New and YES I read the mystery model post. Please help identify!!!

[OmegaDragon01]

Hi there!

So my neighbor recently passed on and he left us this model ship. I realize it's not in great condition, but I don't want an appraisal or anything. I was really just hoping you guys could identify the ship for me? I've searched for what seems like hours and can't even lock down her country of birth. The interesting part, for me anyway, is the dragon figurehead and the two turrets on the stern. She weighs roughly 17 pounds, is ~45" long, deck is ~8" wide and biggest sail is ~20" wide, and ~39" tall.

 

I'm not an expert on models, but used to do some model rockets and some model cars back in my younger years (not that that means I have ANY experience with ships, they seem like a league of their own!) I have been browsing the site and my interest is definitely piqued, but I haven't decided if this restoration is a project worth undertaking. Right now Im just really curious about this ship's origins. So can anyone help me out? Ever seen this one before? ANY info would be greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks in advance for just having an awesome community!

[GrandpaPhil]

Welcome to Model Ship World!

Edited July 23, 2021 by GrandpaPhil

[allanyed]

Omega

It looks like a mass produced decorator model.  Sorry to say this probably does not represent any real ship and  is likely a figment of someone's imagination who had no knowledge of real ships.   One example, if any ship actually had turrets in the stern like on your model, there would not have been the four cannon in those turrets as there is no room for the carriages or people to work them.   A quick search on the internet showed the red crosses on the sails are similar to that used by the Portuguese.  Dragon figure heads are more akin to Scandinavian vessels.   If you do a search here at MSW, you will find a bunch of these mass produced pieces about which folks have made enquiries and may find additional information that could be interesting for you.

If you do want to refurbish it, go for it.  It could wind up as it was meant to be, a fun decoration for your home. 

Allan

 

[amateur]

My guess is a german produced decorator model from the first quuarter of the century. Somewhere around 1925.

going by the sails and the ‘dragon’ I guess it was sold under the name ‘Santa Maria’

 

Jan

[Eurus]

It does not look like it is a model or replica or any real ship, since its proportions and elements are all wrong. There is considerable "artistic license", like the weird mix of styles and elements from different cultures. Some of these are outright fantasy, like the multi-gun turrets and in general the design of the poop deck--which looks more like a fairytale house than part of a ship. I have never seen roof tiles on a ship. That backwards-pointing mast is also quite strange.

 

As mentioned before, this looks more like folk art designed as ornamentation. Restoration might only be worthwhile if you like it a lot, or if it has some sentimental value.

[Keith Black]

 OD, welcome to MSW. It's likely a prewar decorative model made in Bavaria. I think they're best suited for a child's decor, bright and fanciful. Their only historically significance is they created a interest in building model ships by those same kids whose imaginations were carried to far away places.

[captain_hook]

Well, this is the coolest part of the ship. 
 

[allanyed]

Eurus,   I have never seen a roof at the stern itself like on this model and agree with you that if there was an aft deckhouse it would probably not have roof tiles.  But, as they are shown on the galleries, this was typical on many, if not most, British war ships in the 18th century.   A couple examples of contemporary models on display at Preble Hall are below.

Allan

 

Edited July 23, 2021 by allanyed

[Eurus]

4 hours ago, allanyed said:

Eurus,   I have never seen a roof at the stern itself like on this model and agree with you that if there was an aft deckhouse it would probably not have roof tiles.  But, as they are shown on the galleries, this was typical on many, if not most, British war ships in the 18th century.   A couple examples of contemporary models on display at Preble Hall are below.

Allan

 

Allan, you're right. I always thought those were carved wood ornaments, part of the decoration and not actual roof tiles--more like the sculptures or the other patterns--but I have never seen them up close, so I stand corrected.

 

Still, the tiles and arrangement of the mystery model looks unrealistic from a naval perspective.

[allanyed]

Eurus

There is not much about that model that is realistic, but those decorator models were, well, just that, decorator models.

Allan

[allanyed]

Eurus,

They look like roof tiles but I THINK they are as much  about deco as functionality.   17th century and early 18th century galleries had solid tops on their galleries, but they were still roofs of a sort with other styles of decoration instead of tiles.   Maybe the tiles do act as some protection from the elements as well as being a decoration.   For modeling purposes I have mostly seen them carved from a solid piece but I remember seeing one or two from individual shingles.     FYI, the earliest I can find of this style on contemporary models is 1740 but could have been used before that.  I could find none with this construction before 1720.

Allan

[Louie da fly]

Welcome to MSW, OmegaDragon!

 

If you do want to restore this model, do a search under the word "restoration" or "restoring" (the search bar is at the top right of this page). You'll see quite a few nice restorations of old models, including decorator models, which should give you some good ideas. Given that these models are now about 100 years old, they form a historical artefact in their own right and are perhaps worth fixing up just because of that.

 

Good to have you aboard!

 

Steven

Edited July 26, 2021 by Louie da fly

[Tony Hunt]

This is the Schlüsselfeld model, made in 1503 (Germanisches Nationalmuseum, Nürnberg, HG2146, Leihgabe der Johann Carl von Schlüsselfelder)

 

Looks a bit similar!  But yes, I think this is a decorative model.

 

[OmegaDragon01]

Wow! So that explains why I couldn't find much about this ship, haha! I wanted to say thank you all so so much for all of the great info! Seriously, I was hoping for SOMETHING about this ship and ended up with WAY more than I expected. You guys are amazingly knowledgeable!

 

Right now, my time is very limited so I'm gonna put this baby in a dry, cool storage area and once things settle down, I think this would be a cool project to work on with one/all of my kids.

 

Thanks again everyone! I'm happy to be a part of the community and hopefully you'll be hearing from me again soon!

[amateur]

I checked the schlusselfeld Modell.

 

kind of carrack. Dating from 1503, 80 centimeters high, almost 6 kilos silver. 

 

 

Jan

Edited July 27, 2021 by amateur