ISO: Enamel tips for beginners

[CTYankee]

Hi All-

 

Can anyone point me to some good tutorials (video or otherwise) on brush application of enamel paints, preferably on wood? I am a total painting newbie. I just started priming the hull on my first model and am scratching my head. FYI- I am using True North paints that came with my Blue Jacket kit. I know lots of folks like Acrylics but I am trying to stick with the paints from the kit because as a beginner I am hoping to work through the kit with as few 'ad ons' as possible so that other total newbies like my self can try to emulate without buying a whole bunch of extra stuff. 

 

To that end, I am not using the brushes in the kit at this point because they seem too small for the large surface of the hull. I am using the 10mm brush from this kit that I had knocking around like these: https://www.amazon.com/Artists-Loft-Fundamentals-Natural-Brushes/dp/B01CV00MQS. 

 

I have been practicing on various scraps etc and am having trouble finding a recipe. My questions are generally around:

 

1) Thinning- I have gotten droppers so I can be precise with dosages but cant find a good balance between something that goes on without at least some amount of brush strokes and something that is basically a wash. I cant seem to get that nice self leveling I have heard so much about.

 

2) Sanding- the instructions in my kit manual suggest I sand, prime, sand prime, etc.  When I do those between coat sandings how much am I looking to take off? If I try to get it smooth and get rid of the ripples left behind then I end up sanding through in some areas. Should I use a block and just hit the high points, use a block to get something that resembles smooth and worry about the sant through on subsequent coats, or go our every surface with a compliant finger (hitting the highs and the lows) to take off the haze and then re-coat and worry about a perfectly smooth surface after I've built up a number of coats? What grit would you use. The smoothest the kit comes with is 220, which takes off way too much. I'm experimenting with 600, 1000 and 0000 steel wool too.

 

3)Coverage- the kit I bought came with one 5.4oz (16ml) bottle of primer. Is this really going to be enough to get the hull primed 'to resemble fiberglass' as the instructions state, and then prime every other bit in the kit? It seems like even thinned out I am going through it fast- granted I have done a bunch of practicing, etc...

 

I apologize if I missed a thread on this. I searched far an wide before posting but couldn't find anything. But, my wife will attest, I'm a bad looker. I think she is referring to my ability to find things...

[pwog]

Hi James,

 

Great question! 
 

As you know, I’m working on the same kit and it’s my first build.
 

I started priming my Red Baron using the supplied brushes. I then bought some decent synthetic artist brushes. The brush change helped.
 

I had the same concern with the amount of primer I was using, between applications and sanding per instructions. I finished my priming and still have enough primer left to paint the well deck floor, as required.

 

 I started to paint the parts that are to be painted white. My first coat looks horrible! At this time, I am waiting for that coat to dry. This is going to be a long process. As I’m doing that I’m researching brush painting with enamel. That’s how I found your post.
 

if I find any ideas/suggestions that seem to work, I’ll let you know. Please do the same for me. Good luck.

 

Paul

[Bob Cleek]

Paint should be thinned to about the consistency of milk, or even thinner in some instances. If you are experiencing brush strokes and runs, you are applying the paint too thickly, either because your brush is overloaded, your paint is too thick, or both. Repeated thin coats should "lay down" without any brush strokes or runs whatsoever. Keep applying until the coat is even and covers fully. This can sometimes take several coats. The goal is to cover the surface adequately with the least amount of paint build up. For sanding between coats, "less is more." Many sand so aggressively that they remove the coat they just put on! A properly prepared surface, with paint properly applied, should require very little sanding. 120 grit is way too coarse. You should be using 400 to 600 grit, and sparingly at that. If you've painted properly, you shouldn't have much more than a speck of dust here or there on the surface that you need to remove.

 

Paint needs to be "conditioned" before use. They aren't generally intended to be applied "right out of the can." Conditioning generally involves interdependent processes:

 

1.  Thinning: this involves adding the thinning solvent to the paint from the can to get the thickness of the paint adjusted.

 

2.  Retarding: this involves adding a "retarder," generally more of the oil "binder" to the paint. This will slow the drying of the paint, which permits brush strokes to "lay down" or "level" naturally. 

 

3.  Accelerating or drying additives: this involves adding "Japan drier," or other additives which accelerate the drying time of the paint. This is only necessary when mixing your own paint using tubed artists' oil paints, which generally do not contain driers to begin with.

