Cutty Sark by NenadM

[clipper]

Hi Nenad my friend, your constant attempts to overcome problems to your CS is impressive to say the least. May I respectfully suggest a tip with regard to the white sections in the bulwark panels. Have you thought about painting the sections white and then using a thin card overlay with the white section cut away placed over the top. the card would be easier to mark and cut out and it would also be quicker. Holding each overlay over the panel would allow you to see straight away if it is acceptable before gluing into position. All the best mate, believe it or not you will get there and amass a knowledge of model making that will hold you in good stead for future builds. Stay with this forum and help will be just a keyboard away

Tony

[rfolsom]

Hello Nenad;  I face the same dilemma, and had thought previously about Tony's solution;  however, it's very hard to stain card to match wood, so I gave up on that idea.  I'm still planning to make white panels that stand out, instead of being inlaid, but I'm unsatisfied with that method.  Even my thinnest wood prohibits me from doing the inlaid panels without throwing the rails and other details out of scale, but we'll see what happens...  I've got a ways before I get to that step, and I'm looking forward to your solution.

 

Glad you're finding at least a little peace on the home front;  Classical music plus ship modeling makes for great relaxation. (and of course, a couple of beers...)

[NenadM]

@ Tony, I was thinking about that method as easy and fast, but I decided to try first with injection of small pieces of veneer , or with other material I am just thinking of. Very thin white plastic for instance ... ( 0,5 mm)

 

@ Bob, there was not beer. Only Ness coffie. Beer is fine when outside is hot. Now, it is autumn, and it is cold outside ( about 10⁰c with rain and wind) and beer dont fit me. 

 

My idea is to simulate as much it is possible real CS, where panels are inland, as Bob said above

 

  

 

30-35 years ago working on my first wooden model - Santa Maria - I experimented with cards and different type of glue combined with ...  and ... Hmmmm .... or beter : .... mhhhhh

 

Also on first try of CS in same period, I could not do anything with long strips in proper way, so I experimented making planks with cards as a second layer, and results of that method surely do not fit my today criteria. That was ... no words today for that solution.

 

Planking was the point I stopped work on first CS. It was impossible to sand it and to fit it, and to glue anything over. Also coopering was impossible. 30 years ago I have no idea about coopering, and about CS standing in Greenwich, no photos, no additional plans and instructions, only my poor Tehnodidakta 

 

Main reason not to use cards is that cards can be very ungrateful when get in touch with liquid (sadolin, stain coating, paint etc) and can absorb liquid, can swell or can separate on layers on whole surface or in the edges, and that can be very ugly.

 

I intend to try tonight "plastic" method, and we ll see what will happened. If you look at photos of white panels very very carefully, it no seems as wood. To me, it rather seems as plastic, or some "plastic reflection" white paint. To much and to clear white and bright shades for wood. Even in pictures from different periods. But, in XIX century plastic did not exist, so, rather is some kind of white paint.

 

Maybe the truth is in the middle - veneer painted white before installation ? I shall try all of that, put some photos here, and ask you what are you thinking about this. (It will be fun. On my scale, panels will be max 1 mm wide and 8-9 mm long)

 

Was anybody there and see or touch Her holly panels ?

Edited November 11, 2013 by Nenad M

[SpencerC]

Could u do an overhead shot of the panels you cut out? Hard to see from the side. Thanks

[NenadM]

I did not try "plastic" today. In shipyard I concluded that trenches must be little deeper, and did it, and made another layer of sadolin

 

There are some pictures down for you, Spencer, and I hope this is what you ask for. Bulwarks are fresh "painted", and moisture reflects light and it is no clear to see ( HTC WILDFIRE has only 5 MP camera and make bad pictures without daylight). If you need that, I can draw you a rough sketch 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tomorrow maybe I shall make them little deeper ( I shall see after trying to install some pieces of panels) and maybe another layer of sadoline

 

And, as usual, next question arise

 

RIGHT COLOR

 

If you are able to find exactly the same type of wood of which original bulwarks, top rail and nail holder are made, there is no problem. Just put some varnish for wood over and that is it.

