ancre Le Rochefort by No Idea - 1/24th Scale - First POF Build

[SaltyScot]

19 hours ago, Some Idea said:

I find that a good layer of it rubberises much easier than a thin coat 

 

I wrote that one down, good tip.

[Some Idea]

Some more work completed this week - I've been getting on with the planking between the mouldings which will complete the stern planking.

I also caught up with quite a bit of nailing that required finishing

The ship really is starting to look solid now

Finally I made the decorative moulding for the first beam on the quarterdeck

I want to make the gratings next but I need to wait for Gerard to confirm whether I have read the drawings correctly or not.  It shouldn't take long for a reply and then I can make something I've not made before.

 

Mark

[Keith Black]

 Golly that's pretty. 

[JacquesCousteau]

Very nice work!

[SaltyScot]

Exquisite is what this is......

[Some Idea]

Guys thanks for the lovely comments 👍

 

I've made a start on the gratings which seem to be going ok but I'm not sure that they are correct so I do need a little help.

 

The gratings have a gap of 2.3mm between laths - every example I have seen of making gratings involves using a table saw to cut the slots.  Unfortunately I don't have a blade of that width and I also don't have an arbor where I can safely stack blades together.

 

The closest cutter I have is a 2mm end mill so thats what I used.  It took a while to mill it all out as each slot took 2 passes but I got there in the end

 

I then cut the parts to the required sizes and also cut the flat laths

I made a little jig to help with assembly which made the job very easy

My first grating squared off and its actually the correct size which surprised me

Now my question - looking at the underside I have the gaps shown in the picture below.  Is this correct or have a done something wrong or missed something out?  If someone could give me some advice it would be very welcome.

 

Thanks Mark

[AON]

Your grating looks damn good to me.

The spaces (gaps) should be there.

[Some Idea]

7 minutes ago, AON said:

Your grating looks damn good to me.

The spaces (gaps) should be there.

Hi Alan - thanks very much for the reply mate 

 

I was really unsure whether I had done something wrong - so in the meantime I've been referring to Bernard Frolich's book "The art of ship modelling".  I can see by his photos that yes the gaps should be there.  This now gives me the confidence to carry on and get the other 2 glued together.  Mind you I seem to have cut enough timber to make another 20 🤣  Every days a school day!

[AON]

Don't throw them away. They might get used down the road!  👍

[Dziadeczek]

You made them the right way.

Gratings consist of two different strips of wood. Thicker ledges ('toothed' ones) and thinner battens placed in these teeth. 

Important thing to remember is that the ledges should run athwartship (from bulwark to bulwark) and the battens should run parallel to the long axis of the hull, - as seen from the top, and not the opposite way.  Here is a short article on the topic:    Improving Basic Details – Getting the Gratings Right | Ship Modeler

I once took a pic of the underside of the USS Constitution's gratings, where you can clearly see this "gaps" you are referring to...

Thomas

Edited September 20 by Dziadeczek

[Some Idea]

3 minutes ago, Dziadeczek said:

You did them the right way.

Gratings consist of two different strips of wood. Thicker ledges ('toothed' ones) and thinner battens placed in these teeth. 

Important thing to remember is that the ledges should run athwartship (from bulwark to bulwark) and the battens should run parallel to the long axis of the hull, and not the opposite way.  Here is a short article on the topic:    Improving Basic Details – Getting the Gratings Right | Ship Modeler

I once took a pic of the underside of the USS Constitution's gratings, where you can clearly see this "gaps" you are referring to...

Thank you so much for this information and fantastic pictures  - Mark

[Tonphil1960]

Fantastic work. Kudos !! 

[Some Idea]

Moving forward with the gratings I knew that the top faces required a curve but what I had missed was that they did not just sit on top of the carlings and beams.  They are actually let into the carlings so that they sit within the beams.  This picture explains it far better.

So I cut the bevels into the carlings - I also discovered that I had set the 4th beam about 2mm too far forward so I had to cut into the beam too.

I sanded the curve on the gratings using a face sander with 320 grit paper.  This worked really well 

Then finally I drilled and fitted the 252 nails and fitted the gratings

Thanks for the advice and help in the making of these parts it was very much appreciated.  I'm going to have a go at making the rudder next.

 

Mark

 

[Some Idea]

The rudder - This is made of 2 quite substantial pieces of wood which are 11.8mm wide.  I hadn't really studied the drawings of it before but it became obvious very quickly that it was going to be harder to make than first thought.

The challenge was working out the cutting order in sequence as the rudder is tapered in 2 dimensions.  Once tapered holding down onto the mill becomes difficult so I worked out how many tool cuts I could do with both pieces still being square.  I also cut the 2 pieces individually rather than gluing them together first.