 

Decent brushes are a worthwhile investment. When using oil-based paints, you should use natural bristle brushes. Synthetic bristle brushes are for water-based paints.  Use the largest brush you can for a job. This allows you to easily maintain a wet edge as you paint. You don't want to be running a brush back over paint which has started to dry.

 

Don't rush. Multiple coats are better than fewer thick coats.

 

Painting is an acquired skill. The more you do it, the better results you will achieve, although there can always be surprises, so be sure to test your conditioned paint first on a scrap piece.

 

YouTube has many video tutorials on painting models and miniatures.  This guy's series, although addressing plastic aircraft models, is fairly good:

 

 

[CTYankee]

@Bob Cleek thank you for such a detailed and thoughtful answer!

[CTYankee]

@pwog you are using that included primer on all wood surfaces before the final color coats right? In other words you have primer grey beneath the white, correct? I can't tell for sure based on your comment:

 

". I finished my priming and still have enough primer left to paint the well deck floor, as required."

 

 

[pwog]

Hi James,

 

Yes, the entire boat is primed, even under where I started the white. 

[CTYankee]

@Bob Cleek I finally watched that video. It was great!

 

for Enamel paint- anything you’d do very differently?other than use natural bristle brushes and thin with the correct thinner?

 

I also noticed no primer here- is that unique to plastic models? I’m having a hard time finding enamel model primer and I can’t figure out why!

 

finally- great tip on using artist paints. I tried some on some scrap for an experiment and I couldn’t figure out why it never dried!

 

have a great weekend!

[Bob Cleek]

7 hours ago, CTYankee said:

for Enamel paint- anything you’d do very differently?other than use natural bristle brushes and thin with the correct thinner?

 

No difference, really. Just remember you can paint oil-based paint on top of acrylics, but not acrylics on top of oils.

 

7 hours ago, CTYankee said:

I also noticed no primer here- is that unique to plastic models? I’m having a hard time finding enamel model primer and I can’t figure out why!

 

Paint manufacturers long ago discovered that if they created the impression that one had to use primer, they could sell twice as much paint to people who didn't know whether they needed to prime a piece before painting or not. The fewer coats of anything that you put on a model, the less detail is lost and the better the scale impression will be. (Ideally, you want the thickness of your paint coats to be "to scale" too!) I don't use primer unless I need it to make my finish coat cover with less coats or to make incompatible coatings adhere. If I don't need a primer, I don't use one.

 

The fellow in the video wasn't using primer on his plastic plane model because he was using oil-based enamel which sticks to plastic well. He probably would have used a primer on it if he were using water-based acrylic paint because the water would tend to bead up on the slick plastic surface. Oil doesn't bead up on slick impermeable surfaces like water does.

 

Primers have a variety of purposes. One essential purpose of a primer is to serve as an intermediate coating between two surfaces and/or coatings that aren't compatible. (Hence the market term: "Universal Primer," of which dewaxed shellac is one of the best.) When two non-compatible coatings must be applied one on top of the other (which one ought to avoid in the first place,) a "universal" primer compatible with both oil and water-based paints creates a common surface that "sticks" the two together. Primers are also useful for creating a uniform base color, particularly when successive colors aren't likely to cover as well as you'd like. A highly-pigmented primer coat in a neutral color is much easier to cover with a finish color coat than an unevenly colored surface. Finally, "sanding primers" contain chalk which makes them easy to sand. If you have a rough surface, a sanding primer or "basecoat" is easier to sand to perfect smoothness than finish coats.  Bare wood requires a "sealer," which some incorrectly call a "primer," although a first thinned coat of paint or varnish can often serve double duty as a sealer. The purpose of a sealer is to seal an absorbent surface, such as bare wood, that would otherwise soak up the finish coat paint unevenly, requiring additional finish coats and likely more sanding. I seal all my wood with thin shellac. ("Out of the can," which is two pound cut shellac, I'll add 25 to 50 percent alcohol to thin it well.) I keep the thinned shellac in a jar and often simply dip small pieces into the shellac and then shake off the excess. It soaks into the wood and dries very quickly. (And faster if you blow on it.) The alcohol evaporates quickly. This provides a "hardened" wood surface for final fine sanding and an impermeable surface for applying paint so the paint won't soak into the wood unevenly and leave "rough spots."  When you see close-up photos of models on the build logs that look like the parts were cut with scale-sized dull chainsaws and painted with a an old rag on a stick, they haven't been sealed and sanded before painting. (The unsightly finish is less noticeable when viewed with the naked eye, of course.)

