Lady Nelson by JGoff - Amati/Victory Models - 1:64 - First Ship Build

[JGoff]

Yes…I’m still working on getting everything sanded. Was able to get them cut out and shaped this weekend. Still much more work to do to finish that before I can move forward. 

[JGoff]

I don’t know if I should have paid more attention to the grain of the balsa, but it has been a heck of a time getting it shaved/sanded down. In the process, I suppose there has been a good deal of hull fairing in the fore and aft bulkheads (did I use that terminology correctly) After sanding and filing the top, I was able to get the false deck installed. I would feel remiss if I did not include the necessary photo of the clamp army holding down the deck.

 

I did get my Stanley plane in and you may can see on the right of the photo the results of me playing around with it on a balsa strip. I haven’t used it yet on the LN, but I’ll expect that I will need it when I get to the masts.

 

There are a few points about fairing the hull that I have questions about. I’ll be posting some more photos soon, and hopefully my apprehension about this process might be alleviated.

 

 

[JGoff]

I came across this series of videos on the LN while browsing the Amati website. In particular, the fourth video demonstrates the fairing process.  It seems helpful for visualizing  the fairing process. 

Edited April 12, 2022 by JGoff

[drjeckl]

Jonathon, Welcome aboard MSW and to the LN builders.  One caution on those Amati videos (there are about 20 of them).  The guy doing the build, was Leon Griffiths from Model Shipyard, a master builder.  I followed most of his techniques rather than those found here, to my detriment.  After getting myself in a hole (needed to rip off the first 5 planks, port and starboard, of the first planking) the advice I got here straightened me out.  What I'm saying is Leon didn't explain to the detail I needed and probably you will need also.  I thoroughly read several times some of the experienced builder's LN logs, including Glenn's.  Take your time and really understand what they writing about before you try it yourself.  It will save you a lot of aggravation, which you have already experienced.

 

I've been on medical leave since September but may get back into the big show in a month or so.  But take a read on Freezing Parrott's LN Build log, 

post #2, where I gave him some places to go to get the information that I found extremely helpful.  And poke about some of the other forums that deal with specific topics in the Shop Notes, Ship Modeling Tips, Techniques and Research section.  And the best advice passed down to me here and I'll pass it to you is: Treat every single item you do (bulkhead, plank, etc.) as a separate project, and do your best on each of those projects, and you'll be fine.  Good luck.

 

 

[JGoff]

2 hours ago, drjeckl said:

Jonathon, Welcome aboard MSW and to the LN builders.  One caution on those Amati videos (there are about 20 of them).  The guy doing the build, was Leon Griffiths from Model Shipyard, a master builder.  I followed most of his techniques rather than those found here, to my detriment.  After getting myself in a hole (needed to rip off the first 5 planks, port and starboard, of the first planking) the advice I got here straightened me out.  What I'm saying is Leon didn't explain to the detail I needed and probably you will need also.  I thoroughly read several times some of the experienced builder's LN logs, including Glenn's.  Take your time and really understand what they writing about before you try it yourself.  It will save you a lot of aggravation, which you have already experienced.

 

I've been on medical leave since September but may get back into the big show in a month or so.  But take a read on Freezing Parrott's LN Build log, 

post #2, where I gave him some places to go to get the information that I found extremely helpful.  And poke about some of the other forums that deal with specific topics in the Shop Notes, Ship Modeling Tips, Techniques and Research section.  And the best advice passed down to me here and I'll pass it to you is: Treat every single item you do (bulkhead, plank, etc.) as a separate project, and do your best on each of those projects, and you'll be fine.  Good luck.

 

 

Thanks drjeckl! I actually recall your post perusing through some of the build logs when I first started, and I appreciate you taking the time to check out my log. I believe there were only 8 of those short/partial videos on the Amati website, and when I checked the model shipyard website, I could purchase a DVD set for $60 with the full instructional videos. Perhaps the fact that I no longer own a DVD player saved me from making the purchase. What was useful though for me was his explanation and demonstration of fairing, which I haven't really been able to find from casually searching for information on the fairing process here (which I'm still sort of stuck on). 

