Battle of Waterloo Attack on La Haye Sainte Farm by Old Collingwood - 1/56 (28mm)

[Old Collingwood]

Hi all, another day spent completing my second KGL 5th  then more pics.

 

OC.

[Edwardkenway]

The odds are swinging in favour of the British now! Only 1 to 2😆

Keep it up and you'll have both forces done by autumn!!!

Very nice work 

[Old Collingwood]

21 minutes ago, Edwardkenway said:

The odds are swinging in favour of the British now! Only 1 to 2😆

Keep it up and you'll have both forces done by autumn!!!

Very nice work 

Thank you Edward, yep its slow work  but to be honest its best that way  as If I rushed myself I think I would make a real bad job of it  - kind of cant be rushed.

 

OC.

[Old Collingwood]

This is kind of what I am trying to re create  but at a slighty earlier stage  (so without as much frenzy)   as this very fine piece of art  (not mine)  represents the scene late in the day after the farm had repulsed Two or Three attacks.

In the center is Major Baring on his horse  directing his men as best he could.

 

I think to build something to this level of detail might take me a few years.

 

As I stated  its not my picture  its off the net.

 

OC.

[Roger Pellett]

My limited knowledge of the Battle of Waterloo dates back many years when I got excited about painting Airfix 54mm plastic figures so my question may be “off the wall”

 

Why did Napoleon expend so much effort on attacking La Haye Sainte?  His mission was to rout the Allied Armies.  Had he succeeded in breaking Wellington’s main battle line this outpost would have been untenable.  Was it so heavily manned to constitute a viable threat to the columns attacking Wellington’s main line? 

 

Roger

 

 

[Old Collingwood]

9 minutes ago, Roger Pellett said:

My limited knowledge of the Battle of Waterloo dates back many years when I got excited about painting Airfix 54mm plastic figures so my question may be “off the wall”

 

Why did Napoleon expend so much effort on attacking La Haye Sainte?  His mission was to rout the Allied Armies.  Had he succeeded in breaking Wellington’s main battle line this outpost would have been untenable.  Was it so heavily manned to constitute a viable threat to the columns attacking Wellington’s main line? 

 

Roger

 

 

Napoleon wanted to use it as a  forward attack base to attack Wellingtons lines with some cannons, both sides knew the importance of the farm.

 

OC.

[Edwardkenway]

8 minutes ago, Roger Pellett said:

My limited knowledge of the Battle of Waterloo dates back many years when I got excited about painting Airfix 54mm plastic figures so my question may be “off the wall”

 

Why did Napoleon expend so much effort on attacking La Haye Sainte?  His mission was to rout the Allied Armies.  Had he succeeded in breaking Wellington’s main battle line this outpost would have been untenable.  Was it so heavily manned to constitute a viable threat to the columns attacking Wellington’s main line? 

 

Roger

 

 

 No it wasn't heavily manned but as it was sat on the main road across the valley and in the centre any columns attacking down this road would have been enfiladed by the farm garrison and morale weakened before they reached Wellingtons line, also once past the garrison could sally out and attack the rear of the column that was being blasted by the rolling platoon volleys from the British line in front. So he didn't want a thorn like that in his side.

In my opinion, if he had left Hougoument and concentrated on his centre and his right flank he probably could of routed the British and her allies before Prussian forces appeared on his right.

But that is only my opinion with the benefits of hindsight and a wealth of historical information. 

Other better informed people may have differ reasons for his distraction with the farm and Hougoument. 

 

 

[Egilman]

4 hours ago, Roger Pellett said:

My limited knowledge of the Battle of Waterloo dates back many years when I got excited about painting Airfix 54mm plastic figures so my question may be “off the wall”

 

Why did Napoleon expend so much effort on attacking La Haye Sainte?  His mission was to rout the Allied Armies.  Had he succeeded in breaking Wellington’s main battle line this outpost would have been untenable.  Was it so heavily manned to constitute a viable threat to the columns attacking Wellington’s main line? 

