Cutty Sark by rfolsom - Billing Boats

[NenadM]

Quote

 

Every single model of ship has his/her own spirit and personality. And major lines of personality are determined by little mistakes and deviations every single builder incorporate there in his own unique and unrepeatable way

 

 

I deeply believe in this

 

See you

 

N

[Richard Griffith]

Bob, Nenad's quote above is one of those truisms that applies throughout the ages. 

 

For your model, the copper plates will pick up other drops and 'blemishes', and the overall patina will come into its own.  If you replace the plates for these blemishes, you may have a life time of maintenance.  On the other hand, it is your model and if pristine plates are what you want, go for it.

 

I like the look you have achieved.

 

Duff

[rfolsom]

Nenad; Great quote, and I believe in it wholeheartedly.

 

Duff:  Thanks for the nice words, and as far as ongoing maintenance goes, I will do some touch ups on the copper before the masting and rigging, but once it's mounted to the pedestals, there will be no more fiddling... The "drips" just look a little weird .

 

Lawrence:  Thanks also for the kind words;  you probably constructed the newer model; mine was the old 459 purchased off of ebay about two years ago...

This kit, in my estimation, was about 40 years old, and did not come with the fittings kit.  It also was missing the instructions and the printed sheet that included the main deck.  The printed forecastle deck also came straight across, so I scratch-built all decking.  The windlass is also scratch built.  The kit came with mahogany planking, while very pretty, was out of scale and too coarse grained, and since I opted to paint and copper the hull, I simply ordered enough basswood in scale to plank the hull.  Indeed, except for the bulkheads and keel, the entire ship is scratch built.  I will probably use the kit supplied dowels for all spars, as they seem in scale and in good condition;  some are even pre-tapered.  Any thoughts on the figurehead or pumps?  I will probably purchase these, as I think scratch-building them will probably be beyond my skills..

 

Thanks for the input, gentlemen!

 

~Bob

Edited November 25, 2013 by rfolsom

[NenadM]

Bob, please look at my post #386, I am interested in your opinion, and dont want to overload your topic with my question. Be free to answer directly in topic where you want. This question is surely interesting and significant for your build too

[NenadM]

Any thoughts on the figurehead or pumps?

 

When I start, I have seen some pictures of figurehead made from one piece of wood by hands and Dremel ... I was fascinated, and think ... I can do that.

 

Something like THIS, considering that Nanny is not so complicated ...

 

 

 

in meantime I have seen extraordinary work of Ivan Trtanj, and all of that turn me down... I can not do that

 

 

Then I got Dremel tool ( Einhell ), appetite grows ... Yes I can do that ...

But after working with it, I am not sure any more ....

 

In my TEHNODIDAKTA kit figurehead is made of cast lead, and also I dont like it.

 

So, this is pretty far away, and another (Hmm)^x100 thing... 

 

Pumps ? Honestly, I didnt think about (yet)

Edited November 26, 2013 by Nenad M

[brian2_h]

Hi Bob

 

following your build of the topgallant bulwark made me look at my Del Prado version. After a quick think decided to look at adding this on top of the bulwark provided. A quick review of the Campbell shows 36 panels between poop deck and toilet, and 26 stanchions. A quick calculation and test drawing revealed that dividing the available space in half gives 18 panels each and dividing this space by 3 gives the space for 6 panels, This can easily be divided into halves and then thirds to give the position of each panel. Even better as the 3rd stachion falls between the fourth and fifth panel so this gap only needs dividing into 3 to give the position of each stanchion.

 

By breaking up the length into equal parts this way avoids any cumulative errors creeping in 

 

Hope this makes sense!

[rfolsom]

Hi Brian,

 

This is definitely a good way of dividing the bulwark into even panels and eliminating the cumulative errors, but  I am modeling directly off of my 1:1 plans, and Campbell shows varying panel lengths.  If this is 100% accurate, or an error by Mr. C., I don't know, but I'm leaning towards Mr. C.'s plans.  I also arrived at the same count for both stanchions and panels as you, and the spacing between stanchions remains quite consistent.  There are several stanchions which, in the plans, are superimposed by either a deadeye stay, or a davit, and this was ambiguous as to whether the stanchions were present or not, until I found actual pictures  that clarify the area, and these stanchions were always present.

 

When installing my stanchions, I always measured from several point of reference:

 

1) Starting aft, from the break in the poop deck to each stanchion.

 

2) Distance between each stanchion in order, never assuming 100% equal spacing.

 

3) Distance from stanchion to next available and previously  premarked reference line (section or deck beam line) on the deck, bulwarks, or waterway.

 

4) Distances from stanchion to next 2 available deck landmarks, such as a coaming or mast center.

 

This measuring technique was fairly painstaking, but allowed me to get the most accurate position of each stanchion, and will help form new landmarks for the rest of the build.