 

Yesterday, I set up a planking station and started trying out Chuck's method for bending planks (though I am not ready to start planking at the moment). I am going to have find some information on where the proper bend in the plank is supposed to be since I screwed that up twice, and evidently did not fully understand or implement Chuck's instruction properly. Now I did not do a taper on the first plank (which I was experimenting with a first plank as if I was ready to do it), since I had read somewhere that the first couple of planks did not require a taper on this model. So I either should have done a taper on the plank, or I most certainly created the bend in the wrong place. I recall @glbarlow posting that somewhere in response to another log, but haven't found it again yet. It might be prudent to start keeping a separate journal to record good information that I read, so I can remember the details! 

 

So for the moment, I continue fairing. It seems that every time I leave the LN for a moment thinking that the fairing is done, I come back to it and realize there are some spots that need more work. I did want to feel a little visual movement forward, so I went ahead and glued the outside stern counter frames which seem to need a little sanding to conform fully to the hull and allow for the bulwark to have a tight fit towards the stern.

[drjeckl]

17 hours ago, JGoff said:

I believe there were only 8 of those short/partial videos on the Amati websit

Sorry, I was referring to Amati's FB location where I found around 20.  Yeah, my point was only use that site to see things being accomplished, not necessarily how to do it.

17 hours ago, JGoff said:

explanation and demonstration of fairing

Have you gone through the https://modelshipworld.com/forum/14-building-framing-planking-and-plating-a-ships-hull-and-deck/ forum?  Very good place to start.  Plus YouTube.

17 hours ago, JGoff said:

Now I did not do a taper on the first plank

I did not taper my 1st plank.

17 hours ago, JGoff said:

It might be prudent to start keeping a separate journal to record good information

Just bookmark it.

17 hours ago, JGoff said:

went ahead and glued the outside stern counter frames

Not sure this was a good idea since all builds I've seen have this coming after the first planking.  Not that your taking an alternate path may still work; it's only the 1st planking.  But being a rookie, such as I am, taking alternate paths may lead to alternate destinations.  Best to take the worn path.

 

Here's something I cooked and posted in Kirby's LN log that may give you some idea, after you have a tapering plan, Post 19:

 

Listen, I appreciate where you may have been a bit stand-offish after installing the bulkheads from taking the more difficult path, the 1st planking, and installed the frames.  But at this point, you have no choice but to start it, so jump in.  What's the worst thing that can happen?  You eventually have to rip it and others off and have to start over?  Happened to me and I'm sure others.  But I got through it and I'm finished painting (2 coats primer, 3 coats of paint; photos not yet posted) my double-planked hull.  Check some of my posts in the Framing,... forum.  The best I like is:

 

Yeah, I got around that.

 

Again, all I'm saying is have a plan and then execute it.  And don't stray to far from the worn path.  You can do it.

 

Edited April 18, 2022 by drjeckl

[KirbysLunchBox]

Welcome to the forum and good luck on your build!  It can be frustrating at times, but the reward is worth your effort. 

[allanyed]

Hi JG

There are many places to learn about planking properly, but many members (including me) think a couple of the best and the easiest are here at MSW on the Antscherl spiling piece, Passaro's lining out piece in the Articles data base and Passaro's 3 part video on You Tube.  They are not so difficult and they work.  For example, your strakes at the stern should run to the stern post rabbet. not the bearding line.  I may be wrong on this if you are double planking, but if you look at a contemporary planking expansion drawing you will see how they should lay.  Just go to the RMG Collections site and type in planking expansion plans on the search box.   There are 16 expansion drawings some of which show both outboard and inboard planking.

https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/search/planking expansion drawing

Cheers

 

Allan

[JGoff]

6 hours ago, drjeckl said:

Listen, I appreciate where you may have been a bit stand-offish after installing the bulkheads from taking the more difficult path, the 1st planking, and installed the frames.