 

7 hours ago, CTYankee said:

finally- great tip on using artist paints. I tried some on some scrap for an experiment and I couldn’t figure out why it never dried!

 

Yes, artists' oils will take seemingly forever to dry because they contain no driers. Oil paint is made up of a pigment, the color material, and a binder, an oil that cures and hardens so the pigment adheres to the surface that's painted. The oil, often "raw" linseed oil (which can be purchased in food-grade as "flaxseed oil" in health food stores for much less than in art stores,) polymerizes over time and becomes hardened. Artists often blend color for various effects right on their canvases and a slow drying paint is desired by them. "Boiled" linseed oil (which isn't boiled at all) contains added driers, usually "Japan drier," which accelerates the polymerization of the oil binder. Adding boiled linseed oil to artists' oils will cause them to dry more quickly, or one can buy "Japan drier" and add small quantities of that to artists' oils (or any other oil paint) and that will cause it to dry more quickly. How quickly is a matter of "feel" and experiment and tests on scrap material should always be conducted before applying mixed paint to the model itself. 

 

Oil paint will dry with a glossy finish if there's enough oil in it. Thinning tends to dull the finish, but sometimes not enough to achieve the flat finish required on scale models. To achieve a flat finish, a small quantity of "flattening agent" may be added. This can be purchased wherever artists' oils are sold. Grumbacher makes the industry standard "flattener."

 

Japan drier is a mixture of 3% cobalt in naptha. Linseed oil is simply linseed oil, a natural vegetable oil. Gum turpentine is simply refined tree sap. While I am no fan of climate change, one unfortunate consequence of many environmental protective regulations is that they too often attack the "low hanging fruit" and not the larger causes of the problem. Despite the relatively limited environmental impact of releasing oil paint related organic solvents into the atmosphere, oil based paints and solvents which contain high amounts of "volatile organic compounds" or "VOCs," are no longer allowed to be sold in some jurisdictions, notably in the U.S. in California. (Hence the "Not available in California" notations in many mail order catalogs these days.) There are a few exceptions to these regulations, generally involving packaging amounts. Linseed oil, Japan drier, and gum turpentine can still be obtained in small amounts at ridiculously high prices when sold as art supplies, but you'll have a hard time in many areas finding quart cans, let along gallon cans, of stuff like turpentine, linseed oil, mineral spirits paint thinner, naptha, tolulene, and the like. In times past, these substances were staples for anybody who knew what they were doing and did any amount of painting. Now, if you find yourself in a area where they've become unobtainable, you have to resort to "smuggling" your supplies from outside the areas where they are banned or pay the huge premiums charged for the ounce-sized containers in the art stores.

 

For those who wish to use acrylic paint, tubed acrylic artist's paints are readily available, of course. They are, however, acrylic paint and, like just about everything that "mother" tells us is "safe and sane," they are no fun at all. Those of us who were building models before about 1980 mourn the loss of "real" model paint like the legendary Floquil, which was so "hot" (full of aromatic hydrocarbons) you could get a buzz on using them. They worked perfectly every time right out of the bottle. Sadly, with their demise, modelers wishing the same results today have to teach themselves how to mix and condition their own paint.

 

[Dr PR]

Bob,

 

Thanks for the info. I want to emphasize one point you made.

 

I have been painting (art) with oils since I was a kid. Artists oils take a very long time to dry properly - I suspect some of Rembrandt's paintings aren't fully dry yet! Actually, the stuff I used took about three weeks to harden so it wouldn't smudge. As you said, this is a virtue for artists because the colors can be mixed and spread easily on the canvas, and can be retouched for a week or so. Faster drying paints are far less forgiving!

 

For modelers the long drying time is a nuisance. You can mix a fast evaporating solvent to make the paint dry faster. But like you said, this results in a duller finish - like satin or even flat. And this is the part I want to caution people about. If you are going to use oil paints and dilute them with a thinner, always use the exact same paint to thinner ratio if you are going to go back over with multiple layers or spot touch up. Different ratios of paint and thinner dry with different amounts of "dullness." Touch up spots or overlapping layers that are done with a different paint/thinner ratio will stand out like a sore thumb if viewed in the right light. I speak from experience!

