Glory of the Seas 1869 by rwiederrich - FINISHED - 1/96 - medium clipper

[rwiederrich]

11 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, Glory's main yardarm looks larger in this image due to the fact that it's the sole remaining spar. When she was fully rigged, these massive spars actually look smaller in proportion to each other. A hallmark of McKay's wonderful Clippers were his aggressive yardarm specifications. 

This is why this image is so helpful.  You have just the main yard to use for measurements.  Remember when I told you some time ago that clipper builders used other components of their ships to be measuring stick for yet other portions of their ships?  Well in this case the main mast is 91ft long...so is the main yard...91ft long.  That is why I said that by a simple rudimentary observation, you can see that the main yard is twice as long as the main mast is from deck to tops.  Its a magical symmetry built into the design of the vessel.

 

Rob 

[rwiederrich]

11 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, I sort of followed your description but these process images are much more illustrative. I admire your creative inventiveness. The finished product is amazing in its authentic fealty to the real thing.

Short of processing the sheet block like EdT did by making separate sides and bolting them together(Pretty tough job at 1/96.  I searched for a material I could manipulate to simulate the same structure.  These metal tabs used for medical folders...had embossed portions that when bent over on themselves provided the exact replication of the body of the sheet block I needed to fabricate.  Simply cutting the shape of the block into the stock material was done with a small cut off disk in my dental handpiece.   Sure I had to forego the rollers in the actual block, but again, in this scale, it is a detail easily left out without degradation of the intended structure.  And the effect is still quite convincing.

 

Thanks for noticing.

 

Rob 

[MrBlueJacket]

11 hours ago, TBlack said:

"... a testament to  a strong mental prowess….. a fruitful imagination and ingenuity. "

Sometimes I call it "inspired laziness"

 

 

[rwiederrich]

11 hours ago, TBlack said:

Rob,

So, as I understand it, you're trying to figure out how to make the metal fittings that fairlead the chains, and to quote you:

" Creating something from total scratch or modifying something from some  totally different other thing is a testament to  a strong mental prowess….. a fruitful imagination and ingenuity. "

I guess you've got it all! Thanks for the journey.

Tom 
 

 

To be honest...As you put it, is sounds more self promoting, then I had intended.  I actually was quoting a phrase my father always liked to use.

He always said....*If someone else can do it....so can you*.  He was instilling in us that we had....*LIfe, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.   Life..thank the Lord mom and dad had me here,   LIberty...I have protection from you and the Govt,   and the Pursuit of Happiness....If you suck at being happy because you have no imagination or ingenuity or skill, then that is entirely your own fault*.

 

Tom...I surely do not have it all.

 

Rob(I do have the most important things...God and my family)

[rwiederrich]

16 minutes ago, MrBlueJacket said:

 

Nic........I can only assume that you've endured many of my postings and quite sure you have heard me say....*I am generally a lazy modeler*.

If I can find or concoct  a simpler, easier way of getting out of having to actually make a part from thin air....I'll take plan B.  Shoot, I'll take plan Z if it achieves my goal and it requires the least amount of energy expenditure.  Both mental and physical.

 

Rob (You hit the nail on the head).

Edited February 3, 2022 by rwiederrich

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

@Rob, Folks, 

could you recommend any rigging book that specializes on american clippers, please? although I expect it a bit pricey ;(. Im not sure if Crothers didnt write one, but if so not sure if not put of print or difficult to find. I know there is few standard recommenation but not so much on late 1850 + clipper rigging and im not interested in british styel atm. just american. I checked books you showed Rob, but a bit tough to get im affraid. I would be thankful. V. 

[rwiederrich]

12 minutes ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

@Rob, Folks, 

could you recommend any rigging book that specializes on american clippers, please? although I expect it a bit pricey ;(. Im not sure if Crothers didnt write one, but if so not sure if not put of print or difficult to find. I know there is few standard recommenation but not so much on late 1850 + clipper rigging and im not interested in british styel atm. just american. I checked books you showed Rob, but a bit tough to get im affraid. I would be thankful. V. 

"Masting and Rigging the Clipper Ship and Ocean Carrier" A used one of Ebay for $28~ $60

 

Rob

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

20 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

"Masting and Rigging the Clipper Ship and Ocean Carrier" A used one of Ebay for $28~ $60

 

Rob

Many thanx Rob. I will scout for it  

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

25 bucks - just ordered from UK   yay. 

 

[rwiederrich]

55 minutes ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

25 bucks - just ordered from UK   yay. 

 

You're on your way to rigging mastery.  Just remember that book includes rigging for several types of ships....avoid the iron carriers and stick with the wooden descriptions(Those would generally be the clippers).  And some descriptions are referenced for both types...because the function was identical. Those descriptions can also be used.

 

Have fun.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

Worked on the mizzenmast lower topsail. 
 

Rob

[Bob Cleek]

On 2/3/2022 at 8:35 AM, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

Im not sure if Crothers didnt write one, but if so not sure if not put of print or difficult to find. I know there is few standard recommenation but not so much on late 1850 + clipper rigging and im not interested in british styel atm. just american.