Hey John, thanks for your taking time to respond. I haven’t yet installed the bulwarks, and so I thought to install the frames so that when I do install the bulwarks, I can attach those properly. I may not be naming those pieces correctly.

 

6 hours ago, drjeckl said:

But at this point, you have no choice but to start it, so jump in.

I’ve started to come around to this. I believe that I have faired the frames sufficiently, and really the best way to understand the process is to see the result for what it is supposed to accomplish and just start planking…once I get those bulwarks taken care of. I’ll take care of that this evening and start moving forward on the planking. One thing about the planking is that when I take a test plank and lay it across three bulkheads, everything lays properly. When I add a fourth bulkhead to the mix and hold the plank at either end, I start to see some gaps until I lay more fingers down on the plank. Everything seems ready to go and then I might overthink the issue. So I am just gonna have to start, and I’ll check out those posts you sent me.

 

3 hours ago, allanyed said:

There are many places to learn about planking properly, but many members (including me) think a couple of the best and the easiest are here at MSW on the Antscherl spiling piece, Passaro's lining out piece in the Articles data base and Passaro's 3 part video on You Tube.  They are not so difficult and they work.  For example, your strakes at the stern should run to the stern post rabbet. not the bearding line.  I may be wrong on this if you are double planking, but if you look at a contemporary planking expansion drawing you will see how they should lay.  Just go to the RMG Collections site and type in planking expansion plans on the search box.   There are 16 expansion drawings some of which show both outboard and inboard planking.

https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/search/planking expansion drawing

Thanks for the advice, Allan. I hadn’t thought to check out those drawings. And I’ll be double planking so my thought was that the first planking would extend to the bearding line and the second planking to the stern post rabbet? Otherwise I might end up sanding the most of stern down to accommodate the thickness of both layers of planking to be flush with the stern post, yes? I haven’t yet done much reading on the bearding line and rabbet, but it’s on the list of things I need to study. 

 

3 hours ago, KirbysLunchBox said:

Welcome to the forum and good luck on your build!  It can be frustrating at times, but the reward is worth your effort. 

Thanks Kirby! It has definitely had its share of frustrations thus far, but I do enjoy the process and seeing the little transformations. Plus, I’ve been finding myself reading more about the period and naval warfare, which - along with Aubrey - supplies some motivation.

[JGoff]

It is hard to believe it has been 2 years since my last post here, although I have certainly not been absent. I put Lady Nelson on hold and decided to work on the Half-Hull Planking Project which was enormously helpful in getting over the planking hurdle I was having. 


There is much that can be improved, so we shall see I can continue to improve my planking skills with Lady Nelson. Understanding that this is the 1st planking, I am not overly concerned with attempting excellence for the first layer, simply dabbing a little water on the areas of the planking where I will edge bend them and gently bending the planks using my fingers which has so far been sufficient to the task. I am just building a base for my second planking. Here are the results so far with the first band. 
 

Edited July 24 by JGoff

[JGoff]

I have finished the first planking and have done some sanding. There were some difficulties at the bow and stern areas that betrayed my fairing job. I had to do a little more sanding and shem some bulkheads will definitely need some filler. 
 

I started using minwax wood filler on the starboard side, and I’m not sure if is the best filler for the job?  It tends to be very flaky but this may not matter much? At any rate, I just received some goodfillas neutral filler so I’ll use that on the port side and compare. 

Here are some photos after some sanding. 

 

[JGoff]

I have planked above the wales with some remaining basswood I had from the Half-Hull Project. It is probably not ideal compared to boxwood or Alaskan Yellow Cedar, but I like the yellow-ish color when it has a few coats of WOP. For the remaining planking, I'll use the kit supplied walnut. I did like the contrast that I noted in glbarlow's Lady Nelson, and that is the effect I am going for here. Dealing with the gunports was more challenging than I had expected, and had I planned a little better, I would have marked the gunports and such to precut before applying the planks. Since that it was not what I did, I made some cuts with #11 blade and did a lot of filing.

