)

I'd be interested in seeing your work if you're willing to post them. We can share tips that way as well if you're so inclined!

Hi Kurtis,

 

that's some very good news! I have the same situation, I started this a few months ago but put on hold because had some other things with higher priority. But last week I resumed it and hope will finish soon and post it on this forum if you're interested.

 

Just like you, I was also thinking to start from scratch again because I feel like I know a lot more now but I am reluctant to do it, because even if I start again I'm sure there will always be some things to improve anyway. I hope I will have time to a new model in the future that will look better and more realistic and authentic.

 

And yes, indeed, modeling itself is quite simple, no complex shapes but I got stuck because I never had any experience with ships before. It is hard to make it look at least somewhat realistic without spending a lot of time on researh. I was using this forum to look around some topics and saw many other works that helped me a lot though but it seems I still just touched the tip of the iceburg. I think it can take me years to learn about this ship stuff 

[Kurtis]

Alright, here's attempt three! I've spent the last of week or so putting this together and trying to get the shape of the hull as correct as possible. much happier with the back (sp rear tansom?) than I have been with previous models. Happier with gun-ports, decking and walls.

 

I've started a video based build log if anyone is interested (admittedly, I'm not too sure how often I'll update it.)  You can find it here.

 

[Kurtis]

Some general progress. Mostly working on the main exterior features at the minute (wale and lines, wall panels, etc.)

[Kurtis]

Lately I've been quite busy sorting out personal problems and projects, but I've managed to give this a little attention. Due to record a vlog for it fairly soon.

 

 

I gotta say, looking at the original post and this one, I'm a bit embarrased. The more I pick up, the more painful the original project is to look at! I'm sorry. 😨

Edited June 22, 2022 by Kurtis

[mtaylor]

16 hours ago, Kurtis said:

I gotta say, looking at the original post and this one, I'm a bit embarrased. The more I pick up, the more painful the original project is to look at! I'm sorry. 😨

I  believe that's normal for any craft or design work.  The more you work at it and with it, the better it becomes.  Don't be embarrassed as learning curve can be steep.

[Kurtis]

1 hour ago, mtaylor said:

I  believe that's normal for any craft or design work.  The more you work at it and with it, the better it becomes.  Don't be embarrassed as learning curve can be steep.

Yeah, you're right. It just puts some of the earlier posts, especially Mark's, in a new perspective. I may have come across a bit boastful at the time  that's why I was apologising. I let pride get in the way of some good criticisms. Still, live and learn!

 

I do have a question actually; do you know where I can find information about the uniform the officers (and even seamen) wore around this time? The reason I ask is because I want to start modelling humans very soon and it would be nice to get some characters on the decks. Paintings help to an extent but I'd like a breakdown of the differences between the captain, his leiutenants, and the midshipmen if possible and I'm looking to make them reasonably accurate. Pictures (with descriptions) broken down into individual garments would be a massive help!

Edited June 22, 2022 by Kurtis

[mtaylor]

No worries, Kurtis. You're in good company here.   

 

As for uniforms... do a Google for "military uniforms"... and also explore Wikipedia.  Depending on the era and country, there's lots of stuff out there.  Also, ask the question in the Ship Plans and Project Research area. 

[Kevin-the-lubber]

This is impressive stuff Kurtis. I’ve never been able to get to grips with Blender for some reason, possibly because it seems to be more art than engineering.

[Kurtis]

On 6/23/2022 at 1:32 AM, mtaylor said:

No worries, Kurtis. You're in good company here.   

 

As for uniforms... do a Google for "military uniforms"... and also explore Wikipedia.  Depending on the era and country, there's lots of stuff out there.  Also, ask the question in the Ship Plans and Project Research area. 

Thank you. I did do a Google search and have come across some good references but it can be difficult to distinguish between era and rank. I was thinking more along the lines of books or the like that you or someone else might know about? I will heed your advice and ask in the dedicated forum when I'm closer to that task.