After gluing together the first few cuts are straightforward as I'm just bringing the wood down to size 

Next I cut the taper on the main body of the rudder - the rudder widens away from the stern.  It's not much of a taper; it transitions from 8mm wide at the stern post to 10mm.  I did this but cutting a series of steps into the rudder which can be sanded smooth later.

Sketchy machining warning  - now I can't just turn the piece over and repeat as it will no longer sit flat on the tooling plate.  So I used a couple of laths to level it out but as you can imagine you are not going to get a good work hold doing it this way.  Its just a case of giving it a go and holding your breath!

I wouldn't recommend it but I got lucky and nothing moved.  It was nice to see the taper so even considering my less than safe practice.

Next to be machined was the taper on the leading edge of the rudder.  I worked this out to be 51 degrees which worked out OK.  Once again gripping the rudder was a bit hit and miss due to the tapers.  Small cuts and taking your time helps enormously in these situations 

After a good clean up the finished (wooden part) of the rudder

I need to make the pintles next but I'm waiting on a delivery of brass and also some silver solder.  They also look like a good challenge.

 

Mark

 

[SaltyScot]

I want a mill just like yours!!

[dvm27]

I believe that 90% of milling is getting the correct setup. Congratulations on mastering both aspects of woodworking.

 

I hadn't notice that you changed your name from "No Idea" to "Some Idea". I believe you're ready for another change to "Many Idea(s)".

[Pirate adam]

Looking amazing. The milling is tricky and you made it look easy. 
 

Adam

[Some Idea]

6 hours ago, SaltyScot said:

I want a mill just like yours!!

Hi mate - mines a Sherline mill; its the manual metric version

6 hours ago, dvm27 said:

I believe that 90% of milling is getting the correct setup. Congratulations on mastering both aspects of woodworking.

 

I hadn't notice that you changed your name from "No Idea" to "Some Idea". I believe you're ready for another change to "Many Idea(s)".

Thanks Greg I did get a bit lucky with the piece not moving but I'll take it as a win.  Since looking at the pintles I've noticed that I need to cut a further relief into the rudder.  This is going to take some thought but I've plenty of time as I'm still waiting on my delivery of silver solder.  The name change 😀  well I think I've got a bit better since I started the build 🤣

5 hours ago, Pirate adam said:

Looking amazing. The milling is tricky and you made it look easy. 
 

Adam

Thanks Adam 👍

Edited October 3 by Some Idea

[Some Idea]

So having discovered that I didn't cut the reliefs for the pintles I thought I'd give it a go.  This would have been so much easier when the piece was still square.

I got a good result and it needed to be done.  The pintles are made out of 1mm x 2.3mm brass so they need to sit flat as trying to force them into shape just will not work and damage the rudder.  You can see below the much better beds for them

I also have made the iron bands that reinforce the rudder around the tiller hole

Thanks for all of the comments and likes they really are inspiring.  I'm off to Malta for a week today so I'll catch up with you all when I get back

 

Mark

[Toolmaker]

I have managed to miss a couple of your updates Mark but enjoying catching up now. Glorious craftsmanship, really lovely. Those gratings look fab.

 

An additional method that can work for large radius requirements (like the top of the gratings) is to put a fly cutter in the mill and then kick the head over. One side of the radius sweep will give you a concave and the other side will give you a convex surface.

Just to mess with your head a little more, using a rotary table for the work piece, and then a fly cutter in a tilted head can produce convex/concave spheres.

 

As I said, brilliant work mate.

[cotrecerf]

Excellent workmanship

[Tonphil1960]

Looking great 👍 

[Some Idea]

On 10/3/2025 at 5:32 PM, Toolmaker said:

I have managed to miss a couple of your updates Mark but enjoying catching up now. Glorious craftsmanship, really lovely. Those gratings look fab.

 

An additional method that can work for large radius requirements (like the top of the gratings) is to put a fly cutter in the mill and then kick the head over. One side of the radius sweep will give you a concave and the other side will give you a convex surface.

Just to mess with your head a little more, using a rotary table for the work piece, and then a fly cutter in a tilted head can produce convex/concave spheres.

 

As I said, brilliant work mate.

Hi Paul thanks for the nice comments. Great idea using a fly cutter and rotary table I never would have thought of using them. Funnily enough I have both so that idea is going in the memory bank for later 👍

 

14 hours ago, cotrecerf said:

Excellent workmanship

Thanks cotrecerf 👍

 

11 hours ago, Tonphil1960 said:

Looking great 👍 

Thanks Tonyphil1960 👍

[Hubac's Historian]

You have really made a lot of progress, here, Mark.  Just beautiful work all around!

