Gun Port Yellow?

[Dave_E]

Hi All,

 

I had a paint scheme worked out for the Lady Nelson and I bought a set of paints for The "Mars" from Caldercraft. But after a sample aplication on the same kind of wood (walnut), the Ocre yellow isn't what I thought it would be... it's more of an orange color that yellow I think. Also the paint that is labelled "dull Black" sure isn't too dull after the second coat. See pictures below.

 

So what color is the brighter yellow that is used in Nelsons Navy for the gunport areas? What brand also perhaps? Thanks

Edited February 27, 2022 by Dave_E

[mtaylor]

I'm using Vallejo Yellow Ochre 70.913 on my Sphinx build.  Doesn't look too bright in normal light but photos with a flash seems to "brighten" it up a bit.  Here's a pic of the stern area.  The Ochre was used there on all the carvings and also on area between the blue and black on the hull sides. 

 

[Dave_E]

Thanks Mark, 

 

I’m setting the pictures up side by side on the computer to compare. 🙂

They are REALLY close. If I put the paint coupon up to the light it gets brighter like yours did with the flash. I guess I'll go with it unles someone has another suggestion. 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Dave_E

[allanyed]

 I suggest using good quality artist tubed acrylics rather than bottled paints.  I have used both over the years and there is no comparison in quality and consistency.   Liquitex Professional Heavy Body  is my personal paint of choice and comes in a full range of colors including yellow ocre.  You can darken it with some burnt umber or lighten it with titanium white as you wish.

Allan 

[wefalck]

In the 18th century various yellow pigments were available also in quantities that would have permitted to paint ships with it:

 

Naples Yellow - Pb(SbO3)2 or Pb3(SbO4)2 - which is a very bright yellow, e.g. Vallejo 70.953 (or RLM4),

Lead-tin Yellow - Pb2SnO4 - also a bright yellow, and

Yellow Ochre - FeOOH (but contains a mixture of differen iron oxihydroxides)

 

One would need to find some information, what kind of pigments the Admiralty actually prescribed.

 

Vallejo, btw. was originally a manufacturer of artists' paints and then branched out into offering modelling paints. I found the pigment in their 'Model Air' range, pre-thinned for airbrushing, extremely finely dispersed.

 

[David Lester]

Hi Dave,

I have quite a few of the admiralty paints and I think they're great. I was also a bit surprised by the yellow ochre at first, but I think when you see it on the hull and contrasting only with the black it will look quite yellow and more like you expected.  As to the black, I'm pretty sure "dull black" doesn't refer to the finish, as in matte or flat, but rather to the colour, meaning it is just slightly off a true deep black.

 

One frustration I've had is that so many model paints are only available in two finishes - either flat or glossy and for many purposes, especially the hull, neither seems right. These admiralty paints have a very nice soft satin finish that I like quite a bit.

 

David

[Gregory]

1 hour ago, wefalck said:

One would need to find some information, what kind of pigments the Admiralty actually prescribed.

To what extent did Captains try to follow Admiralty recommendations with regard to paint color..

 

In the end, Dave is the captain of this ship.😀

Edited February 27, 2022 by Gregory

[glbarlow]

I am a fan of Admiralty paints. The yellow and red ochre along with Dull and Ironworks Black look great in combination on my Vanguard and Pickle. The Ironworks Black actually looks great on wood, it covers the boom and yards on my Cheerful and Pegasus as it will on Flirt when I go back to its rigging. I like not only the color but how easily it goes on and covers. 

[wefalck]

I often often give the actual paint coat a make over with acrylic varnish to pull everything together and to adjust the sheen - not every surface has the same sheen (as some small-scale modellers seem to prefer), depending on what kind of paint was used on the original. Vallejeo, for instance offers, gloss, satin, and matt acrylic varnish, which behave slightly differently, whether applied by paintbrush or airbrush and one can also adjust the sheen by mixing them. This would work for other brands too, of course.

[wefalck]

15 minutes ago, Gregory said:

To what extent did Captains try to follow Admiralty recommendations with regard to paint color..

 

In the end, Dave is the captain of this ship.😀

The dockyards supplied the annual allowance of pigment to the ships and ships were expected to repaint twice a year according to:

 

Vale, B. (2020): Pitch, Paint, Varnish and the Changing Colour Schemes of Royal Navy Warship, 1775-1815: A Summary of Existing Knowlege.- The Mariner’s Mirror, 106(1): 30-42.    

 

So they had to use the pigment given to them, but the coloured pigment was usually mixed with e.g. lead-white to increase the covering intensity and to make it cover a larger surface area. Within limits, captains were allowed to deviate from the colour schemes as long as they stayed within the allowances. Any extra material they had to pay for from their own pockets (or squeeze out of the food allowances for the crews).

[glbarlow]

30 minutes ago, wefalck said:

often often give the actual paint coat a make over

Can you add in your signature line links to your completed models, I’m sure many of us would like to see them. 

[wefalck]

Thanks for asking, Glenn, in the signature line there is a link to my own Web-site 'Maritima-et-Mechanika'. There are not that many ...

[Dave_E]

12 minutes ago, wefalck said:

Thanks for asking, Glenn, in the signature line there is a link to my own Web-site 'Maritima-et-Mechanika'. There are not that many ...

VERY NICE site Wefalk! Thanks for pointing that out. 👍😀

[starlight]

Dave,

 

Lots of good advice here for you in this thread. Admiralty paints are well liked by many, so it's a shame that they're not working for you. Keep in mind that "ochre" denotes an iron oxide earth pigment, so all ochre paints are supposed to look darker. There are lots of bright yellow pigments for you to choose from if that's what you prefer.

 

I would just add in two things:

• You may have heard of the "scale color effect" (here is a good explanation of it: http://www.009.cd2.com/members/how_to/colour.htm). Colors that are too intense can give your model a toy-like appearance.
• Be wary of comparing colors on your monitor, since they will almost never reflect what the paint looks like in reality. Your best bet is to buy a small bottle and test. Fortunately, paints are fairly inexpensive, even for my meagre student budget. 

 

3 hours ago, wefalck said:

In the 18th century various yellow pigments were available also in quantities that would have permitted to paint ships with it:

 

Naples Yellow - Pb(SbO3)2 or Pb3(SbO4)2 - which is a very bright yellow, e.g. Vallejo 70.953 (or RLM4),

Lead-tin Yellow - Pb2SnO4 - also a bright yellow, and

Yellow Ochre - FeOOH (but contains a mixture of differen iron oxihydroxides)

 

wefalck, I see your posts all throughout this site and I always seem to learn something new from them. Am much indebted to you for your wealth of knowledge.

 

-starlight

[Dave_E]

Thank You All for the input. I put on a “wash coat” last night before bed. All it takes is a day, can’t explain it as I walked into the yard this morning and WOW, the first thinned coat looked great. In fact if I was building a “weathered, in dire need of a refit” ship, I could leave the first coat alone and go for it. I’m very positive after the second coat (maybe a third if I have to), it will look like I thought it should. 😀

 

 

[Oldsalt1950]

There are many good acrylic paints on the market, and if you are lucky a local store will carry some of them. I have a "Michael's" close by so I can just pop on over and look at the various colors and brands and pick and choose. A tube of Grumbach's only runs about $8.00 and will last through more builds than I'll be capable of during my lifetime, unless of course I apply it with a trowel.

Jim