 

But, if you do not have this, you must simulate right color with some kind of stain coating. Solid color is out of question, so much plastic look

 

And here is problem: Different manufacturers make different shades of same name/declaration of sadolin. Even you try to mix two or more stain coating, this is not and never will be equal as original nature wood. So, in one moment you must get a decision without possibility to rewind

 

Here is example: Two manufactures and their shades for mahogany. And you dont know when you are bying what is exactly inside, and how it will apply and interact to the sort of wood you use. Also, there are different sorts of it, with/without warish inside, with/without wax inside, made on the base of wather or not ....... Trying ... how many liters you have to bye to try, and you need not more than 100-200 mg

 

 

 

 

Having in mind that, if I choose to put color on bulwarks later, that will probably be next episode of movie "Mission impossible" ,so, dont expecting this, I suddenly find myself on this stage, and must decide. This color is my decision, and think it will be OK

Edited November 5, 2013 by Nenad M

[NenadM]

For Spencer

 

Trench 1 mm  wide is in the middle of strip 5 mm wide 

 

Edited November 6, 2013 by Nenad M

[NenadM]

After several attempts and experiments, however, I chose a "plastic" version, and here is result ( little pieces of crap which smuggle into the photo will be removed) 

 

 

 

I am pretty satisfied with result, and this is surely better than previous drunked version

 

And, Bob, let us for a while return to your question in post #237. Different panel length, it is sure. But, in my scale, difference is less than 1 mm, and I am not sure about if that differences will be  visible at all,  especially if takes into account that most of the white panels will be visually "masked" with dead-eyes, nails, ropes etc.

 

However, during making trenches, especially during making panels and during installing them, I realized that I have not enough skill to make every single trench and panel the apsolutely same length, so one is 8,5 mm other is 8,2 mm etc. As you said, I can live with this.

 

I think that the most important thing with panels is to hit and to affect the visual similarity with original panels on CS as much is possible.

 

And I expect with great interest your attempt of white panels.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Nenad M

[von stetina]

Hi Nenad,

 

Looking good! I'm thrilled to see the interest in clippers right now. I'd have loved to have seen the Cutty Sark's original trail board carving of all the witches! Shame it was changes. She sure is a beautiful ship. I'm glad I saw her before in the old open dry dock and not the way she is displayed now.

I'll enjoy watching your build.

 

Bruce

[NenadM]

@Bruce, I agree with you.

 

Now in Greenwich you can not see all beautiful lines of Her majesty.

 

What were they thinking of with "glass sea" ?

Edited November 7, 2013 by Nenad M

[clipper]

Hi Nenad, a great improvement on the panels mate. I agree with you about the glass "sea" it looks to me like she is sitting on a pile of bubble wrap, well, at least that is what we call it

Tony

[NenadM]

First time when I had seen pictures of new dry dock, first asociation was : some bird (still beauty) sitting in the nest with eggs

 

 

Later I realized that it have to be sea  .... or ocean ... or something

Edited November 8, 2013 by Nenad M

[mathewp]

I've looked at you whole build. I like the way you have persevered with your build. I think you will end up with a very nice model.

[NenadM]

That is exactly idea, Math. I started pretty quite confusing and without a clear picture what to do, and when I discovered MSW, I realized:

1. I can do it much better than I started

2. that I have to do a lot better than I started.

 

Learning, practiceing, collecting ideas, thinking in advance prior, testing and experimenting, having a fun above all, and I try to do my best.

 

Mistakes about which I dont see on time run me in problems, and I try to correct them and not start from begine.

 

In my country there is a saying: "persistent ox" . My father use to say: "College finish persistent oxen, and not geniuses".

He was right - same is in the life 

[NenadM]

One step forward

 

First bulwark with panels is done. It looks OK and in scale

 

 

Edit november 11 2013:    I forgot to mention that I have to remove (sand) almost all covering sadoline and to put it again in very thin layer

Edited November 11, 2013 by Nenad M

[rfolsom]

Nenad:  I really like the way your white panels and bulwarks are coming along;  I also like your choice of color for the stained areas.

 

Right now, I'm mentally struggling with that area, but I won't be physically experimenting with it until the main rail is finished and installed.

For me, (at the moment), I see no other alternative but to install raised white panels in order to keep the scale of my rails in check.  (Not sure if I can live with that, yet...) and as for the color, I wish I had chosen one less dark than I had chosen.  (I already had 80% finished my poop deckhouse, hatches, and heads last year using a dark mahogony stain, and I will not be remaking them, so I will have to live with it...) :mellow:

 

Looking forward to your progress in this area...

