Golden Hind(e) by rkwz - AIRFIX - 1:72

[rkwz]

Hello everyone,

 

Having gained some valuable experience through trial and error with the Airfix HMS Victory (not yet completed) and itching for a new build but not yet confident or patient enough to tackle a POB build, I decided to try my hand at this oldie (but a goodie):

 

 

 

Some dry fitting first ...

 

 

The deck was severely warped OOB so I had to soak it in hot water and after some manipulation, I managed to partially fix it. Further heating will be required to flatten the lower deck.

 

 

This kit is larger in scale compared to the Victory so hopefully that will mean easier rigging and detailing. But conversely I can't use scale as an excuse for shoddy work anymore... 

 

 

 

[rkwz]

While pondering the paint scheme for the build, I noticed above the stern detail representing Bambi in the forest, there are 2 coats of arms.

 

 

The top left hand coat of arms represents Christopher Hatton (Lord Chancellor and sponsor of Drake's voyage).

 

 

However the one the right seems to be Francis Drake's family crest. While I understand the history of the Golden Hind is not complete, I believe Francis Drake would have been granted his crest after sailing back to Plymouth and knighted on board the ship.

 

 

So could the Airfix kit design be a representation of the Golden Hind after it was retired as a public exhibit at Deptford?🤔

 

Anyway, looks like there is much to learn and research before I jump headfirst into the build...

 

 

Thanks for looking in and please share some knowledge/advice!

 

Cheers,

 

Ron

[Baker]

I  follow

In this era there was not much decoration on the stern. And indeed a statue of a bambi ?? 

This ship was intended to operate "behind enemy lines", not to attract attention.

 

But there is little information from ships of this period. And the general shape of the model is pretty good

 

Good luck.

[shipman]

The 'Bambi' is a female red deer, an heraldic emblem used by Drakes sponsor.

 

The ship was launched as 'Pelican', but a year later was re-named 'Golden Hind', to honour the sponsor.

There must be accounts of the ship at Deptford; but does that record survive....a lot of people must have visited. It must be remembered, the Thames would have been full of similar ships, so the only distinctive feature would be the ships deterioration.

 

Any structural and decorative details for this ship simply don't exist, so conjecture is the only option.

 

'the general shape of the model is pretty good' ......a statement based upon what? The only source for ships of this period are idealised illustrations. To glean accurate details is a hopeless task. Several modern museum models exist. I would suggest one of these will give you what you're looking for. I do know the museums do admit their models are their best guess.

 

Who knows, Airfix could have got it exactly right, so a super detailed version of what's in the box would be as accurate as you're likely to get. I must admit, the mouldings shown above look 'convincing', clean and not plastered with unwanted embellishment.

 

BIG TIP....make your own decks.

[Baker]

The general shape of the model LOOKS pretty good (Google translate made an error, or me) haha 😇

 

I did 4 years of study and building to make a painted hull 
is the shape correct?
Is the painting correct?
With or without a balcony? with me with balcony. Correct? I still do not know..

16th century shipbuilding, few rules, many differences, little correct information

 

added some pdf's (all legally downloaded from the internet) about 16th century ship building

elizabethan-merchant-ships-and-shipbuilding.pdf

Full thesis bates.pdf

Furring in light of 16th century ship design_web.pdf

Princess Channel model.pdf

Princess Channel.pdf

red bay 2.pdf

red bay.pdf

scheepsbouw 16e eeuw Engeland.pdf

red bay.pdf

Steere-MA2004 versiering.pdf

spaanse scheepsbouw werkwijze.pdf

 

Need more info : just ask, but you will probably have to wait a little for a answer

Edited November 20, 2020 by Backer

[shipman]

Hoping all goes well with your build, Ron.

Another ha'porth....I think the lozeng coloured decoration so often perpatrated could be entirely spurious.

Plenty of room for sober reflection on that.

[rkwz]

Thanks Patrick and shipman for coming aboard. Oh dear, it looks like I've opened a can of worms with this build haha.

 

Patrick your resources are much appreciated and I will take the time to read them... Your Pelican scratch build is simply inspirational and a source of reference for me! I also have to agree that the shape of the Airfix hull is aesthetically pleasing, one of the reasons I chose this is instead of Revell. There are no faux wood mouldings or raised deck plank edges.

 

Shipman, I've started work cleaning the flashing off, removing those horrible round mold leftovers and filling in holes with putty... Something I didn't do with the Victory 🤫. I also like the more modest stern detailing which maybe is in keeping with early Elizabethan ship building budgets.

 

Now I'm trying to figure out how to replace the deck details without damaging the plastic deck. Otherwise I suppose I could always argue the deck coverings were added to hide/protect the stolen Spanish treasure? 