 

 I am modeling my topgallant inside trim from 0.3 mm x5mm walnut veneer strips 40 cm long, with 1/32" x 1/16" strip uprights installed directly from Campbell's plans, and then will be drilling out the oval recesses. 

Edited December 2, 2013 by rfolsom

[rfolsom]

Once these thin veneer strips (with uprights) are drilled with the oval recesses, they will be applied to the inside bulwarks.

Edited March 28, 2014 by rfolsom

[brian2_h]

Hi Bob

 

your right in that per Campbells plans the stanchions positions and panels sizes change. Can remember that when doing Technical Drawing at school that getting true sizes from curved surfaces could be a problem. I took the 'easy' route and in view of the scale of the Del Prado CS at 1:90 worked on all distances being the same. Having drawn it out the stanchions neatly cleared the freeing ports as well which was even better.

 

As my topgallant bulwark is being added on top of the current bulwark intend to include pins in the panel uprights to push into the current bulwark to add strength. 

 

Not sure about yours but my Campbell plans were provided by National Nautical Museum in Greenwich and I found that the stated scale is not the actual scale the plans have been printed in due to the printing process, Stated scale is 3/32 i.e 1:128 actual on the plans is 1:140.75 for the 'General View' and slightly different on the other plans. One advantage of having a 'true scale' printed on the plans is that you can check scale.

 

Look forward to your further posts.  

[keelhauled]

Hi Bob,

 

It's looking good.  Nice to have the plans the same size as the build.  I wished that I had gone down and had them enlarged.  Are you planning on modeling the removable rail for the accommodation ladder?  For that matter, are you going to include the accommodation ladder?

 

Marc

[rfolsom]

Brian and Marc;

 

Thank you both for your input!

 

Brian:  My plans were included in my incomplete, yet unstarted, Model 459 Billings kit, purchased off of ebay.  There were actually two copies of each of the three sheets, both identical and in actual 3/32" scale.  I posted one copy of the three on my wall for reference, and secured the other copy of the three away safely after scanning them piecemeal into my computer.  It was then easy to crop and enlarge different areas in photoshop by 166.67% to achieve an accurate 5/32" scale that the ship was modeled in.  I was happy to see that the full scale (i.e. 5/32" ) plans matched almost exactly with the kit's die-cut keel and bulkhead pieces. (I had to add a small, (1/4" I think,) sternpost to the end of the keel to exactly match the plans, but all curves matched up.) 

I too was concerned about possible measurement distortion due to curvature of the bulkheads, but after measuring the greatest curvature that would affect the panels (the first 3 inches after the toilets) and using the theorem provided by our good friend Pythagoras, the measurement error in those three inches amounts to about 1.2 mm total for that area, (about a quarter millimeter for each panel, and much less with less curved areas) an amount that I can live with.

 

Marc, not planning on modeling either of them at this time:  both would be easy additions at any time of the build. (cutting out the removable rail after all rigging is done might be a little tricky, but not too bad).....

 

Best Regards!

 

~Bob

Edited December 3, 2013 by rfolsom

[NenadM]

Bob
 
I kindly please you to take and attach some (as much clear as you can) photos of your CS as it looks today from angles as above
 


 
I have some dilemma and want to chek something (edges of second plank)
 
Thank you
 
Nenad

[rfolsom]

Nenad:  Not sure what you're looking for, but I hope these pictures help.  This area still needs to be finished at and above the white rubbing strake...

 

~Bob

[NenadM]

Bob, I am researching edges of second planking layer on bow and stern according to sternpost, keel, figure holder and coopering layer.

 

See post #441 in my topic

 

Also very useful Lou`s answer and links !!!

Thx for photos

Edited December 9, 2013 by Nenad M

[NenadM]

...  It was then easy to crop and enlarge different areas in photoshop by 166.67% to achieve an accurate ...

 

Bob

 

it seems that you are more familiar with photoshop by me, and I need some litlle help there

 

My original TEHNODIDAKTA plans have no mark of scale, and all drawings of ship are a little bit larger than in Campbell plans. So, my idea is to rescale Campbel plans to scale it to TEHNODIDAKTA plans, and to print them again in that rescaled size, but I can not determine the percentage of increase it. Only way I see is to determine same benchmarks for measuring on both plans, and to calculate percentage.

 

By your experience, what points on plans are optimum for benchmarking ? And, please, crop them as pictures and past in post ( my English and poor understanding of nautical terms)

 

Thx

 

Nenad

[Sailor1234567890]

Nenad, If you feel you have a poor understanding of nautical terms, just ask me. I LOVE nautical terminology. As a naval officer I'm a stickler for it. Odds are I can help. If I don't know off the top of my head, I am sure I can find out pretty quickly with my library and google. Plus I love doing that sort of thing.

[NenadM]

Thanks Daniel, I ll keep it in my mind. I have two very old books with nautical dictionary with more than 300-500 terms. Only problem is - books are not with me every time I need some meaning, and description of one unknown term is made with another unknown term. If I jam somewhere, I ll contact you.