[Bob Cleek]

4 hours ago, Dr PR said:

If you are going to use oil paints and dilute them with a thinner, always use the exact same paint to thinner ratio if you are going to go back over with multiple layers or spot touch up.

 

Excellent point! I failed to mention it. When I mix artists' oil paints for modeling, I keep a notebook of the final ratios I use. I measure the tubed paint by the inch or fraction thereof, as extruded from the tube. I put the artists' oil paint on a piece of brown paper bag and let it sit for a half hour or hour to let some of the oil leach out, thereby increasing the oil to pigment ration. I then transfer the oil paint with a palette knife to a small container. (I have a stash of 35mm plastic film cartridge containers, but these are getting more difficult to come by these days.) I add thinner and other conditioners to the bottle using a graduated hypodermic syringe and drop in few BBs (air rifle ammunition like small ball bearings.) I cap the container and shake it like a rattle can. I have a  stash of large hypodermic syringes and needles that I obtained from my veterinarian. Vets use the larger syringes for larger animals. This way, if I want to duplicate a color combination or conditioning, I can do so with pretty good consistency. I don't have much problem matching gloss levels because what I am aiming for in most instances is a totally flat finish.

[CTYankee]

This thread has become an incredible source of knowledge! Amazing all!

 

@Bob Cleek

On 9/26/2020 at 1:36 PM, Bob Cleek said:

The fellow in the video wasn't using primer on his plastic plane model because he was using oil-based enamel which sticks to plastic well

 

Actually- i think that is Vallejo Model Air. Thats a pre-thinned acrylic, right?

[pwog]

Hi James - You are correct. The man in the videos was using Vallejo Model Air acrylic paint. I believe Model Air is pre-thinned for air brushing, even so he diluted the paint more with water.

[CTYankee]

On 9/26/2020 at 1:36 PM, Bob Cleek said:

I seal all my wood with thin shellac. ("Out of the can," which is two pound cut shellac, I'll add 25 to 50 percent alcohol to thin it well.)

 

@Bob Cleek another N00B question- do you use IPA, denatured ethanol, top-shelf vodka ;)?

[Bob Cleek]

6 hours ago, CTYankee said:

 

@Bob Cleek another N00B question- do you use IPA, denatured ethanol, top-shelf vodka ;)?

 

Just cheap denatured alcohol from the hardware store. Make sure you get the clear denatured alcohol, though. In some places, they dye denatured alcohol blue (often when sold as stove fuel) to keep people from selling it as drinking alcohol.

 

[shipman]

11 hours ago, Bob Cleek said:

 

Just cheap denatured alcohol from the hardware store. Make sure you get the clear denatured alcohol, though. In some places, they dye denatured alcohol blue (often when sold as stove fuel) to keep people from selling it as drinking alcohol.

 

Another name for it in the UK is 'Surgical Spirit'. The pink/blue stuff we call 'Methylated Spirit'.

Drinking either is a sure way to go blind. Perhaps that's where the term 'Blind Drunk' comes from?

[bruce d]

24 minutes ago, shipman said:

Another name for it in the UK is 'Surgical Spirit'.

I was surprised to be told by my pharmacist that there is more than one formulation of surgical spirits. Haven't looked into it in detail but he said some 'spirits' contain an oil and others don't. Since I don't intend to put any on a model I just filed it away in the trivia file but seems it might get important if it is used in a paint.

Read the label on your bottle before using this product.

[shipman]

2 hours ago, bruce d said:

I was surprised to be told by my pharmacist that there is more than one formulation of surgical spirits. Haven't looked into it in detail but he said some 'spirits' contain an oil and others don't. Since I don't intend to put any on a model I just filed it away in the trivia file but seems it might get important if it is used in a paint.

Read the label on your bottle before using this product.

Presumably the version called 'rubbing alcohol' contains the oils?

[bruce d]

1 hour ago, shipman said:

'rubbing alcohol' contains the oils?

I asked the same question, he said 'don't bet on it'. His suppliers don't specify the distinction for generic products but the brands are consistent, so he always orders the same brand + some generic stock. 

It is a case of 'read the label'. 

[jim Landis]

Rubbing alcohol is iso-propyl alcohol and you need ethanol...