 

Currently painted the outside of the hull with acrylics which I haven't had much experience with and am too embarrassed to post pics until it's done right 😅. Stay tuned.

 

I was initially thinking of building the ship as a representation of it going undercover as a Spanish vessel during it's raiding mission, but now I'll stick with it in its "retired from service as an Elizabethan tourist attraction" form. Tickets please.

 

[shipman]

Hi Ron. I'm on board after realising 'a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do'.

 

Not sure if you want to make new decks and fix what details there are to that.

Or, do you wish to keep the decks but replace those hatches. Apart from a few location holes there isn't much else.

 

There are those who would encourage you to make wooden decks, and that may be a good idea with this job. The original decks would be fine to fix planking to. That's beyond my territory.

Whatever you do, make some sort of paper copy to record details you will need later.

 

As they are, the decks would benefit from some longitudinal bracing to help fix the warp. If you go about it right, when the deck is glued into the hull, and some pressure is applied until it's dry, it will take the correct level.

 

You mentioned you weren't happy with the hatch covers, instead of gratings. You can follow the moulding lines with a sharp craft knife/drill and file. That way you'd keep the coamings. Then fit gratings....you can buy those.

 

Those decks are as simple as you're ever going to get and would be easy to replace, including the hatches/coamings. Just trace the outlines of what you have.

 

If you want to make new decks, but use the hatches, then  cut around them, leaving a couple of mm border. Run a sharpy along where the shapes meet, then carefully sand on a sheet of glass until you get to the lines you marked. But again, those hatches would be easy to make.

 

Don't forget to add internal detail to the inside of the hull, timbers and such.

 

At that scale, just painting the back of the gun ports won't cut the mustard. But if you open them up. another deck is required. Not impossible, but another can of worms. You need to think through thoroughly 5 steps ahead, as each modification will impinge on something else.

 

Enough for now.

 

 

[Old Collingwood]

Hi,   I planked over the plastic decks in my Black Pearl  kit  - firstly  I sanded the details of the plastic deck  to get a smooth  surface, then I just  used wood planks  (you would be best converting the scale of the model  to get an idea of how (scale wide) the planks would need to be).

After the deck/s  have been planked  (again using wood)  you could make up some gratings frames  and either buy some  gratings kits or somehow mix the plastic  ones in with wood frames.

It will enhace the decks  considerably.

 

OC.

[Baker]

14 hours ago, rkwz said:

looks like I've opened a can of worms with this build haha.

We can go fishing with the worms for bait.

 

In this build I will only give you an idea every now and then.  It's your model and you build it There is some free interpretation in 16th century shipbuilding 

 

Some things that I don't think are right.
The "stairs" on the side of the hull, never seen  them on a drawing of a ship from this era
The draines of the lower deck are also questionable

Grating or hatches? I think : grating that can be closed with hatches

 

 

Edited November 21, 2020 by Backer

[rkwz]

Hi shipman and OC, actually I got some wooden planks ordered for this build, hopefully won't mess it up installing it. While waiting, I'll be working on painting the hull and other odd jobs.

 

I did consider cutting out the gunports and installing a false plastic deck, I may not put too much effort into the false deck since it won't be easily visible, and perhaps a simplified cannon rig as well.

 

12 hours ago, Backer said:

We can go fishing with the worms for bait.

 

In this build I will only give you an idea every now and then.  It's your model and you build it There is some free interpretation in 16th century shipbuilding 

 

Some things that I don't think are right.
The "stairs" on the side of the hull, never seen  them on a drawing of a ship from this era
The draines of the lower deck are also questionable

Grating or hatches? I think : grating that can be closed with hatches

 

 

 

Patrick, just read through some of the PDFs you attached earlier. So much new knowledge I've gleaned from them and am enjoying it, thank you again.

 

Oops have painted over the stairs , but suppose I could argue they were added for the health and safety of Elizabethan tourists. 

 

 

I did notice there seems to be a natural concave curve built into the main deck... does this look right gentlemen?

 

 

 

Please ignore the first coat of paint 😉.

 

There is still much I have to learn, so I will take me time on this...

 

[shipman]

The curve of the deck looks acceptable and appropriate.

[rkwz]

Work begins on the hull preparation before I can get serious about painting, something I learnt the hard way with the Victory...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And now the stern windows are looking at me nervously wondering if they'll be next to go...

 

 

 

 

 

[Baker]

The deck curve

 

English

Spanish

 

[rkwz]

5 minutes ago, Backer said:

The deck curve

 

English

Spanish

 

 

Thanks Patrick, that's incredibly helpful and sets my mind at ease! 