Crothers' The American Built Clipper Ship - 1850-1856 is the bible on American clipper ships. A bit hard to find these days and it can be pricey, but I see it is out in paperback as well as the hardbacked version. Amazon has a used one at a good price right now: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=9780071358231&i=stripbooks&linkCode=qs

 

I'd ditto Rob's recommendation of Underhill's Masting and Rigging the Clipper Ship and Ocean Carrier but with the warning that Underhill was a British writer and his references are often to British rigging methods. I can't recall for sure, but I don't think he distinguished between the two. 

 

Underhill's drafting is a joy to behold. There are very few around these days who can equal it. 

Edited February 6, 2022 by Bob Cleek

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

6 hours ago, Bob Cleek said:

Crothers' The American Built Clipper Ship - 1850-1856 is the bible on American clipper ships. A bit hard to find these days and it can be pricey, but I see it is out in paperback as well as the hardbacked version. Amazon has a used one at a good price right now: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=9780071358231&i=stripbooks&linkCode=qs

 

I'd ditto Rob's recommendation of Underhill's Masting and Rigging the Clipper Ship and Ocean Carrier but with the warning that Underhill was a British writer and his references are often to British rigging methods. I can't recall for sure, but I don't think he distinguished between the two. 

 

Underhill's drafting is a joy to behold. There are very few around these days who can equal it. 

Bob, thanks for input. I have Crothers book. I wouldnt say its that hard to find in europe. Is widely availble from what I see. Although  I was dissapointed with so called hard copy. I dont recommend it over paperback. its more expensive and book is not sawn just simply paperback with hard cover glued over it. i was angry for that. 

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

6 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Worked on the mizzenmast lower topsail. 
 

Rob

Now Robs alchemy comes to play doesnt iť?  what is it? it looks like dough to me:)) looking good though. will you paint it etc? 

[rwiederrich]

9 hours ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

Now Robs alchemy comes to play doesnt iť?  what is it? it looks like dough to me:)) looking good though. will you paint it etc? 

I still have much detailing to add to the sail.  Beckets(straps) still need to be installed.  I’ll probably add the chain sheets for the top topsail. 
 

Rob

[BANYAN]

Very nice work Rob, looks very effective.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[rwiederrich]

18 hours ago, BANYAN said:

Very nice work Rob, looks very effective.

 

cheers

 

Pat

Thanks Pat... It can be a struggle to create convincing enough tightly furled sails.  You have to capture the uneven rolled/tufted effect without the sail appearing overly exaggerated or comical.  I added some slight detailing to the surface of the sail to break up any uniformity and lend greater detail as to what might be expected in tightly rolled canvas that is furled over jackstays and banding.  Still needing to add becket banding/straps and run the chain sheets for the topsail.  I might even add some whiter highlights to emphasize reflections.   Its knowing when to stop and to know when less is more.

 

Thanks for the fine comments.

 

Rob

Edited February 7, 2022 by rwiederrich

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  'Love your furled sails ... something I want to do on a future project.  Some of the blocks seen in your photos look like the Cutty/Thermie blocks in the Revell 1:96 classic kits.  This is a good use of ready resources, and one I'm likely to make use of in time.

[rwiederrich]

13 minutes ago, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

  'Love your furled sails ... something I want to do on a future project.  Some of the blocks seen in your photos look like the Cutty/Thermie blocks in the Revell 1:96 classic kits.  This is a good use of ready resources, and one I'm likely to make use of in time.

I have to make some mods/corrections to solidify accuracy in the sails....but We're getting there.

 

Good eye....yes indeedy...I'm making us of the preformed blocks that are actually pretty much in scale for this particular build.  They will easily blend in to the overall build.  I make sure I have several color changes between blocks...since they were wood and they weathered differently due to their location and use on the vessel.  Some darker(Oiled, less UV's) and some bleached(Peeling varnish, checked).  It's all about creating a *Natural Randomness*.......  Nothing is perfect...nothing.

 

Thanks for the fine comments.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

Did some corrections and additions.  Still need to finish up the highlights and weathering.  
 

Rob

Edited February 8, 2022 by rwiederrich

[KeithAug]

The masts are really attractive and very cleanly made. Excellent work.

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Rob, is that a Glory plan in the background and, if so, where could I get that? Since starting the Cutty I'm taken by the beauty of clippers and the Glory in particular, and fancy this being the one where I perhaps try to model it entirely for 3D printing.

 

I love those masts, such an interesting profile.

[ClipperFan]

7 hours ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

Rob, is that a Glory plan in the background and, if so, where could I get that? Since starting the Cutty I'm taken by the beauty of clippers and the Glory in particular, and fancy this being the one where I perhaps try to model it entirely for 3D printing.

 

I love those masts, such an interesting profile.