[Some Idea]

On 10/5/2025 at 7:59 PM, Hubac's Historian said:

You have really made a lot of progress, here, Mark.  Just beautiful work all around!

Thanks Marc!  Good to hear from you.

 

I've never made pintles before so I did a little research to see how others had made them.  I saw examples where the strap was soldered around the front of the pin which was then filed away to move the rudder closer to the stern post.  I didn't think this method would work for me as getting the 1mm thick strap to sit exactly around the pin seemed slim so I ruled that out.  Frolich in his book says to make them out of a solid piece to get a very good fit.  I thought that this was a great idea but struggled to think of a way to hold the piece whilst I was making it so I also ruled this out.  I decided to just try and make them exactly the way that Gerard has drawn them in the monograph.

 

The brass used was  1/16" (1.55mm) solid rod for the pin and 1mm x 2.3mm for the strap.  I needed to silver solder the strap directly to the side of the pin to achieve the fit that I wanted.  As silver solder has virtually no filling properties I needed to make a jig to hold each piece tightly in place whilst soldering.

 

I used a vermiculite block which I drilled a hole for the pin to sit in and then milled a couple of brass blocks to hold the straps.

It took me 3 attempts until I found the correct relationship between the pin and straps.  The first attempt set the pin slightly too high;  the second attempt set the straps a little too high but the third was just about right.

Making the other bends was simple - what I did was cut a light line using a saw through the inside of the bend to get a clean result.  I also had to make the other fitting on the rear of the rudder that the chains attach to.  Once made I cleaned them up and drilled the holes in all of the pieces and also the rudder.

Finally all of the parts were blackened and fitted using just small amounts of epoxy resin.  

So thats another challenge completed and I'm hoping to get a nice close fit to the stern post.  The pintles really are solid I just hope I've left enough space to slide them onto the gudgeons - in theory I have!

 

So the gudgeons will be my next job.

 

Thanks Mark 

Edited October 12 by Some Idea
Misspelt name

[Keith Black]

 Beautiful work, Mark. 👍

[Some Idea]

On 10/12/2025 at 2:44 PM, Keith Black said:

 Beautiful work, Mark. 👍

Thanks Keith 

 

Work continues on the gudgeons - I thought that would be easier than the pintles - I was wrong 🤣

 

 I started in the same way as the pintles by bending them to shape and then silver soldering the parts together.  I could show you all of the ones that didn't make the cut that I threw away but it would take too many photos.  The tube is 3/32 to accept the 1/16th pin - silver soldering tube needs to be done carefully as if the tube gets too hot it will simply collapse.

The 3 gudgeons in their rough state which are pretty much at their final shape but they will need a little fettling to get them tighter to the hull.

The monograph explains that the gudgeons require recessing into the stern post to reduce the gap between the rudder.  I did this but somehow slightly split the wood each side of the recess.  I'm hoping that when I glue them in place I will be able to improve the look a little.

How the gudgeons look on the stern post - On the side that is not planked I think I will just leave that side of the gudgeon sitting away from the hull.  I will leave the fixing holes without nails too but I would like to know what others think about this.  I could bend it over and nail it to the frames but from the stern it would look uneven.  Please let me know you opinions  

So now for a massive moment for me in this build - I put the rudder on with the gudgeons just holding on my friction!  AND IT FITTED!!!!!  Ok the top gudgeon is very slightly low but I'll take that as a win!!!

A couple of photo's from the stern

One photo from the poop deck

So it's still an ongoing part but sometimes I make a part that just surprises me that I pulled it off - it's just one of those things.  So still loads to do before it's finished;  I need to recess the gudgeons a little more to get the rudder slightly closer and make the tiller arm.  I also need to clean up the gudgeons; drill the fixing holes and chemically blacken them.

 

The next time the rudder is fitted its not coming off again (I hope) 

 

Thanks to you all for your support

 

Cheers Mark  

[druxey]

Definitely a win, Mark! I agree that the gudgeons need more recessing; ideally there should be no gap between rudder and post, if you can achieve it.

[Some Idea]

4 hours ago, druxey said:

Definitely a win, Mark! I agree that the gudgeons need more recessing; ideally there should be no gap between rudder and post, if you can achieve it.

Thanks druxey - I think I should be able to halve the gap as it is now without too much bother which should make things look better.

[dvm27]

Mark, what I do on the unplanked side is insert a small filets of boxwood (or holly in this case) under the gudgeons that are the same width so that the gap is filled.