 

Bob

[NenadM]

Nailed in bed with viral flu, slumber whole day, tea, and soup, tea again, and another tea, and soup, and Fervex  ... booring ... I can not lay any more, and can not get on the feet with clear head .... in a circle ... can not read ... so much television for one day

 

Go to the shipyard for a while, can not work precisely I want

 

Bob, I wish you luck in fight with yourself 

 

Morning is clever than evening

[keelhauled]

Nenad,

 

Wow your Cutty is really coming along!!  She looks great.  Nice job on the bulwarks.  They are a pain.  Their height between the deck and rail changes (Campbell's plans) and the inlays are challenging.  The counter is another challenge.  You really did a wonderful job.  The second attempt really came out well!

 

I always enjoy seeing your progress.

 

Take care,

Marc

[rfolsom]

Nenad;

 

Sorry to hear about your sickness, wishing you best in recovering...  Be careful working on the ship if you have a fever, like you said it makes thinking and working very difficult.

 

On a positive note, after looking at your method, and much thought, I decided to look in my Artesenia Latina Swift box for some ideas.  (The Swift was my first wooden ship build, started about 5 or 6 years ago.  The hull is done with just some deckhouse details to do before stepping the masts and starting the rigging).  To my surprise, I found 12 strips of walnut veneer (left over from the second planking layer) 5mm wide, and only about 0.3 mm thick.  This is thin enough to cut ovals into and glue onto the existing bulwarks without destroying the scale of my rails.  So, in the next few days I will be experimenting with this method and posting the results on my log. (Giving credit to you, of course!) 

 

Thanks for all your helpful ideas, and your persistent encouragement...

 

Bob

[clipper]

Hi Nenad, sorry to hear that you're ill mate, take time out to get yourself well again. This is a time to think if you can, not to do

Tony

[NenadM]

It seems that the flu is not serious one. I'm sitting in the office and "working" (happiness is that today is a public holiday so I do not have anywhere to budge), after that go to a family dinner, and at afternoon .... we'll see

 

The sequence of steps bothers me ... for now, I am intend to

 

first finish panel bulwarks and mount them

second - finish and mount whole top rail

 

then to come back to hull to correct and establish all ( aaaaaaaaaaaaal) the curvatures and lines, and to do second planking and coopering after that ( with 2 or 5 fender garnish ) ... not to forget important thing : STERN

 

It will laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaast

Edited November 11, 2013 by Nenad M

[NenadM]

What do you think, my friends: In the same time on tv are : Avatar (I watched it 3 times) and Ice Age IV ( Admiral watched 15 times). What we will watching?

Edited November 21, 2013 by Nenad M

[NenadM]

It is not fair. She has already watched Ice Age 1,2,3,4,..... on Samsung Smart Led 42", and I have watched Avatar only on laptop ...

 

No progress today .... torture at the dentist ...lazy afternoon ....  and a movie for myself (The Avengers) ....Admiral was to her mother ...

Edited November 21, 2013 by Nenad M

[NenadM]

@ Mark: If you love/loved Marvel comics, and if you are a bit of kid deep inside yourself (as every grown man is, even a little), and if you like fairy tales, action, fabulous video effects, it is worth and fun 

[rfolsom]

Nenad;  I like all the movies you listed above,  but I'd be willing to airmail you a bag of popcorn for some more pictures and posts...

 

~Bob

[NenadM]

Bob, this flu is tough son of a bitch. My functioning these days is based on Fervex/Coldrex, lemon, tea. etc etc. In the morning, my legs wake up and stand me up, but head stays in bed a long time after. Somehow then going to the office and get through the day, but the afternoon ... lunch, bump in bed, after that, same picture as in the morning ... every night visit Her majesty, say some Hmmmm thing, and then say F...it, and return to room and gape to TV waiting time to go to sleep

 

In Belgrade start really autumn, there is no more work in home-yard, winter is long and I hope to progress faster. In mean time reading some books about rigging and different rigging manuals for Her Majesty .... tough job of rigging is still waiting ... it will be very hard

 

PS Thx for popcorns

Edited November 14, 2013 by Nenad M

[mtaylor]

Hope you have a speedy recovery, Nenad.  Not a good thing to try to build when you're not at 100% as it becomes too easy to make big mistakes. 

[Piet]

Hi Nenad and I hope you'll feel better soon and lick this flu thing.  We are anxiously looking forward to more pics of your work.

 

Cheers,

[popeye the sailor]

not good.............rest up and take care.   I remember the last time I had something like that.........I made it as far as my recliner......and that was in the next room!   I was down a whole week with it!    ...........but that was some time ago    feel better,  my friend!

[NenadM]

Flu weaks, and bulwarks with white panels are done and mounted. Much better than last time. Next is top rail

 

[mtaylor]

The new bulwarks look fantastic.  I'm glad you're getting better.