Once I had the planking completed above the wales, I decided to take a break on the hull and move on to planking the deck. I have agonized over whether or not I would do a proper deck planking with waterways, tapering and joggling of the planks. In the end, however, I decided to simply go with a 4-butt shift using a 6B graphite pencil to simulate the caulking. I think for a future builds, I will go through the extra work and make some purchases of higher quality wood. With the kit supplied deck planking, I had to do a lot of sanding to smooth out the edges. I do not know if this typical. Perhaps with .6mm thick plank, the cuts are not so clean in production? At any rate, sanded and marked, I completed the planking with Minwax "weathered oak". The picture makes it appear darker than it is, and it probably too dark for my liking now that the work is done. Overall, I am pleased with the result but also look forward to future improvements. 

Planking the inner-bulwarks is proving to be a bit of a challenge. I am using the jig that I made for bending the bulwark strips, as well as a bit of water and a travel iron to form the plank. However, the plank is still proving a little difficult to set, which makes me think that I made need to compensate a bit more and exaggerate the bend some water and my fingers to set it. I think for now, though, I am going to go back to the hull and finish the 2nd planking.

Thanks for tuning in and for the likes. 

[JGoff]

Just a brief update since a lot of time has passed since my last post.  I have completed the port side planking. 
 

[JGoff]

I have completed the planking! After sanding and a coat of WOP, there are a few things I need to tidy up. I’m not sure how to address the planks at the bow. It is not very clean and would have benefitted from a rabbet, which I did not do two years ago when I first started. 
 

A few things to note with the planking. I’m impatient, and it shows. While my planking bands did a good job establishing the run of the planks, I did not take the additional time to measure out the distance between each, which resulted in different width planks for each band. 
 

The second thing was that within each band, while I did have tick marks using the planking fan, I was not very scrupulous in making sure my measurement with the compass translated to an accurate cut on the plank. 
 

I think perhaps the source of my impatience may be with this particular build, as it has been a two year project with a long interlude in between before picking it back up. Planking was an early hurdle for me, nearly tanked the build, but the NRG planking project really helped to clear that. So while it is not the best planking, it is a relief to be able to move forward with other aspects of the build.  
 

And finally I should mention that I find the process of planking somewhat enjoyable at times. After a busy workday, it offers a good cleanse of the mental palette as it offers a singular point of focus. I think with my next build, it will be important to dedicate time to improving my planking skills. 

 

[Thukydides]

It is looking good. As with all skills you get better with practice.

 

I find if you take your time and are not afraid to redo things that are not quite up to standard, you may surprise yourself with what you can achieve.

[JGoff]

Thanks for the encouragement Thukydides. Watching your build, I see the value of redoing and improving. 
 

I do have a question. Looking for some insight on whether I made a mistake and what I might do to make this work correctly. The stern fascia does not sit flush against the outer stern counter frames leaving a considerable gap. 

So to correct this, it seems that I’ll either need to add some wood to extend the counter frame or to sand a considerable amount to bring everything together. 
 

When I add the capping rail, it does not extend all the way either. So I can only think I may not have installed the outer counter frame correctly. 

[Gregory]

Not much of a gap.  If it were me, I would sand away until everything fits.

[JGoff]

I was able to get the stern fascia worked out after sanding as much as would comfort would allow and am pleased with the result. The sanding did result in a slight more upright stern fascia than what angle of the counter frames seemed to suggest. 

No fuss in adding the main and upper wale, and I have added two coats of WOP to the basswood. The first coat I did with an old t-shirt, and it caught some red paint on the gunport causing it to smear a little. I used my handy xacto #11 to scrape it out, lightly sanded and added the second coat. I’m debating on whether or not to paint all white below the main wale or just below the waterline as the plans call for.  Finally, I have started fiddling with deck fittings, and as noted on other logs, the bowsprit support is situated too high, so I have taken it down a notch. I need to plug the hole for the peg and drill another one.

Before I mount anything, I am working out how to mount to the base and have purchased some 2mm brass rod. I may post more on that later. 