For now, I successfully guess what it is about in posts

 

Thx again

 

PS

 

Bob, sorry for little stolen space of your log

[Richard Griffith]

HI Nenad, to get a percentage between the two plans, draw vertical lines at the stern rabbet and at the bow rabbet on both plans, at the same place on both.  Then divide one by the other to get your percentage increase. 

 

You can double check this percentage by doing another calculation for another known dimension, such as the height of the main mast. 

 

Duff

[rfolsom]

Happy New Year Lawrence;  My good friend from Belgrade was asking  a couple of questions.

 

I was born and raised in Nebraska, English is my language.

 

Thank you for your compliment and Best Wishes to you and yours in 2014.

 

~Bob

[NenadM]

Oh, Bob waked up !!!!!

 

So, we can expect some photos of progress !!!

 

I pull up a chair and inpatiently wait

 

Nenad

Edited January 7, 2014 by Nenad M

[rfolsom]

Ok.  Haven't posted in awhile, (haven't worked on the builds for awhile) but did a little experimenting with Al cans tonight.  I like the effect that Nenad has around his freeing ports, but I had no success with copper foil or wood veneer.  With my previous experimentation making deadeye strops out of Al, It was too tedious to measure and cut, so I just cut a can in half, and made random small cuts all along the perimeter.  I then easily found strips that matched my dimensions; all without pulling out calipers or a ruler...(kinda like picking lumber from a lumberyard).  The ponce wheel I used for dimpling my copper tiles proved effective in making simulated rivets in 2.5mm strips, so I am now enthusiastic about my build once again.

 

Bob

Edited March 28, 2014 by rfolsom

[NenadM]

I like it, Bob

 

I wish I could find in Belgrade "ponce wheel" which I am thinking a lot about when considering coopering job somewhere in front of me. As I wrote somewhere, When you walk in Belgrade windows watching, it seems you can find and bye everything. But, when you look for particular thing, you need more than two shoes to spend before ( if you) find that

 

For instance, my hothead son yesterday blow up head of my Einhell set, and only place when I can find spare parts is in village more than 20 km from Belgrade where is Einhell service stated. In shops which sell Einhell tools (a lot of them) there is not (?!?!?)

 

What type of glue will you use to connect wood and Aluminium ? Maybe little nails ?   

[mtaylor]

Nenad,

 

Look in a shop that sells sewing supplies.  The wheel is used to trace patterns for making clothing, etc.

[coffeebeans]

Hi bob, looked through your log and will be taking some notes for my cutty, great work!!!

[coffeebeans]

Hi bob, just looking over the deck portion of your log, just wondering is the style you have layed the deck on the poop deck a trait of the original before rebuild? also what have you sealed it with.

 

Thanks Luca

[rfolsom]

Hello, Nenad.  I plan on affixing these with CA glue.  I'll have to test this on my test piece first, along with the paint, but I think it should be OK.  Nails would have to be very small indeed, and I don't like drilling through aluminum, and my bulwarks are only 1/32 inch thick basswood.  I have to do a little testing and research using Lou's photos (Thank you Lou) before I get underway with this detail step.  I probably won't do the  riveting details on the inside of the bulwarks, as all my stanchions are in place already, and the detail will probably be lost after the main rail, with belaying pins, ropes, etc. are in place.

 

~Bob

[rfolsom]

Luca;

 

Thank you for the kind comments;  as far as the poop decking goes, I am satisfied how I planked around the curved deckhouse and the outer planking following of the curvature of the hull:  however, my planking immediately aft of the deckhouse is an inaccurate compromise using plank "wedges" (for lack of a better term).  I hope to hide this with the steering box.  These planks should have been individually tapered in this area.

 

The deck is made of individual 1/16" x 1/32" basswood planks edged with a black fabric marker (tested many methods, this one is the best, in my opinion, no bleeding, and well defined lines that remain after sanding)  stained with Minwax golden oak, and sealed with Minwax spray polyurethane clear gloss.

 

And yes, I did use gloss, as I am not sure if I will be casing the model upon completion, so the dust will hide any excess sheen.  (Plus, it's what I had on hand from my miniature furniture building, and I'm too cheap to spend another 8 bucks on satin....)

 

~Bob

[NenadM]

Bob, with thin bulwarks, here is realy big problem to get it all strong enough. I am thinking about this a lot, during endless cleaning my massive bulwarks, thanking God for this   

[rfolsom]

Nenad;  I was very (pleasantly) surprised at how strong these thin bulwarks became after the addition of the stanchions and "stanchion rail".

 Indeed, I cracked them several times during the coppering process when the hull was inverted.  I would advise coppering your hull before doing the inner bulwark details such as the stanchions.

 

~Bob

[DSiemens]

Just did a quick read of your log/  Great stuff!  The Cutty Sark has always been one of my favorites.  Keep up the good work.