 

Roger

 

 

It wasn't that heavily manned but it was sitting partially in the center/flank of his advance, not completely surrounded Napoleon did not have enough troops to completely take the field (he seldom did) but his tactics were to hold center and break a flank on one side or the other...

 

Why did he need to reduce the farm? Because he changed his normal tactics. He wanted to break Wellington's center.... (while he still had the chance)

 

For the same reason Burnside needed to reduce Marye's Heights at Fredricksburg, with the position held by the enemy, artillery from that position would create a devastating cross fire on any assaulting units attacking the main enemy positions.... Burnside could not reduce the heights cause of Longstreet's cannon covered the approaches, the same reason Napoleon could not outflank Wellington before the Prussians arrived because reducing the farm quickly proved impossible..... He could not leave it there and place his main column in such a cross fire situation overlooked by artillery.... He had to reduce it before the prussians arrived....

 

He finally did take it and brought his artillery up to pulverize the British center with cannister..... in support of his main thrust in breaking Wellington's center.... Except the Prussian cavalry attacked breaking thru on the flank routing the French heavy infantry and closing the battlefield around him....

 

By taking the farm, Napoleon almost won the battle.... But the Prussians arrived, earlier than expected. Immediately going on attack, they instituted their flanking maneuver, allowing the British and allied reinforcements to concentrate on the main thrust which was barely contained in front of resolute french assaults....  

 

The British had finally learned how to defeat Napoleon.....

 

Many say it was pure luck, Was it luck? I don't think so, I agree with von Clausewitz... (chief of staff of the Prussian III corps)..... 

 

"Bonaparte and the authors who support him have always attempted to portray the great catastrophes that befell him as the result of chance. They seek to make their readers believe that through his great wisdom and extraordinary energy the whole project had already moved forward with the greatest confidence, that complete success was but a hair's breadth away, when treachery, accident, or even fate, as they sometimes call it, ruined everything. He and his supporters do not want to admit that huge mistakes, sheer recklessness, and, above all, overreaching ambition that exceeded all realistic possibilities, were the true causes." -- Clausewitz & Feldzug von 1815 (Campaign of 1815), Chapter 3.

 

It was a turning point of history..... 

 

Definitely one to be remembered.....

[Old Collingwood]

7 minutes ago, Egilman said:

It wasn't that heavily manned but it was sitting partially in the center/flank of his advance, not completely surrounded Napoleon did not have enough troops to completely take the field (he seldom did) but his tactics were to hold center and break a flank on one side or the other...

 

Why did he need to reduce the farm? Because he changed his normal tactics. He wanted to break Wellington's center.... (while he still had the chance)

 

For the same reason Burnside needed to reduce Marye's Heights at Fredricksburg, with the position held by the enemy, artillery from that position would create a devastating cross fire on any assaulting units attacking the main enemy positions.... Burnside could not reduce the heights cause of Longstreet's cannon covered the approaches, the same reason Napoleon could not outflank Wellington before the Prussians arrived because reducing the farm quickly proved impossible..... He could not leave it there and place his main column in such a cross fire situation overlooked by artillery.... He had to reduce it before the prussians arrived....

 

He finally did take it and brought his artillery up to pulverize the British center with cannister..... in support of his main thrust in breaking Wellington's center.... Except the Prussian cavalry attacked breaking thru on the flank routing the French heavy infantry and closing the battlefield around him....

 

By taking the farm, Napoleon almost won the battle.... But the Prussians arrived, earlier than expected. Immediately going on attack, they instituted their flanking maneuver, allowing the British and allied reinforcements to concentrate on the main thrust which was barely contained in front of resolute french assaults....  

 

The British had finally learned how to defeat Napoleon.....

 

Many say it was pure luck, Was it luck? I don't think so, I agree with von Clausewitz... (chief of staff of the Prussian III corps)..... 

 

"Bonaparte and the authors who support him have always attempted to portray the great catastrophes that befell him as the result of chance. They seek to make their readers believe that through his great wisdom and extraordinary energy the whole project had already moved forward with the greatest confidence, that complete success was but a hair's breadth away, when treachery, accident, or even fate, as they sometimes call it, ruined everything. He and his supporters do not want to admit that huge mistakes, sheer recklessness, and, above all, overreaching ambition that exceeded all realistic possibilities, were the true causes." -- Clausewitz & Feldzug von 1815 (Campaign of 1815), Chapter 3.

 

It was a turning point of history..... 

 

Definitely one to be remembered.....

Thanks mate for explaining all that, fits in with what I have been researching  - certainly was a close call,    also make you wonder what might have happened if Grouchy  with his 33.000  troops  sent off to fight the Prussians - had returned  back to Waterloo in time.

 

OC.

[Egilman]

24 minutes ago, Old Collingwood said:

also make you wonder what might have happened if Grouchy  with his 33.000  troops  sent off to fight the Prussians - had returned  back to Waterloo in time.

Well, Napoloeon knew about General Thielemann's Prussian corps and sent Grouchy to stop it, which he did. What he didn't know about was von Blucher's army (two full corps) until they struck his flank and at that point he was committed and couldn't change his plans. By the time General Grouchy and completed his task of blocking out Thielemann's corps, it was too late to return to Waterloo from Wavre..... (and too late to save Napoleon)

 

Napoleon had the right plan at the right time and the right battlefield to complete it on, problem is, he didn't know how large a Prussian army was coming to assist the allies... Wellington and von Blucher had decided on this course three days before the battle... They guessed right and won the battle when they agreed to send Thielmann's III corps out on the left flank drawing off Napoleons strength. his orders to Grouchy to break off and return to Waterloo arrived too late (8:oopm) and after the battle of Wavre. By that point in time, the die was cast Napoleon was almost surrounded and the first French infantry was beginning to break....

[Old Collingwood]

Hi all,     no photographic evidence of my  latest work  - but basically  I  worked on the faces of another Two  KGL 5th, also I  altered a couple of the cross straps as they would not be there unless the packs were worn, then I layed down the red coat colour on Two of them.

 

After talking to an actual reinactor from a  KGL  reinactment unit,  he told me the plumes should be Green,   as the the  detachments from the KGL were all from the Light  regiment  and Green represented thier unit colour - so as I have Dark Green on order for the various jackets, I will paint the plumes when it arrives.

 

OC.

[Roger Pellett]

Thanks guys for explaining this.  

 

Roger

[Old Collingwood]

10 minutes ago, Roger Pellett said:

Thanks guys for explaining this.  

 

Roger

No problem Roger, basically  it was just a farm with  wall that was  close enough to the English line to be both an annoyance to the French  or a pain in the back side to the English, dependent on who captured it.

 

Oc.

[mtaylor]

One other point about Napoleon at Waterloo.   He was not up to it.  Had (allegedly) the flu or a bad cold.  Thus, his judgement was impaired.   Plus, by the time of Waterloo, several of his trusted and most cunning generals were dead.   I t was a battle he never should have fought.  But Wellington was probably glad he did.

[Old Collingwood]

Indeed Mark,   could have been so different  by the toss of a coin.

 

OC.

[Old Collingwood]

One of those combinations of factors   that lead to the result  but could have swung either way,   I know wellington screamed out for more troops from England but they were not sent,  and on top of that  Napoleons health.

 

Intersting events.

 

OC.

[Edwardkenway]

1 hour ago, mtaylor said:

One other point about Napoleon at Waterloo.   He was not up to it.  Had (allegedly) the flu or a bad cold.  Thus, his judgement was impaired.   Plus, by the time of Waterloo, several of his trusted and most cunning generals were dead.   I t was a battle he never should have fought.  But Wellington was probably glad he did.

Apparently his piles were playing up as well.

Definitely a close run thing, to us Wellingtons words.

I do think if Napoleon had been at Quatre Bras the day before,  the battle at Waterloo probably wouldn't have happened and the British army would be experiencing a retreat to the coast harried by French cavalry. As it was Marshall Ney commanded and did  not start an attack till late in the day which subsequently let the British rearguard hold them while the rest of the army slipped away. 

[Egilman]

27 minutes ago, Edwardkenway said:

Apparently his piles were playing up as well.

Definitely a close run thing, to us Wellingtons words.

I do think if Napoleon had been at Quatre Bras the day before,  the battle at Waterloo probably wouldn't have happened and the British army would be experiencing a retreat to the coast harried by French cavalry. As it was Marshall Ney commanded and did  not start an attack till late in the day which subsequently let the British rearguard hold them while the rest of the army slipped away. 

Yep, both sides took some huge gambles. Wellington knew that he couldn't win without the Prussians, but he knew that von Blucher was on the way with three corps...  three days before the battle Wellington asked Blucher to try and divert some of Nappy's troops away from the battlefield while he prepared to hold.... Wellington took the risk that Blucher would arrive in time to reinforce his line..... Blucher upon arriving saw that Nappy had taken the risk of attacking without covering his left flank sufficiently and concentrated his artillery to reduce the British center.... Instead of reinforcing Wellington, von blucher made the decision to take a shot to end the war right then and there taking a page right out of Nappy's playbook sending his heavy cavalry into Nappy's left flank followed by his heavy infantry and light horse artillery while taking over wellington's right flank with the rest of his forces. This gave Wellington enough strength to withstand Nappy's killing field for a half day longer... And at the same time Blucher set up his own killing field...... Ney was committed fully watching his prize cavalry be decimated anong with the french heavy infantry reserves.....

 

Wellington was right, it was a very close thing. without Blucher's intervention, Napoleon would have routed the British, he wouldn't have had much of an army left to face Blucher but Wellington would have had to withdraw as his army was virtually destroyed.... Napoleon would have lived to fight another day....

 

Neither the British nor the Prussians could have beaten Napoleon on their own, only together in cooperation did they win, but it was still a very close thing.... He almost pulled it off...

 

In the end Napoleon's army was destroyed and he was forced to surrender cause he could not stop the allied advance on Paris following the battle....

 

Timing is everything......

[Canute]

Good stuff here. I need to re-read my Waterloo books to stay in this game.  Fascinating battle/campaign.

 

Been too wrapped up in a read of a rebuttal of the Burns video on Viet Nam. Good read on Kindle.

[Old Collingwood]

Evening all,   I have been doing some comparisons  between the main Two makers of these figures  - Perry and Victrix  and Perry are hands down the better detailed and scale accurate,   so after I finish my next Two  Victrix KGL  5th Light, I will move on to something else.

I still have Two cuirassiers to build  and some more French Infantry, then when my green paint arrives I can start on a couple of Perry  KGL  Green/Grey  Light Riflemen.

 

My thinking is - whne I get the buildings I can hide the lesser detailed figures away  firing from windows etc.

 

OC.

[Old Collingwood]

Evening all, more work today  but back on the first Two  KGL 5th,, with the help from  "Percy  - Percy Verance"                                                                          I had orderd a small jar of  Mr Hobby / Gunze/Sangyo  Acrylic Flat Clear  and it arrived this morning  I had heard excellent  comments about this clear coat  so i was expecting high things from it,   so first things first I gave it a good shake and stir,  then with a soft brush I worked it over the figure  - the Acrylic paintwork was easily 2-3 days old,  but to my ((shock))  the paintwork  started to react and  fade/mix in with each other,  so I dried it  then when set  - I mixed the clear coat about50/50 with distilled water  and tried again, this time it didn't react  but  instead of leaving a flat finish,  it was shiny like a satin finish - so not  what it was supposed to be,  so  I then  decided to fit Two back packs on them and tidy up the paintwork a bit,  by  re applying  the Red and Grey  and then re shading  etc etc.

 

So this is about as good as these Victrix figures are going to get with my skills.

 

OC.

[Canute]

Boy, you are snake-bit with respect to your paints, OC. The two KGL lads look good.; suitably stalwart looking.

[Old Collingwood]

4 minutes ago, Canute said:

Boy, you are snake-bit with respect to your paints, OC. The two KGL lads look good.; suitably stalwart looking.

Indeed Ken, I dont understand it  - why would Acrylic Clear coats react with Very dry/hard Acrylic paint layers, thought they were supposed to be 100% compatable?

 

OC.

[Roger Pellett]

OC,

 

I have been priming my pewter and lead figures with Tamiya fine surface primer.  I have been painting them with Acrylic paints- both “Army Painter Warpaints,” sold by Amazon and Vallejo.  I have detected no difference between the two brands and they seem

to be compatible with each other.

 

I let the Acrylic dry for at least 24 hours, then spray the complete figure with a light coat of  Testor’s Dulcote (Outdoors as my wife objects to the smell).  I believe that Dulcote is a lacquer.  I have had no problems and it dries with a nice matt finish.

 

With the acquisition of Testor’s by Rust-Oleum I am concerned that Dulcote will be discontinued.  With that in mind I recently bought a can of Rust-Oleum’s spray matt finish. We’ll see how that works.

 

Roger

[Old Collingwood]

17 minutes ago, Roger Pellett said:

OC,

 

I have been priming my pewter and lead figures with Tamiya fine surface primer.  I have been painting them with Acrylic paints- both “Army Painter Warpaints,” sold by Amazon and Vallejo.  I have detected no difference between the two brands and they seem

to be compatible with each other.

 

I let the Acrylic dry for at least 24 hours, then spray the complete figure with a light coat of  Testor’s Dulcote (Outdoors as my wife objects to the smell).  I believe that Dulcote is a lacquer.  I have had no problems and it dries with a nice matt finish.

 

With the acquisition of Testor’s by Rust-Oleum I am concerned that Dulcote will be discontinued.  With that in mind I recently bought a can of Rust-Oleum’s spray matt finish. We’ll see how that works.

 

Roger

Can you get a Good brush on primer  to use with acrylics ontop?  as in place of my Tamiya rattle can surface primer, I have just been using a basic Tamiya Flat Black Acrylic  paint  to prime them, perhaps normal paints acting as a primer are not good enough and dont have enough  of a key/grip  to the plastic  - making paint layers not really  bite down on to the plastic  - resulting in the  flat clear  reacting?

Should have remembered back to my Warspite build  and picked up some Vallejo Surface primer.

 

OC.

[Roger Pellett]

I don’t know OC.   All of my figures are pewter or lead (the older ones). I have not tried a brush on primer.  The metal is relatively inert vs the primer.  Plastic introduces a new variable.   What happens if you apply the colors without priming.

 

Roger

[Canute]

OC, the Tamiya spray primer should be the fine stuff. They do make a coarser type, Surface Primer, which might obscure details.

[Old Collingwood]

37 minutes ago, Canute said:

OC, the Tamiya spray primer should be the fine stuff. They do make a coarser type, Surface Primer, which might obscure details.

Yeah its good stuff  used it on my planes  and first few figures  but ran out now,

 

OC.

[Roger Pellett]

I do find that on metal figures, adhesion of the acrylic paint to the primed surface is not great and it is necessary to touch up edges where the paint has worn off while being handled during painting.  A coat of Dulcote after painting seems to provide protection.  

 

I have metal figures that were painted with Floquil paints in the 1980’s and were neither primed or sealed with Dulcote after painting.  They look like they were just painted.

 

Roger

[Kevin]

those figures look brilliant