Brig Eagle 1814 by bdgiantman2 - 1/48

[bdgiantman2]

Finally I have a little update about Eagle.  Feels good to be making sawdust again. I have had to remake part of the stem of Eagle. Should have left the original alone, sigh. Also am starting to tackle making some of the bow and hawse timers for Eagle, been doing a lot of research on here about how you guys make these pieces.  I didn't take any new pictures of this part but am also making some more stern timbers. 

[bdgiantman2]

Hello my friends, I have a question for you as I attempt to slowly continue. I know that this is my model, but I just want to see what you all suggest.

 

In the enclosed picture, you see a close-up of Eagle's keel and the start of her keelson. My question involves the first piece of the keelson. Currently this piece is cut from Boxwood, I will have to re-cut it either way to get the correct shape as well as sand down the outer pieces. I am debating making the keelson out of Yellow Alaskan Cedar like the ribs will be.

[Chuck Seiler]

Brian,

 

    I am very jealous of your weather.  100 degrees for over a week here in Santee.  It is a little cooler where you used to live.

 

    Part of the answer to your question depends on whether you will paint the keel/keelson or not.  If the area in question will be painted, I don't see where it makes a difference if it is the same wood as the exposed part.  If unpainted, it should be the same wood (IMO).

 

    However, I do think you ar making a mistake by using AYC for the keel and frames.  In my opinion, too soft.  I would recommend cherry for the frames and (if painted) the keel.  Modeler's Sawmill has good cherry.

[bdgiantman2]

Thanks for the reply, Chuck! I hope that you are doing well buddy.

 

The temps in Denver today is supposed to be 98 degrees, so not that much cooler. We could actually set a new record today weather-wise. As you know, my parent's house is not far at all from Santee, I used to overlook Santee attending Grossmont College for years. 

 

The keel pieces I have made and used thus far are all made out of Boxwood. I am debating about staining the wood making up the actual keel. Bill Edgar, the guy I am trying to follow in construction style, stained his keel for sure. But I also really like the colors that Chuck Passaro's Winnie model has turned using Wipe-on-Poly. I am highly unlikely to apply any paint itself on this model other than painting the wales black and red around the perimeter of gun ports, although I have humorously considered painting head of capstan when I get to that step. 

[Chuck Seiler]

I erroneously mentioned painting the keelson.  I was thinking false keel.  Keelson would not be painted.

 

If you are going to stain or natural finish, I would keep the keel wood the same as stem.  I still recommend cherry for frames.  Alaskan Yellow Cedar for hull planking would work out very well.  I have used it for planking and it looks really nice with either a Wipe on Poly or Tung Oil finish.  (be careful of the splinters) 😜

[bdgiantman2]

Yellow Alaska Cedar definitely looks great as planking.  I just was trying to follow the advice of Mr. Passaro for whatever it's worth of having as few as possible varieties of wood on my model.  I will admit that right now I am looking at three different types of wood being used on this model when the finished version finally comes out.

 

I'm not trying to pick on anyone at all in any form, but I am feeling better about my progress after reading a re-shared blog of a very experienced model builder on here talking about how took 30 years to build one of his models. Hopefully my build wouldn't be quite that long, but it will be a while with the pace I am going around working. 

[bdgiantman2]

Hello friends. I'm sorry that I haven't posted in a very long time any progress on the ship. To give an update, I have decided to totally remake the keel of this ship as I have broken it a few times unfortunately and am wanting to mimic some of the construction styles that Mr. Passaro is using on his model of Speedwell. Also I did not plan well for doing the groves in the deadwood as my plans show and I have some new thoughts on how to do these. But all is not completely at a standstill for me with my Brig Eagle. Been doing lots of research and figuring out future steps as best as able. For example I was recently able to finally get useful information about interior of Niagara and it appears very similar to what Bill Edgin drew up with a few modifications and I of course want to make a few more.  A friend of mine tried helping me fix my bandsaw last fall and I was trying the saw again only to immediately see the blade fall off again after turning on the saw. 🤬🤬🤬So until I can get the saw fixed again it's going to be difficult for me to make any new progress. Once I get more money coming my way again I want to see about getting a Byrnes tablesaw as many of you keep raving about it in blogs.