[Bob Cleek]

Plain denatured alcohol, "ethanol" (in the US) or "methylated spirits," (in the UK) is sold in hardware and paint stores. Isopropyl alcohol and other "spirits" formulated for medical use are sold in pharmacies (in the US) or by "chemists" (in the UK.) 

[ThirdCoast]

There's some great information on this thread. Thanks to everyone for contributing!

 

I'm wondering if anyone could give their experience with drying time. I realize the answer is probably "it depends" but I'm just trying to estimate what kind of time I should expect from a basic wood model that will take a primer coat and couple additional coats of enamel paint. Are we talking something like 8 hours for each coat (so like 3 days for primer, coat 1, and coat 2)?

[pwog]

Excellent question ThirdCoast. I scoured the Internet trying to find the answer, but, I couldn’t find anything definitive. I did find information on some enamel manufacturers websites that suggested waiting at least 24 hours between coats.
 

I’m  on my first build and here is my experience with brushing enamel on wood, so far, as I’m still in the painting process. I am also following the prescribed painting plan that came with the kit. 
 

I primed all the wood using grey primer. Next, I painted flat white. It took me six coats to satisfactorily cover all the primer. I waited 24 hours between each coat. 

 

The next step was to paint the well deck primer grey. Since, the well deck was primed it only took me two additional coats to get the finish I wanted. Again, I waited 24 hours between coats. I am currently painting a jade green over the grey primer. Today I will be painting a fourth coat and I suspect it will need at least two - three more. It’s a long process. 
 

I hope this was helpful. 

[ThirdCoast]

@pwog Wow, it does sound like quite a process! Thank you very much for sharing your experience. Are you also cutting the paint with an enamel thinner? I'm guessing that the more thinner used, the quicker the paint could potentially dry? Either way it, sounds like I should just plan on 1 coat === 1 day.

[pwog]

@ThirdCoast I didn’t thin the primer. I did thin my first coat of white, but probably not enough. With the other coats of white, I dipped my brush in thinner every four-five brush fills. The jade green is much thinner than the white and primer right out of the bottle. All paint is from the same manufacturer. Keep in mind the first three to four coats looked pretty bad, but then started to even out. 
 

[Guillermo Eduardo Madico]

Adding a little of Cobalt Drier will dry oil paint in about 1 hour.  It tends to opaque the paint but I find that to be a good quality for ship models.  Mate finishes look much better to scale to my eye.

My 25 cents,

G

 

[Bob Cleek]

1 hour ago, Guillermo Eduardo Madico said:

Adding a little of Cobalt Drier will dry oil paint in about 1 hour.  It tends to opaque the paint but I find that to be a good quality for ship models.  Mate finishes look much better to scale to my eye.

My 25 cents,

G

 

 

That's the stuff. Grumbacher Cobalt Drier. It will run you between $12.00 and $23.00 with about $8.00 for shipping online for a 2.5 ounce bottle.

 

https://www.dickblick.com/products/grumbacher-japan-drier/?clickTracking=true&wmcp=pla&wmcid=items&wmckw=01520-1004&gclid=CjwKCAjw5p_8BRBUEiwAPpJO614iBw4gljtxANJjIeVltpKBLRyNkW24AsN0NpP7NgPCMS8zKS4qzxoCkIoQAvD_BwE

 

Cobalt drier doesn't tend to darken colors as they age, which occurs with Japan drier, but I've never found the "darkening" to be particularly noticeable.

 

Grumbacher Japan drier in a 2.5 ounce bottle runs around $8.50, considerably less than the cobalt drier.

 

https://www.dickblick.com/products/grumbacher-japan-drier/?clickTracking=true&wmcp=pla&wmcid=items&wmckw=01520-1004&gclid=CjwKCAjw5p_8BRBUEiwAPpJO614iBw4gljtxANJjIeVltpKBLRyNkW24AsN0NpP7NgPCMS8zKS4qzxoCkIoQAvD_BwE

 

However, for about the same price as the 2.5 ounce bottle of Grumbacher Japan drier in the arts and crafts stores, you can buy 16 ounces, a whole pint of the stuff in your local hardware store.

 

https://www.eastcoasthardware.com/161201-wm-barr-sunnyside-japan-drier-72416.html?utm_campaign=google&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&gclid=CjwKCAjw5p_8BRBUEiwAPpJO63e3G7RlSbI9SQZHncg2D1bXofQFlK0FYhSAfw5mSyS4HfhlJiSdMRoCR7sQAvD_BwE