 

A little more fiddling to do with the deck fittings but my next significant effort will be to start blackening the brass parts. There are an abundant of posts and discussions on this, but have settled on attempting this method from Greg (Hebert - I think): 

 

As always, thanks for dropping by.

 

 

[Nirvana]

John, I just finished reading your build log and you have done really good recovery of the build.
I understand the feeling of having a model or two just waiting to be continued, looking good and I like your work set up with the windows.

Here is one suggestion regarding the stand and the brass rod.

I did use brass rod and brass tube for my longboat. 
The rod was inserted in drilled holes in the boat and the tube on the stand.
Take a look at my finished boat in the gallery below.

 

All the best to you. 

[JGoff]

1 hour ago, Nirvana said:

John, I just finished reading your build log and you have done really good recovery of the build.
I understand the feeling of having a model or two just waiting to be continued, looking good and I like your work set up with the windows.

Here is one suggestion regarding the stand and the brass rod.

I did use brass rod and brass tube for my longboat. 
The rod was inserted in drilled holes in the boat and the tube on the stand.
Take a look at my finished boat in the gallery below.

Thank you for taking the time to check out my log, Dr. Per, and I appreciate the kind words. That’s a beautiful little build you have and good to see that the brass rods provide good stability!

[JGoff]

I took some time to try and figure out how to do make the slots on the cathead. With a 3mm wide piece of kit supplied walnut, it was difficult to properly set my drill bit without splitting the wood.  I had the idea then to create a shallow channel with the dremel on a low setting which worked beautifully on a scrap piece of walnut. I tried a few different times until I was able to have satisfactory results which you can see here.
 

I then set to the task of working on the actual cat heads and the first went well, but on the second one…not so much. The wood practically disintegrated. 
 

 As a result, I find myself at a crossroads. My goal with this ship, in part, was to work out of the box while making a few improvements. I wanted to get a basic handle on some of the fundamentals, planking and rigging. Since moving on to the deck furniture, I lost a post for the piece that is placed at the foot of the mast, so I had to make another one. That turned out ok. For the bowsprit support, I did some general shaping of the ends and lowered the support to accommodate the bowsprit. And for the most part, I’ve been happy to attempt to modify a few pieces. 
 

In this build process, my thoughts have gradually shifted into making a few more improvements. I’m considering taking the plunge and ordering the new blocks from Chuck and line from Ropes of Scale. I ordered some 3lber cannons from Chris Watton, as well. At this point I’m wondering if maybe I should order some wood sheets, maybe boxwood or cherry, and just scratch build the deck furniture, including the windlass. 
 

I’m not sure yet how I’ll proceed, but it may be good to go ahead and order some wood. While I wait I can start working on the cannons to keep the project moving. 

 

Thanks all for dropping by. The likes are appreciated. 
 

 

Edited July 24 by JGoff

[Thukydides]

Great job. This is how it starts, as you skills improve you start to realize with just a little bit more effort you could improve that other thing as well. Before you know it you are kitbashing everything.

[AgesOfSail]

Johnathan, just wanted to chime in about your build. It's looking really great!

 

You'd commented that you were thinking about how to paint the ship's bottom. But, I'm just wondering if you'd thought about leaving it natural. I know that makes it a little more decorative rather than "by the book", but your model's wood finish is looking so nice.

 

Looking forward to seeing your progress.

[JGoff]

1 hour ago, AgesOfSail said:

Johnathan, just wanted to chime in about your build. It's looking really great!

Thank you for the compliment. I have not really considered leaving the hull natural, but I may now give it a think. 

[JGoff]

5 hours ago, Thukydides said:

Great job. This is how it starts, as you skills improve you start to realize with just a little bit more effort you could improve that other thing as well. Before you know it you are kitbashing everything.

Thanks Thukydides! We shall see where the journey leads! Much to figure out and see what plans or logs I can utilize for scratching some of these parts. 