[bdgiantman2]

Alrighty, friends! Needing a break from all the political hubbub and thankfully I have been finding answers. With enormous thanks to Mr. Passaro as well as Greg, I have been doing research involving the cant frames and hawse timbers. Plans of the Eagle originally done by A&M University when Dr. Crisman found the wreck off Lake Champlain clearly show two cant frames (the area circled in red in picture 1, Frames Q and R using the plans from Bill Edgin. And there is spacing where Frame S should be that perfectly makes the third cant frame). I have decided to copy the idea by Mr. Passaro used on his Speedwell blog for the cant frame areas. Then, using a compass,  I was able to get the angle of the frames off the keel (the angled lines done in cyan). Then the dark blue box shapes in picture 3 will be the hawse timbers but will need to redo this incorporating the spacer pieces where the anchor cable openings will be.  And for those of you wondering, the green boxes are following the construction Mr. Passaro used in the Winnie project strengthening the cathead pieces with the forward mast bitt frames. Hopefully very soon will be making sawdust again! Peace ✌️

 

Edited July 7 by bdgiantman2

[bdgiantman2]

Another update. Even though I have yet to remake the keel as don't have money right now to buy more wood plus still needing to fix my saw, I have began the shaping of the hawse timbers for my model of Eagle. This will be a long process in making and shaping these pieces more, especially on the insides.  I am planning to be installing 1/32 inch spacers between the frames of the hawse timbers that have yet to be ordered. But this is where I am as another snow day in Denver.

[bdgiantman2]

Hello friends. I know it's been a long time since I last posted on this project. Yes, I am still alive and following different projects on this site. Been primarily working, and I am hoping to purchase some wood soon and get back on this project.  For my birthday just over a month ago, I was given a new mini table saw by a Chinese company that I am really hoping will help making some of the cuts wanting to make. Likely will still need to get the larger Byrnes saw at some point but right now that is beyond what I am able to afford.

 

I would like to take dedicate the rest of this build to an influential mentor, Ed Quam, who passed away on August 19th. He was a very skilled builder and was an encouragement to me. I just hope that my progress will do him proud. 

 

Peace ✌️, and hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving 🦃and wishing everyone an early Merry Christmas 🎄

 

Brian D. 

Edited November 26, 2023 by bdgiantman2

[bdgiantman2]

Hello friends. Merry Christmas to all and hope everyone is in good health and making progress on models.

 

While I haven't made any physical progress on my ship model, there is plenty of other stuff going on to be telling about. Like I mentioned in previous post, I was give a mini table saw for my birthday. Haven't had a chance to use it yet, but I anticipate stuff soon. When I am able to get my USB drive issues fixed (the disk had the audacity to just stop working on me with no warning at all and many important pictures and CAD files on there) as well as lingering tool problems I plan to make sawdust again.  Lots of research going on in the mean time. This past year, I acquired two books, The Anatomy of the Ship HMS Blandford (British 20 gun 6th rate) by Peter Goodwin and Le Cygne by Jean Boudriot. Both of these books have been very helpful and interesting. Blandford was the same length and number of guns as Eagle, but was ship-rigged (3 masts) and had a whole additional deck than Eagle making her taller out of the water as well as being a century prior.  Cygne is smaller than Eagle but the same time period and also a brig configuration plus she also has the additional deck that Eagle didn't have, there are features about her decking and rigging that are very helpful. However, Brig Eagle has a wider beam than both of the European ships - about 7 feet wider than Blandford and a solid 10 feet wider than Le Cygne. Also been dusting off my very rusty CAD skills attempting to make drawings similar to some of you modelers - stalled for now again because of the USB issues. I know more CAD people are using SOLIDWORKS which I never learned about during early college years, but still plugging along.  

 

So anyways, that is what is going on for now and probably will be waiting for better outdoor conditions.

 

Brian D. 

Edited May 12 by bdgiantman2

[bdgiantman2]

It's been a slow year in the making with progress, but here is a snippet of my attempts so far using AutoCAD doing a 3D edition of how Eagle would have looked and getting shapes of her ribs.  I am open to feedback concerning this and suggestions how to proceed.

 

[Roger Pellett]

I don’t know what your artistic vision is for this model but if it is to accurately show hull structure, framing, deck beams, etc. I’m sure that you realize that the vessels built to defend the American Lakes were not built to British dockyard standards.  I have read that Noah Brown was told by one of the naval commanders that Lake vessels only needed to be capable of winning one battle. For example, Brown sandwiched Eagle’s deck beams between two deck clamps and omitted all knees.  As a consequence Eagle was built in a few weeks and was able to take part in the battle to prevent the British from invading via Lake Champlain.

 

Cant frames should be as simple as possible.  Also, Noah Brown had no need to conserve lumber.  Another possibility would be to “ghost” this unknown area.  This could be done by substituting a different construction technique; even a solid shaped block.

 

These are suggestions offered because you are still in the design stage.  In the end, it’s your model of an interesting subject.