 

Cheers

 

Ron

[Robert Taylor]

Hi Ron, 

I will be following this build with much interest, I have built this model twice in my lifetime the last one being finished 5 months ago,  and I must say it is my Favourite Airfix kit of all time.

 

Happy modelling 🤺⚓👍

[Louie da fly]

Yep, the idea of the curved deck is to let water run off to the sides and out the scuppers. But it also adds strength to the deck beams to have them slightly curved (any weight on the deck puts the beams in compression - rather like the bed of a truck, which bows upwards slightly lengthways, so when the load is added they end up straight - if the bed started out straight it'd bow downwards when the load was added).

 

I'm surprised I've missed this build so far. I like what you're doing with it, and your "kit-bash" is going to lift it above the common run of plastic models. Good to see you've got Backer following your build. He's our resident expert on galleons - what he doesn't know about them isn't worth knowing.

 

Steven

[rkwz]

Thank you everyone for your words of encouragement! December is a busy time of year leading to Christmas so I won't be able to get much done like many of you I'm sure...

 

There is still a lot of cleaning of excess sprue and filling holes with putty, but not nearly as much as the Victory thank god.

 

 

Happily, my deck veneer arrived safely from the Czech Republic (or is it Czechia these days?). I opted for the beech wood version as the Oak grain didn't seem appropriate to me. In hindsight, I could also have painted the deck and saved a few quid...

 

 

I know this may be premature, but here are some progress pics of the paintwork (before washing and touching up).

 

 

 

I've taken Patrick's advice and gone with a chevron design based on the resources he has so kindly shared. Also some assumptions made that Drake was a Man U fan...

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ron

 

[Jeff T]

Very nice paintwork, Ron!  I know how difficult it can be to get red and yellow to look opaque, as they often need multiple coats (depending upon the type of paint used), and yours turned out well. 👍

[rkwz]

6 hours ago, Jeff T said:

Very nice paintwork, Ron!  I know how difficult it can be to get red and yellow to look opaque, as they often need multiple coats (depending upon the type of paint used), and yours turned out well. 👍

Thank you Jeff. I used enamel Matt paints for the detailing, tamiya tape, 2-3 coats and a little patience...

 

although later I heard it isn't a good idea to weather using oil paint on matte surfaces so I may have to just be careful with those patterned sections. Still learning!

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by rkwz

[Danstream]

I like your nice paintwork. I might steal some of your ideas for my Mayflower build. About weathering, please allow me a couple of advices. Yes, you are correct to say that a matt finish is not ideal for oil washes, but there is also another very important reason to consider: the oils work with the same thinner agent of the enamel that I understood you have used. Therefore, the washes would mar your nice paintwork by dissolving it. You should apply a layer that isolate the paintwork from the oil. I am used to build aircraft models, and I used for this purpose a layer of Tamiya clear which, being an acrylic paint, uses a different thinner. Then, on top of that, you can apply oil washes that will also be helped running into the crevices by the glossy surface of the Tamiya clear. Once finished, you have to apply a matt or satin clear to eliminate the glossy shine. In substitution of the Tamiya clear, which I always applied by airbrush, you can use a floor polish called 'Future' or a Johnson 'Pledge' which both are very easy to apply by brush (you will need at least two layers). On line, you can find plenty of instructions about oil weathering, but if you need more details, do not hesitate to ask here.

Best regards,

Dan.

[rkwz]

Thank you Dan, yes I did consider the thinning agents destroying my hard work on the patterned sections!

 

I will definitely take your advice and seal the first few layers of paint before proceeding but I am getting ahead of myself... Still have to mark the waterline, finish off the chevron pattern, decide whether to use acrylic or enamel white for the area below the waterline in keeping with southern hemisphere exploring merchant ships etc.

 

But I am still having fun doing this

[Baker]

I can only repeat what everyone else wrote.
Nice paintwork, looks great.

[kirill4]

Good day Ron!

Nice and acurate job You did!

I have this kit also and plan to build it someday in future( I want to make some small corrections of this kit - to add 4th mast and realign pozition of cannons ports, will try to make it more looks like famous Elizabeth Jonas model), and now it is very interesting for me to watch your building and see this kit "in action" :)))

Wish You All the Best!

Kirill

 

 

Edited December 20, 2020 by kirill4

[rkwz]

1 hour ago, kirill4 said:

Good day Ron!

Nice and acurate job You did!

I have this kit also and plan to build it someday in future( I want to make some small corrections of this kit - to add 4th mast and realign pozition of cannons ports, will try to make it more looks like famous Elizabeth Jonas model), and now it is very interesting for me to watch your building and see this kit "in action" :)))

Wish You All the Best!

Kirill

 

 

Thank you, Kirill. I've had fun with this so far, the parts are nicely molded and easy to work with at this scale, I'm sure you will too when you get to kit bashing the Hind. Why don't you post a log too? 

 

Still battling on with a false deck for the lower deck cannons and making sure everything aligns nicely before glueing the parts together, not to mention waiting for paint to dry between coats...  Lots of learning for this newbie still 

 

[kirill4]

Good Day Ron!

#Recently I've checked content of the box with this kit, and I saw that masts and spars made from very soft plastic...

worry there could be a problem with rigging, when we will reach this stage/they easily could be bended even without apply any forces during installation standing and specialy running rigging , such a braces,lifts etc...

may be there is a sense to replace them for wood?

I based my observation on experience of building my previous model of spanish galleon///in that kit plastic was twice harder than in this GH kit, but even than I had to replace bowsprit( as much loaded parts of rigs) for wood( made it from artist brush)...all other rigs were left original plastic...

 But in this kit I've strong feeling that atleast bowsprit( consider in that period there was no bobstays in use), and upper rigs all, exept fore and main masts probably(mean lower parts of masts), need to be replaced for wood🤔🙄 

#regarding opening my GH build log...ah, need first to complete my previous project of spanish galleon and than start new one :)))

Wish You All The Best!

Kirill

[kirill4]

Ron,

If You didn't see that, I guess this thread of eugen.t  alternative reconstruction GH  will be very interesting for You (there need to be registered and You can change language frm German to English to read threads/there is button google auto translator in the lower left corner of the main page)...

especialy in the part of rigging-see final drwngs\as source of information abt galleon rigging

https://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com/t6619f952-Alternative-Rekonstruktion-der-GOLDEN-HIND-11.html

Edited December 21, 2020 by kirill4

[rkwz]

Thanks Krill, I agree with you. The plastic molded yardarms look good with the detail already molded in but may not hold up well later due to rigging later. I haven't worked with wood much and honestly am a bit worried I'll mess it up, so will be experimenting with bbq skewers or toothpicks and a mini hand plane, watch this space.

 

Funny you mentioned the bowspirit issues, here is a pic of my Victory build for a laugh showing a severe upward bend because there wasn't a counterbalancing stay, whereas the rest of the spars actually turned out ok provided I adjusted the tension in the rigging carefully on either end.

 

 

I must find your spanish galleon log for more inspo! 

 

Cheers

Edited December 21, 2020 by rkwz

[kirill4]

Good day  Ron,

Your Victory look nice, and bowsprit quite strait///atleast I don't see it is bended, some blinde spars on the bowsprit a little bit curved yes...

Make Victory rigged- it is high pilotage I could say!!! :)))

My respect!!!

I didn't give my galleon build log thread - actually ,it is in my signature,You can follow it strait from here :)))

All the Best!!!

[rkwz]

2 hours ago, kirill4 said:

Good day  Ron,

Your Victory look nice, and bowsprit quite strait///atleast I don't see it is bended, some blinde spars on the bowsprit a little bit curved yes...

Make Victory rigged- it is high pilotage I could say!!! :)))

My respect!!!

I didn't give my galleon build log thread - actually ,it is in my signature,You can follow it strait from here :)))

All the Best!!!

 

Sorry, I meant the spritsail yard which was bent upwards, haha. My Victory rig was pretty basic, no time spent making actual rope so I must have saved a year's worth of effort! Not sure I can get away with the Golden Hind at 1:72 scale though...

 

Just read your amazing spanish galleon build log, kirill4... I will be re-reading it again and again, taking notes. You humble me with your kind comments, but I'm really just a two bit hack at this 😅

 

 

Meanwhile at the dockyard...

 

 

 

Started test fitting some false decking. Styrene strips cemented below the gunports, realised later the level was too low and added an extra 1.5mm strip above to compensate. Calipers used to mark out where the strips were to be laid...

 

 

 

Initially planned to use balsawood, then realised my planks weren't wide enough so I flipped it and recut the deck , hence the incorrect direction of the wood grain.

 

I wonder if it is even visible through the gunports? But it'll always be nagging me in the back of my mind so I'll just have to be patient and source some wider planks and use what I've made today as a template/jig.

 

 

Also, I've marked out the waterline using a simple jig (helping hands clamped onto a pencil 😅), but holding off the paint job until I have the time to pop into my local to grab some white acrylic paint...

 

 

Birch wood veneer deck applied with CA and first coat of wipe on poly applied. Hopefully it'll protect it from the inevitable paint and glue splatter later on.

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by rkwz