 

Quote

This is impressive stuff Kurtis. I’ve never been able to get to grips with Blender for some reason, possibly because it seems to be more art than engineering.

Aye, I would definitely say Blender is art over architecture. I love the software but it's definitely not meant for technical CAD drawings! 😆I'm happy to hear you find it impressive, it helps give me the inspiration to continue working on it.

 

Some more minor work; I've just completed the fencing on the forecastle, poop deck and quarterdeck. I didn't realise there was a step onto the midway planking (sp?) between the said forecastle and quarterdeck. Threw my progress in that area into a bit of a loop but I seem to have overcome the problem. 

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by Kurtis

[Kurtis]

Alright, I've had a go at developing the bow section again (been dreading this a little so I figured I'd try it.) Doesn't seem to be coming out too bad at the moment. I've added the cat-ears, the start of the bow rails, some gratings, and will finish up the remainder soon.

 

I've had another look at these and the references and made more adjustments to what's already there (mostly sizes and positions of things), so will probably post them on a next update.

 

Wanted to say thanks to @harlequin with their thread of the same ship. Some of the photographs especially have helped me solve some problems that the references and prints I currently have haven't helped much with.

 

 

"Wood panels" look a bit washed out on the bottom pictures cos I haven't textured them yet. I've also switched off the smoothing for performance reasons so some of them look a bit jagged.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Kurtis

[Kurtis]

I have tried to spend more time on the bow and getting the final railings in there plus the anchor line holes. Seems I've buggered up the corner of the circular pillars there a bit. Not much I can do about it really except destroy everything at the front and start that bit again (the prints really were confusing me there)  but I feel it's a fairly minor area to keep mindful of if/when I tackle another build. It's easily hidden by the railings anyway.

 

The above said, I'm generally very happy with current progress. I feel it's pretty much time to have another go with the stern.

 

May I ask? The fencelines along the length of the ship including the forecastle. Most references seem to have them in black/dark blue which leads me to think they were metallic. Given the nature that early forecastles were built for, it would make a bit of sense to have them this way. Would I be right in thinking that logically, having metal fences would just add a ton of weight to the ship and that they were just simply painted in a dark colour?

 

 

[harlequin]

no worries.....glad they were of some use..

 

[garyshipwright]

Hi Kurtis. Am not sure what information you have on the knee of the head but the place where the figure head set's is only 5". It tapers from the stem which is 1' 4 1/2" down to the 5 inch's. It also tapers from  the Gripe which is a part of the whole knee and is the lowest part which is attach to the front of the  keel  and is taper going up from 14"down to  5 inches where the figure head sit. If you don't show the taper it probably throw off the placement of the rail's. Hope am not stepping on any one toes but just wanting to help were I can. She looks great and wish I could do this type of work on the computer but am sort of the drafting table type guy. Do hope this is some help to you. Gary

Edited July 28, 2022 by garyshipwright

[Kurtis]

1 hour ago, garyshipwright said:

Hi Kurtis. Am not sure what information you have on the knee of the head but the place where the figure head set's is only 5". It tapers from the stem which is 1' 4 1/2" down to the 5 inch's. It also tapers from  the Gripe which is a part of the whole knee and is the lowest part which is attach to the front of the  keel  and is taper going up from 1' 3" down to the 5 inches where the figure head sit. If you don't show the taper it probably through off the placement of the rail's. Hope am not stepping on any one toes but just wanting to help were I can. She looks great and wish I could do this type of work on the computer but am sort of the drafting table type guy. Do hope this is some help to you. Gary

hi Gary,

 

No stubbed toes here! I've put some steel-toe caps on 😆

 

Thank you very much for taking the time to post your feedback. I love receiving it and do wish to try and implement as much as I can. I do feel that there's a bit of a language barrier here; I'm not a ship-builder/modeller by trade so much of the jargon and technicalities does go over my head which is frustrating. This is the first full ship project I've ever tried to undertake (third attempt) so I'm still learning the jargon and speel as well as the actual ship-building process itself.