Kevin, Rob has greatly enlarged a plan from one of author Michael Mjelde's book appendices. While the deck layout is mainly accurate, the deck's outline no longer is. That's because we discovered that Glory's bow profile is much slimmer at the entrance than previously thought. Vladimir might be able to produce one since he created the revised bulkheads with his computer. I mainly focused on her broadside profile. I can add too that from a never seen before Stern above shot of Glory docked in Alaska, graciously supplied to us by Michael Mjelde, we now know for a fact that her Rear Carriage House narrows to match the outer contours of her hull, with 5' passages on both sides which remain consistent Bow to Stern.

Edited February 10, 2022 by ClipperFan
additional information

[rwiederrich]

7 hours ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

Rob, is that a Glory plan in the background and, if so, where could I get that? Since starting the Cutty I'm taken by the beauty of clippers and the Glory in particular, and fancy this being the one where I perhaps try to model it entirely for 3D printing.

 

I love those masts, such an interesting profile.

Thanks Kevin……they sure are eye catching.  
This plan is in Michael Mjelde’s second book about Glory of the Seas.  
 

Rob

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Thanks both. I’ve read about half of this log so far, so have picked up on the interesting discussion about the true profiles. If I was to attempt this as a largely 3D project it would be both long and a labour of love so it would be as well to try to make it as true to the real thing as possible. Is Michael Mjelde‘s drawing a ‘good enough’ representation of the basic hull or a bit of a blind alley? Noting the discussion earlier that the entrance was much more angled? Are there better plans out there? I suppose not, otherwise half this log wouldn’t exist. I doubt I’d start this any time soon by the way.

[rwiederrich]

4 hours ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

Thanks both. I’ve read about half of this log so far, so have picked up on the interesting discussion about the true profiles. If I was to attempt this as a largely 3D project it would be both long and a labour of love so it would be as well to try to make it as true to the real thing as possible. Is Michael Mjelde‘s drawing a ‘good enough’ representation of the basic hull or a bit of a blind alley? Noting the discussion earlier that the entrance was much more angled? Are there better plans out there? I suppose not, otherwise half this log wouldn’t exist. I doubt I’d start this any time soon by the way.

Kevin....if you continue along in the log you will see the corrected drawings we commutatively developed...with Michael Mjelde's approval.  His drawing are correct for the most part...but are grossly inaccurate in her cutwater and stern, not to mention on a few of her deck trimmings and furniture.  Remember he did these drawings many decades ago with no peer review...no second set of eyes.  We have the benefit of several enthusiastic researchers who are tenacious about details.  Plus we have the great wealth of Mikes unpublished photographic library.

 

Please continue along and you will devise as we did the most accurate replication of Glory to this day.  Plus you have the extra added benefit of having Glory of the Seas built , replicating both her early and later years...representing her many added modifications.

A fully printed version would be an amazing thing to behold as well as 3D printing can smoothly and seamlessly recreate finer details if done well.

 

Good luck in your adventure.....and do your research well.  It can be as rewarding as the build itself.

I believe Vladmir has the original CAD drawings he used to have bulkheads laser cut from.  He would be the true source to look to for this kind of information.

 

I would follow your build log in a hurry.

 

Rob

Edited February 10, 2022 by rwiederrich

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Thanks Rob, it looks like right here is the knowledge base and the build logs are invaluable as well as inspirational. And although I’m sure this was understood anyway, I meant no criticism of Michaels drawings, not least because I haven’t even seen them yet (but have now sourced the book). 3D is a funny old fish. It’s quite enjoyable to see something come to life on the screen but most of the challenge is in finding ways to make that printable and at the quality / detail you want. Which like everything in life becomes a little easier with practice and experience. Anyway, I have some reading to do, and a ship or two to progress before I get carried away on this.

[rwiederrich]

Spent some time finishing up the upper topsail.  When I mount the yards I will run the sheets and downhauls.  
Still need to add the bunt blocks. 
 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

Once all the yards are finished for this mast…..I will then rig the shrouds.  Mixin it up from my GR method…….keeping the Monotony at bay.  
 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

10 hours ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

Thanks Rob, it looks like right here is the knowledge base and the build logs are invaluable as well as inspirational. And although I’m sure this was understood anyway, I meant no criticism of Michaels drawings, not least because I haven’t even seen them yet (but have now sourced the book). 3D is a funny old fish. It’s quite enjoyable to see something come to life on the screen but most of the challenge is in finding ways to make that printable and at the quality / detail you want. Which like everything in life becomes a little easier with practice and experience. Anyway, I have some reading to do, and a ship or two to progress before I get carried away on this.

Kevin, an initial concern I had when addressing the enormous inaccuracies of the Mjelde plans was how to not offend Michael himself, as these were illustrations published in his books. Probably my biggest thrill was how gracious, understanding and generous he actually was in sharing numerous, rare, many never seen before images of Glory herself. Our efforts in attaining a far more accurate version of McKay's final Clipper is a tribute to the selflessness of Glory's greatest living promoter, who like all of us has as his ultimate goal to replicate "GLORY of the SEAS" precisely.