 

Roger

[bdgiantman2]

Hello Roger, thank you for the input. Some of the information I did know, others I didn't. The knees being omitted, for example, I did know about which Dr. Crisman described well in his thesis papers.  I have tried studying in more depth and details the sonar pictures provided of the wreck looking at areas such as the possible hawse timbers in the bow which has either completely deteriorated or maybe buried in mud. And while it is very well documented that  many construction short-cuts were taken as possible to speed up the building process, I personally can't imagine the Browns altering the standard construction especially about her bow. Many of the models I have seen of Brig Eagle show her with bow timber construction more like what you find on modern steel vessels, which I don't believe would be historically accurate which is why I am drawing her with traditional hawse timbers. If I remember correctly I do think that many clipper ships have same bow timber used real life that the models of Eagle show, but the clippers were half a century out still during 1814 war and the Browns were gone in history by then as well.

 

It is amazing learning increasing details about this project. The population of Vergennes, VT, at the time when the ship was constructed is estimated to have been 700-800 individuals including lumberjacks and carpenters and fur hunters -- so the Brown brothers had a good supply of workers to recruit for the project. It is quite a feat that they built ships that size that fast, had to be working around the clock all hours. And despite having used a lot of unseasoned wood for the project, the ship was floating reportedly for a decade following her famous moment in history before nature did its thing and Eagle slipped under the water entirely. This tells me  she may have been rebuilt with better planks after the war although the wreck doesn't provide such information that we can tell, or else there was a big enough furnace that was at the construction site must have dried the starboard side of the ship enough to keep that side intact for more than two centuries. 

Edited May 13 by bdgiantman2

[Roger Pellett]

If you have already done so, I highly recommend that you get or borrow a copy of the book Coffins of the Brave.  Edited by Kevin Crisman it includes chapters on the archeological evidence from each of the wrecked American and British warships found on the Great Lakes and Lake Champlain.  In most cases he includes drawings reconstructed from this evidence.  You should be able to borrow a copy via inter-library loan as I found half a dozen via WorldCat in Colorado libraries.  The University of Denver has a copy.

 

The value of this book is that it includes information on many smaller ships built in a frontier setting.  While the bows always seem to be missing from the wreckage there are a couple of examples where remnants of cant frames exist.

 

Roger 

Edited May 14 by Roger Pellett

[bdgiantman2]

I used to have a copy of that article from Coffins of the Brave, until the USB I had it stored on decided to cease working for me without giving any warning at all.  I will have to get a new copy downloaded.

[Roger Pellett]

Also, check out the articles for other ships in the book.  You may find some useful examples of hull structure for Lake built vessels.  I think tat you will find your local library in tracking down  a copy.  This is one of those books that deserves to held in your hand.

 

Roger

[bdgiantman2]

Hello friends. With my limited abilities at this time to be working on the keel and ribs like I am wanting to, I have changed my focus for the time to the favorite topic of the gun carriages.  I have provided you a picture of the wheel chassis for one of the carronades. I found pieces of styrene that came molded in a square shape and filed away one of the sides. That provided me the opening for the wheels and the block of wood that I make still. Each of wheels are 1/16" wide, used a small diameter dowel I found in my workshop that proved the perfect size.  

[bdgiantman2]

With the weather remaining nice here, I have been attempting to make new progress despite limitations involving certain power tools.  Currently working on several more of Eagles rib frames in addition to more on the guns from my last post. Using a giant sanding block a member of my local guild gave to me, I thinned down the two widest frames on Eagle and have them sitting in position (Frames 7 and 8 on the jig plan). The frames of identical shape immediately behind are being shaped up and will be constructed hopefully soon.  Also been attempting some other rib construction both in bow and stern (Frame P in the bow and Frame 36 which is sternpost).  In the photo you will also see the keel guides I have made but haven't yet screwed into place yet.

 

Brian D

[bdgiantman2]

Another quick update. I am slowly continuing to shape frames. As had mentioned in post 39 (April 2023 *gasp*) I had even started experimenting with hawse frames. Today I cut out the excess wood around the first hawse timbers for both port and starboard. I know lots of thinning and trimming remains, and many frames still to make. Feels good to feel sawdust again.

Edited August 31 by bdgiantman2
included picture

[bdgiantman2]

Hello friends, I am looking again for suggestions from those of you who know more than I do. I should have noted this a lot sooner, but I've found out that the pewter cannons I purchased were not made correctly. None of the eight long cannons have the proper cascabel ball like supposed to. Does anyone on here have experience working with pewter and can give recommendations for fixing this? I have never personally tried doing any casting previously let alone do work with pewter before this project and have no clue what to do. Thank you in advance.

 

Brian D.

[Gregory]

You might consider posting in “ ..Metal Work or Deck furniture, guns, boats, etc. “, and getting more help for casting..

Edited October 4 by Gregory