 

Please forgive my layman speech; from what I can understand about your message, are  you refering specifically to the center piece that runs through the entire ship to the rudder? One of the posts earlier in the thread made a point that it should taper down and I've done that with this but the camera angle would make it less noticable? From what I understand, you're basically saying it's too thick (so I've adjusted accordingly.) The width of this piece I tried to follow blueprints with but the print would not show any tapering from the top view so had to be added after advice. Of course you mention the figurehead, so I figure you may mean it tapers going forward too? Would the "knee head" be referring to the bow "balcony" where the crew did their business?

 

The placement of the (mid) rails were certainlty a cause for some confusion. I couldn't qutie work out how they were supposed to intersect with the rails going the opposite way, so I plan to take another look at them but I want to find some more good close references / plans / descriptions for them.

 

The "gripe" is a completely new term to me. I can't find any reference to it in a dictionary.

 

Looking at the above adjustments, I feel like it makes more sense with taking into account what you've said and how I've understood it.

 

If it helps, I might be able to post an image with some numbers at key positions on the ship so that we can at least point to the same thing with future posts?

Edited July 27, 2022 by Kurtis

[garyshipwright]

Hi Kurtis. The part that you talk about the runs completed through the ship is the keel. It did in fact taper from the middle to both ends being 18 inches squared in the middle,14" at the gripe and 12 1/2" at the forward edge of the rudder. The area where the crew took care of their business was a small deck which had seat's of ease, better known as toilets, and was called the beakhead . As far as finding out what the gripe in todays  dictionary, does not exist so what you need is a dictionary from the 18th century like Falconer Universal Dictionary of the Marine. Can't remember other one's but there out there.  I took a picture of the 74 gun ship Bellona which shows the parts of the knee of the head along with the other parts that make up the knee. Some thing about figure B3/2 at the top is the stem at it widest at the top and shows that it also get's tapered going down to the keel(item 1) . In front of the stem is the  knee of the head once it has been tapered.  Photo B3/2 show's a head on view of the taper from the stem- (item 3) to the  seat of the figure head ( item 16) . the taper also goes from the Gripe (Item 6) at the bottom of the knee  to the seat of the figure head( item 16)  I also added  another couple of photo's showing how the rail's was done. The photo's should help you and if you need any more info or just what a word means just let me know. When I started building them the biggest hurdle was figuring out what word went with what item of the ship. Thought I was going to go bonkers trying to figure them out. Gary

Edited July 28, 2022 by garyshipwright

[mtaylor]

Kurtis,  try to find a copy of zu Mondfeld's  Historic Ship Models.  They seem very reasonably priced on Ebay.   While there are some issues and inaccuracies, overall, it does a good job of explaining terminology.  

[garyshipwright]

Hi Mark that was the other one I was thinking about, just couldn't remember it so thank you Mark. Kurtis I saw some for $20 on line  and up , should be a big help when searching ship terms. Gary

Edited July 28, 2022 by garyshipwright

[mtaylor]

Glad to help with the memory, Gray.   I keep mine near at hand just because the mental memory chips sometimes short out.

 

I'll add a link here, but for a different souce.  Not very well illustrated but I've found it useful:  https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20110215215247/http://southseas.nla.gov.au/refs/falc/contents.html

[Kurtis]

hi Gary;

 

Those prints are indeed fantastic! Do you know where I would go to get them in full for myself (whether it's digital or physical?) References like those would save many a head-ache and guesses! The ones I've relied on tend to be model ship prints that you find with kits or models already built so the detail isn't there so much.

 

I'll have a closer look at the bow and will likely rebuild the rails with these references you've given me because they do make a little more sense. I'm still trying to work out where exactly you've put all the measurements but I may put the question to you in the future.

 

@mtaylor Cheers for the heads up. I've found a copy with the ISBN 978-0806957333. I've got one on order so will likely receive it next week.