[glbarlow]

I’d suggest getting some better wood for the cat heads and anything else from the Modelers Sawmill, a partner listed on top page. The wood in my Lady Nelson was ridiculously old and brittle. I also scratch made the windlass as the one included is hopelessly out of scale, simple to do and a good learning skill. I also use brass pedestals along with brass rods for mounting. I drill the necessary holes in the keel very early in the build, I’d recommend doing them before getting to far in deck furniture installation. 
 

Your first build is just that, an opportunity to learn and practice new skills. As others have said, the willingness to tear it off and do it over is a first step towards success. And, remember doing this fun. 

[JGoff]

On 7/25/2024 at 10:17 AM, glbarlow said:

I’d suggest getting some better wood for the cat heads and anything else from the Modelers Sawmill, a partner listed on top page.

Thank you, Glenn, and I appreciate the advice. 

[JGoff]

I ordered 1/8" cherry sheet from Modeller's Sawmill so that I could begin scratch building the deck furnishings, and it came in at 3.47 mm thick. With a little sanding, I'll get it closer to 3mm. Joe was also kind of enough to include a sample of both Boxwood and Alaskan Yellow Cedar, of which I have planned use for my next build.

 

My goal is to rebuild the deck furnishings as they are in the kit but with a wood that is not going to disintegrate on me. However, as I got to measuring and attempting to cut out the pieces, I found that using the x-acto blade to slice through 3.47 mm wood sheet was not going to be very efficient. Each cut has to be perfectly perpendicular or else there will be angular cut, which in my case, was exactly what happened. My answer was going to be in a fret saw. Not very expensive, but a vice would be helpful for stability, which I do not have...yet. So what the heck, let's just give it a whirl and see how I do! That also proved difficult on a first try...similar issues, and I thought that perhaps I could make it work, but will need to cut wide and get the final shaping with sanding. After taking a night to mull it over, the Admiral suggested the use of the laser printer, which we have and it would at least provide for precise cutting.  Mind you, I've never used the laser printer...that is the Admiral's domain. The program used to produce the shapes are pretty straightforward, though to do more "shaping" of the pieces seems to require a bit more skill on my part; nevertheless, after measuring out the basic shapes for the cathead, swivel gun posts, bowsprit support, crossbeam, mast bits, and pawl post, I designed those for the laser printer programming and made the first attempt with a piece of acrylic to make sure the cuts would have the precision I needed. That worked well here are the results with the cherry along with the previous pieces, acrylic and my drawings/measurements [with caliper].

 

Obviously, I'll need to get the x-acto blade out to do some carving and shaping as these are very much unfinished, and I still have to determine how best to make the bowsprit support side frames and windlass. I am starting to take a look at the rigging plan using Lennarth Petersson, and if I use that as my guide, there will need to be some modification or reconstruction of the windlass. Also, ordered  the sample pack from Ropes of Scale to help my future purchase from them for the rigging, particular to see the difference in the colors available. 

 

[JGoff]

Slow progress this past week, but I have built out the companionway and crossbeam/mast bits. 
 

For the companionway, I took some inspiration from HM Trial. I used my #11 blade and cut out the various pieces from a 1/16” sheet of cherry. I thought it would make it more interesting to scribe wood planks and doors, etched with a pencil to make it more pronounced. I feel like it it might be too pronounced? After a few coats of WOP, I do think this as an overall improvement and am content to leave these natural. 
 

Here are the results alongside the original pieces. 
 

I’ve dry fitted a few of the pieces to see how it all goes together. 

Thanks everyone for the likes and comments. I appreciate you stopping by. 

 

[JGoff]

After purchasing a vise from the local hardware store, I decided to give the fret saw another go. I found that I needed to adjust a few things from the laser file for the bowsprit support, so instead of doing that I just used the fret saw to cut new pieces. While it is still challenging to get a perfectly straight cut, sandpaper came to the rescue. 

I used files to create the grooves and the beveling, and for the peg that will be inserted into the bowsprit, I used a 2mm drill bit and clamped the pieces into the vise to help with making sure I didn’t split the wood. Here is the difference: