Cutty Sark by NenadM

[dgbot]

I would stick with movable.

David B

[popeye the sailor]

makes no difference what plans you used to base the hull........it came out great.   I think you did a very good job........shows a great amount of effort on your part.   it's a very interesting method that you used as well.  as far as the rudder goes.......I don't think it matters.

 

      that is........unless you like to move the rudder around a number of times a day      most static models have no moving parts,  but that's not to say that some didn't feature a moving rudder system {like my United States build},  or a moving propeller.  there were a few manufacturers that sold automated models....early Lindberg line and Aurora.   unless there is a problem of it falling off,  every time you move it {the model}....there's no reason to worry.

[NenadM]

And another observation

 

Edge of coopering on rudder is different on old and on new pictures

 

Also, position of depth marker "XX" is different on old and new pictures

 

Hmmmm

 

 

and on C-plans

 

 

And also, there is a slight difference in upper "belt" on which rudder chains have to be connected

[NenadM]

And accidentally found pictures, as a contribution to the earlier discussion about number of windows on broadside of Her

 

In C-plans, there are not side windows except four on front part bellow fore deck

 

In earlier pictures, there are here !!!!

 

In today statement, there are not

 

Hmmmm again

 

 

[dgbot]

Nenad many years ago a fellow modeler made a made a model of the Charles W. Morgan.  He spent 20 years on it because he kept taking things apart and adding in new items as he found them through research.  The end result was a gold medal at Manitowoc.  However he said that there is a time when enough is enough.  As far as I am concerned you have done wonders with what you have.  If you are truly satisified with what you have accomplished and are happy, then do not bother redoing anything.  Once your Cutty is done it will be a great work of modeling and skill.  Remember through out this build you have been learning and expanding your knowledge and skills and are having a lot of fun.  To me this is the great reward not medals and trophys.

David B

[popeye the sailor]

pictures playing tricks on you...........shame on them!      keep in mind that she went through a number of repaints and repairs........the positioning of the numbers may have changed.   also....you must keep in mind that some old black and white pictures tend to hide subtle detail.  don't be discouraged the different photos........different snippets of time  

[NenadM]

I am not discouraged in any way, because somewhere form beginning until now, in my mind main strategy of building this model settled : details as on C-plans and photos, main look of model - as She look today with add of weathering. I realized that if go on accurate historic way - there is question without right answer - how exactly she look at 1902. or 1947. or 1895, or in day when Campbell made his drawings ... or ... There is no absolute correct answer, and some pieces and details must be left to imagination. All this investigation is very interrsting and fun to me, and I hope for you. Analyzing pictures and plans I learn an understand some issues, and ideas comes in a crowd how to make/resolve something. Very enjoyable for me to look and compare, to conclude (right or wrong) and to burn fire of impatience to go to shipyard as soon it is possible

 

I just recorded some interesting points intended to other inexperienced modelers who will be crazy or brave enough to build CS, and who will pay attention to details

 

Thx for support anyway.

 

I was intend to make rudder tonight, but ... life ... very good friend come to drink a beer and to consult about his family and legal things, then Hothedad insisted to fix his broken office chair which inherit from me (kinked bolt in a nut = two hours of "gymnastic"), and as I turn around myself, time is 22:30h, and this is time for book and bed

Edited May 30, 2014 by Nenad M

[NenadM]

Nice working progress today. Make a coffee, take cigarettes, and move down with will and inpatience 

First I make rudder, and fit it to the shape and dimensions, carefully considering position of rudder axis

 

It was pretty easy

 

 

 

 

 

Then starts tricky job - drilling and positioning of hole in stern. After a while, success, but I realized that I must correct: a) angle of stern post width of stern post c) shape of curve on a stern post to be equiall as on rudder 

 

Sanding, "dremelling" , sanding, and rudder fits on its place, with enough space between rudder and stern post for hinge and fittings 

 

 

 

 

 

Next I realized, is that I have to correct end of a keel

 

Follow "deep" surgery, but it was not hard as earlier

 

 

 

And I am satisfied - profile view is exactly I wanted to get, and pretty similar as on plans-pictures

 

And after that, waiting for glue to dry, I did some coopering tests, on testing piece of rudder I made couple of days before

 

Hmmmmmm ( again)

 

 

 

In this testing  "cooper strips" are 5x10 mm. It seems that it has to be little more narrow - 4mm, and it means -  for 1/5 of their number more ... 

 

Next tests are in line to be done, this is TOO MUCH SHINEY

Edited June 1, 2014 by Nenad M

[popeye the sailor]

it turned out quite nicely..........it looks super!

[Lou van Wijhe]

And accidentally found pictures, as a contribution to the earlier discussion about number of windows on broadside of Her

 

In C-plans, there are not side windows except four on front part bellow fore deck

 

In earlier pictures, there are here !!!!

 

In today statement, there are not

 

 

Nenad,

 

The Campbell plans are correct if you want to build her like she was in her working days. The long row of windows in addition to the front 4 ones were additions  to let light in when she became a museum ship.

 

Lou

[NenadM]

 

 in her working days ...

 

 

 

 

And another slight difference noticed

 

Edited June 1, 2014 by Nenad M

[NenadM]

Still looking for solution to mufle excess of shine to match to look of Muntz metal as in Greenwich

[mtaylor]

Nenad,

 

You can try some semi-gloss or matt finish... poly or lacquer.  Or, try some steel wool of around 0000 grit but test it first.

[rfolsom]

Hello, again, Nenad!  You're making fantastic progress, and your rudder and copper beginnings looks great!  I know I was a little worried about the "shininess" of my copper tape when I started, but after three months of coppering, and the natural oils of my hands rubbing off when cutting and positioning each tile, the copper tarnished nicely... It's been a little over a year since I finished the coppering, and I think the most natural looking weathering is....

 

Actual natural weathering...!

 

Bob

[NenadM]

Nenad,

 

You can try some semi-gloss or matt finish... poly or lacquer.  Or, try some steel wool of around 0000 grit but test it first.

 

 

Mark

 

I found something, and make some experiments, and it seems ok. See next post . Steel wool can not be used on this kind of material - in structure, this is very very very thin plastic (?) foil with selfadhesive layer on one side, and more thinner color layer on other. I think this is all about 0,1 mm thick, but it really seems as metal foil. In Belgrade, even on internet, I just could not found real metal foil 0,1-0,2 mm in desired shade of color

 

 

... little worried about the "shininess"  ...

 

Hello Bob, I am glad you are back to saddle and hope to see your progress on CS soon. If I found real cooper foil, I could not worry about weathering. There are so much weathering techniques on MSW and around, amog them dirty fingers, and there is also Oxigen in air which cooper likes very much  . But I cheat a bit, and intend to use this paper/plastic foil which color is almost the same as on Her Majesty in Greenwich

Edited June 4, 2014 by Nenad M

[NenadM]

I never understood woman ... In Serbia university, there is (for me) strange habit ... Similar as on the end of high school and famous "Prom"

 

When students pass all lectures on last year of study, and when only exams left, they get status so called "apsolvent", which allow them to have exams every month, and ... most important (?!?!?) they can make their "apsolvent`s evening/party" similar as " Prom party" in high school

 

And now, Princess get this status and we all are in her "apsolvent`s evening/party" maddnes ...

 

More than two months I have listened Her and Admiral talking talking talking talking talking about ... dress she will wore, shoes she will wore, her haircut, .... and after that endless windows shopping ..... and endless shopping .... and after that .... endless everyday trying dress, shoes, accessories, .... all this for couple of hours lasting party ????? And dress she will never wore again ????

 

No, I can not understand this and never will ....

 

So, yesterday I was walking in downtown following my job, and accidentally my eyes stopped in one little shop window with man hats ... this is what catch my attention

 

 

For "window" purpose

 

 

I came in to ask where I can by this stuff, but I got for free full hand ...

 

 

In the evening I compare this stuff (rivets ?) with C-plans , and ....

 

 

THEY ARE TOO BIG !!!!

 

Maybe they will be usable for mooring pipes ?

 

 

Hmm, to big too

 

If I do not find a way to "small" them, I must find smaller

 

 

Edited June 4, 2014 by Nenad M

[NenadM]

Some more windows shopping looking for my stuff (soldering wire, etc etc) and I think I found a solution for to much shinny "coppering"

 

 

Thank you for advices, Gentleman !!!

 

And here are results of testing :

 

 

 

 

Just exactly I wanted ! Keep original color and shine, but kill it a little !

 

 

It seems that only a few (?) testings and experiments has to be done, and that I am ready for "coopering" with couple of thousand hand made pieces ....

Edited June 4, 2014 by Nenad M

[NenadM]

Alone at home again, and , as it is known ... right to shipyard ( where else would ?)

(“people learn to love their chains.”. ... adequate quotation from Daenerys Targaryen)

One more, and maybe, last test before "coopering"

Strips are 3x10mm. In scale, they have to be less than 2 mm wide, but, in my opinion, "rivets" are invisible in that scale, so I decided to enlarge them a little - to about 3mm

Tools I use for "riveting" One with thin top, and another with little thicker top



First, I tried with "long" strips



I don't think so. Vertical edges ( "drawn" with tools from rear side) are not visible enough, and it is hard to line longs strips

And then, with shorts strips, with different technique of "riveting"



Field "1" - riveting from back side with thick top tool

Field "2" - riveting from back side with thin top tool

Field "3" - without riveting, to compare with another fields

Field "4" - riveting from front side with thick top tool

Field "5" - riveting from front side with thin top tool

Whole test piece is covered with mat varnish

Field "1" and "2", I think rivets are almost invisible
Field "4" and "5", I think there is no big difference on that scale

And I think that is definitely - this
But, there is another issue to think about before start

Whole think is pretty sensitive to accidentally scratches. In picture above, I did "scratch" test with my nail, and look what happened



It means, that I must figure something ... as Her statement right now, and I am thinking about something similar like on picture above ... There is a lot of time until I finish coopering to think and re-think this many times



And here is how test piece matches to Her Majesty









She said to me that She will like this dress ...

And added that She is tired of wearing underwear only

Woman ...

Maybe, however 2 mm ????

Edited June 6, 2014 by Nenad M

[mtaylor]

Coppering is looking nice, Nenad.

 

Those grommets (metal bits from the hat), check sewing stores.  They sell them in various sizes.  What size do they need to be and how many?

[Miroslav]

Hi Nenad!

I started to look your build of Cutty Sark and I would like to be successful in my first building as you are, it seems to be excellent model.

But to me it is fascinant coincidency your story from begining: Here I meet countryman, from my town, then, we are colleagues who starting after 30 years..

Even me use dry dock in styro ambalage, and my assistent is my dog!

 

Good luck with these project, and get more photos

Edited June 5, 2014 by Miroslav

[popeye the sailor]

can you find a perforation wheel.......this will give you better uniformed riveting.    the rivets would look better if they protruded,  and not sunk in.   to give it a more subtle rivet look........make the rivet lines and then roll something over them after to flatten them back down again.   this will produce the bumps, without being pointy looking

[Piet]

Hi Nenad, Popeye's idea has been done on other coppering projects but when you can't find a small watch gear you can use a small steel mm ruler.  That way you'll have a straight line and can also press your small pin at each mm for even spacing.  Yep, it'll be a boring and tedious and slow process but you'll be pleased with the results.

 

Cheers,

[popeye the sailor]

I found this tool when I was setting up the cellar,  after we moved here.   it looks old.....don't have a clue how old it is,  but I've hung on to it.   when I rearranged the garage the other day,  I mistakenly threw it out!   I managed to retrieve it before the trash collectors came.....whew!   Piet is correct....you could use anything that has multiple teeth like this.

 

[Miroslav]

That tool is good to take from tailors. They call it "radla"

 

In Belgrade it sells in textil, wool, etc shops

[NenadM]

Coppering is looking nice, Nenad.

 

Those grommets (metal bits from the hat), check sewing stores.  They sell them in various sizes.  What size do they need to be and how many?

 

 

I m just on that way, lurking sewing stores, enjoying in unbeliavable sellers faces I can see when I explain what I need . I need eight of them ( four windows on each size) max 2-3 mm in diametar, and have some ideas to try in weekwnd ... 

Edited June 6, 2014 by Nenad M

[NenadM]

I found this tool when I was setting up the cellar,  after we moved here.   it looks old.....don't have a clue how old it is,  but I've hung on to it.   when I rearranged the garage the other day,  I mistakenly threw it out!   I managed to retrieve it before the trash collectors came.....whew!   Piet is correct....you could use anything that has multiple teeth like this.

 

 

Hi Nenad, Popeye's idea has been done on other coppering projects but when you can't find a small watch gear you can use a small steel mm ruler.  That way you'll have a straight line and can also press your small pin at each mm for even spacing.  Yep, it'll be a boring and tedious and slow process but you'll be pleased with the results.

 

Cheers,

 

 I visited some watch services, and only I have got iis question :"Man, in which century you live?"

 

I think to find some mechanical (if I can find any) childrens toy and to demolish it ... And got some another  idea to try tomorrow ...

Edited June 6, 2014 by Nenad M

[NenadM]

That tool is good to take from tailors. They call it "radla"

 

In Belgrade it sells in textil, wool, etc shops

 

 

Wellcome Miroslav, and thank you for idea. I considered that, but pins are too much widened for my idea. See further photos and try imagine in scale.

 

Admiral said She had one ... in our house, the hardest thing is a saw needle ... so Her sawing tools are in deepest and darkest cave in house ... I dive there, and ... what do you think I found ? My, two months ago,  lost cell phone charger i WAS LOOKING FOR TWO MONTHS !!!! Answer : it was not on place ..................  %%$#&%$&%&&&%/$$/&&$%

 

Ah, revenge will be sweet ....

Edited June 6, 2014 by Nenad M

[NenadM]

Little more rethinking 

 

 

 

 

Rivets/nails are so thin, and in my tests are so hard ... Must figure something for them, to be there, and to be visible, but not so much ...

 

I mentioned earlier when I was making water posts and inside bulwarks that I love rivets

 

No work today exept I wash my car as I never have done in my whole life before.

[Sailor1234567890]

Looking good Nenad. Keep at her. She'll tell you what she needs.

[michael mott]

Nenad you have a great sense of humour, your last entries made me laugh. :"Man, in which century you live?"  I can just imagine the look on their face.

 

The wheeled tool I know as a "ponce wheel", they are also used for doing large transfers where you lay tracing paper over a drawing and then ride the wheel along the lines then place the tracing paper over the new areas and then dust it with coloured chalk. when the paper is removed there are all the coloured dots to outline where the paint goes.

And they do work really well on the copper plates.

 

Michael